I know this is diyaudio but i hoping i can get some help with a buying advice.
My company has a big meeting room (hard floors, office type of ceiling tiles, lots of glass windows (top to bottom) and about half with interior walls.
In one end we have a projector with a decent size screen where we hold company meetings (with zoom for remote employees). we use round 6" speakers (four) flush mounted in the ceiling tile for sound, both amplifying the voice of the speakers as well as to hear people on zoom.
The sound is absolutely dreadful. We often do happy hour after company events and i put on playlists from spotify but its terrible.
I'd like to get a decent set of speakers (on floor or in ceiling) that can be used for both voice (PA) and music for happy hour. It does not need to be super loud (We're not dancing) but decently volume is needed.
Any idea what to buy? I was tempted to rush over to best buy and get some klipsch monkey coffins for a few hundred bucks but decided i should first check with you all for ideas?
I have the amp, a regular onkyo amp that seems decent and i'm donating my personal hometheather powered subwoofer to them (i've upgraded).
So any ideas on speakers you think are good for this usage? I can go up to lets say $1,000 or $1,500 but we are scrappy -cheaper is better...
thanks a bunch!
My company has a big meeting room (hard floors, office type of ceiling tiles, lots of glass windows (top to bottom) and about half with interior walls.
In one end we have a projector with a decent size screen where we hold company meetings (with zoom for remote employees). we use round 6" speakers (four) flush mounted in the ceiling tile for sound, both amplifying the voice of the speakers as well as to hear people on zoom.
The sound is absolutely dreadful. We often do happy hour after company events and i put on playlists from spotify but its terrible.
I'd like to get a decent set of speakers (on floor or in ceiling) that can be used for both voice (PA) and music for happy hour. It does not need to be super loud (We're not dancing) but decently volume is needed.
Any idea what to buy? I was tempted to rush over to best buy and get some klipsch monkey coffins for a few hundred bucks but decided i should first check with you all for ideas?
I have the amp, a regular onkyo amp that seems decent and i'm donating my personal hometheather powered subwoofer to them (i've upgraded).
So any ideas on speakers you think are good for this usage? I can go up to lets say $1,000 or $1,500 but we are scrappy -cheaper is better...
thanks a bunch!
Seems like the acoustics are terrible. Decent in-ceiling speakers (all running in mono, series-parallel,
carefully located) may very well be the best choice, since they can each be close to a group of listeners.
How large is the room, and how many people?
carefully located) may very well be the best choice, since they can each be close to a group of listeners.
How large is the room, and how many people?
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I forgot some crucial data. The room as about 1,200 square feet. A rectangle half the width vs the length (narrow and long). The projector is at one end. I would be fine with a tall line array.
We host up to 60 people in that room, probably more over the. There isn't much furniture, a couple of tables and chairs. We use it as the lunch break room at other times.
We host up to 60 people in that room, probably more over the. There isn't much furniture, a couple of tables and chairs. We use it as the lunch break room at other times.
Maybe, but the
Current ones must be cheapest of the cheap, nasal voice-only so nothing under 200-250Hz or above 5kHz but there are very good ones available, even Hi Fi types.
Even good car door types can do,they are designed to work well in a shallow space.
You might increase quantity to 8 or 16 for more even coverage, when people is close by room acoustics have less importance.
Your main expense will not be speakers themselves but installation.
Remember to respect impedance for each channel, and as suggested above mix Stereo to Mono.
Use Subwoofer when playing Music but tun it OFF when doing mainly voice presentations, you need intelligibility there over anything else.
solution is easier and more predictable.
Current ones must be cheapest of the cheap, nasal voice-only so nothing under 200-250Hz or above 5kHz but there are very good ones available, even Hi Fi types.
Even good car door types can do,they are designed to work well in a shallow space.
You might increase quantity to 8 or 16 for more even coverage, when people is close by room acoustics have less importance.
Your main expense will not be speakers themselves but installation.
Remember to respect impedance for each channel, and as suggested above mix Stereo to Mono.
Use Subwoofer when playing Music but tun it OFF when doing mainly voice presentations, you need intelligibility there over anything else.
What's the ceiling height? Are there around ten round tables for seating?
A ceiling speaker located directly over each table is best.
You want the sound sources to be as close to the listeners as possible in such
a poor acoustical environment. High quality ceiling speakers are the way to go.
Your presentations should be at the center of the long side, not at the narrow end.
People can see the projector much better this way also.
A ceiling speaker located directly over each table is best.
You want the sound sources to be as close to the listeners as possible in such
a poor acoustical environment. High quality ceiling speakers are the way to go.
Your presentations should be at the center of the long side, not at the narrow end.
People can see the projector much better this way also.
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It's about 4 tables, the rest is more of a standing area with tall round bar style tables and no chairs (each table about 2ft across) . I can't put the projector on the long side, kitchen equipment are there and in the opposite side is entrance to bathrooms.
I have in ceiling speakers now but that sound is awful. It could be the quality of the speakers. My concern over in ceiling speakers is that in the center of the room the ceiling is open in a modem style that shows the mechanical equipment. We have a dropped ceiling in the first third and the last third of the room but nothing in the middle. I may be able to mount some wall mount type of speaker there.
Maybe I should take a picture and share so you can see the room.
I have in ceiling speakers now but that sound is awful. It could be the quality of the speakers. My concern over in ceiling speakers is that in the center of the room the ceiling is open in a modem style that shows the mechanical equipment. We have a dropped ceiling in the first third and the last third of the room but nothing in the middle. I may be able to mount some wall mount type of speaker there.
Maybe I should take a picture and share so you can see the room.
Decide on a budget, but a full drop ceiling would allow the ceiling speakers to be properly located close
to the listeners. You shouldn't be married to the present table layout.
An alternative could be to use only half the room for the seating tables near the narrow presentation end,
with better speakers in the ceiling there. Standing tables in back of that. Maybe this is what you have already.
to the listeners. You shouldn't be married to the present table layout.
An alternative could be to use only half the room for the seating tables near the narrow presentation end,
with better speakers in the ceiling there. Standing tables in back of that. Maybe this is what you have already.
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It's a good bet these speakers run off a 70 volt line, with a transformer located at each speaker. This is typical of office building sound reinforcement.
Like this 8" Ceiling Speaker with 70V Transformer for Background Music and Paging
"for background music and paging"
There are 70 volt "hi-fi" speakers, but I bet you're not going to like them either.
You must work at a cool place if they have a budget for speakers, or even allow you to play music.
Like this 8" Ceiling Speaker with 70V Transformer for Background Music and Paging
"for background music and paging"
There are 70 volt "hi-fi" speakers, but I bet you're not going to like them either.
You must work at a cool place if they have a budget for speakers, or even allow you to play music.
Send your home theater subwoofer and Onkyo amplifier to the nearest charity shop; they don't belong in a conference room. If you're doing zoom in a difficult room as you describe, you really need to get some expert advice from a specialist teleconferencing company on getting the acoustics and sound improved. You risk ending up with a whole lot of disinterested participants, or worse the meeting degenerating into a rabble, because it's difficult for people to engage when that can't hear clearly.
With the greatest respect to everyone offering knowledgeable advice here, following advice from a forum is going to be a very long road to a satisfactory solution, and may involve many wrong turns and dead ends.
With the greatest respect to everyone offering knowledgeable advice here, following advice from a forum is going to be a very long road to a satisfactory solution, and may involve many wrong turns and dead ends.
Before anything further can be done, there must be a budget. As I understand post #1,
more equipment would be only for happy hour music etc. This would best be located
in the narrow end opposite the meeting end, and not interface with the meeting equipment
at all. Requirements are very different for meetings and happy hour.
more equipment would be only for happy hour music etc. This would best be located
in the narrow end opposite the meeting end, and not interface with the meeting equipment
at all. Requirements are very different for meetings and happy hour.
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I was in charge of our company 200 seats meeting room AV system rewamping: rectangular shape, newfangled iron floor tiles, glass top to bottom on 3 sides. The obvious issue was room acoustic, it would have been impossible to solve it by replacing the speakers only. To do a quick evaluation, just move around the room, clap the hands and hear the decay time. If the reverberation time is high, a better speaker/amplifier capable of full bandwith reproduction will only make the issue worse, because you will put more energy into the room while nothing stops it from bouncing around. A real solution is not cheap and will be invasive. I managed to get an acceptable compromise by hanging a few hundreds small acoustic PET vertical ceiling panels with quick mount magnetic hooks. They are made of sound adsorbing material that resembles the one stuffed inside speakers, and they look great, surely better than a standard boring office tiled ceiling. They are locally produced and therefore inexpensive, but you will surely find countless types of sound adsorbing products. After taming the obnoxious reflections, I then replaced the original 20-year old ceiling speaker tiles with a few pairs of small 2-way bookshelf speakers plus a commercial home theater subwoofer. It is still very far from a professional solution, but way better looking and sounding than the starting point despite the low budget. Speak is now heard clearly even from the last row of seats and I can play music content without feeling the immediate urge to turn the volume at zero. People not spoiled by the hi-fi virus even dare to say that it sounds "good". The total expense has been the same as the quote for replacement of speakers and amplifier with new brand-name ones, that I believe would have left the issue almost exactly as it was at the beginning. By the way, the magnetic ceiling hooks are great because they require no drilling or tools, anyone can mount them and they are cleanly and easily removable.
Diminishing speaker to listener distance in complicated acoustic environments is a good solution.
FWIW I had to custom make a PA system for the Moscow Circus when they toured Argentina in the 80s, the venue was a 94 meter long (one block) by 45 meters wide (half a block) monster tent made out of 2 normal sized Circus round tents with the "canvas pizza slices" almost horizontal to make a semi circle at each end plus rectangular "truck cover type" canvas strips filling the area between them.
An acoustic nightmare.
I solved it by placing a tall and narrow column containing 8 end to end twin/whizzer cone 6"x9" speakers, vertically oriented, hanging from the roof.
One every 8-10 meters or so all around the perimeter, inclined 45 degrees and each covering an about 8-10 meter section of seats.
Bass was handled by single 15" woofers placed *under* the seats, same distribution.
People *jumped* in their seats when 1812 overture cannons were played, on drum rolls, explosions, etc.
Oh, each column or woofer had its own dedicated 100W amplifier, on a plug-in subchassis, think WW2 Bomber radio, Russians did NOT want large amps driving many cabinets, a failure would kill a large section of seats audio, individual ones failing would affect only a few seats, which would still get some audio from nearby columns on the sides, and be plug-in replaceable even in the middle of the show.
No real time for maintenance , shows run continuously from 13:00 to 23:00 every day and up to 1AM on Saturdays plus extra shows at 10:00 on Saturdays and Sundays with a special programming for toddlers so they needed a basically "fail safe" system.
Russians were very happy with it and took it with them to Mexico, their next Tour leg.
Special note apart for the BEAUTIFUL Russian girls there
, I fell madly in Love with the Écuyére, the Ballet dancer who rides standing on a galloping horse and jumps through rings of fire while performing Ballet moves 😱 😱
FWIW I had to custom make a PA system for the Moscow Circus when they toured Argentina in the 80s, the venue was a 94 meter long (one block) by 45 meters wide (half a block) monster tent made out of 2 normal sized Circus round tents with the "canvas pizza slices" almost horizontal to make a semi circle at each end plus rectangular "truck cover type" canvas strips filling the area between them.
An acoustic nightmare.
I solved it by placing a tall and narrow column containing 8 end to end twin/whizzer cone 6"x9" speakers, vertically oriented, hanging from the roof.
One every 8-10 meters or so all around the perimeter, inclined 45 degrees and each covering an about 8-10 meter section of seats.
Bass was handled by single 15" woofers placed *under* the seats, same distribution.
People *jumped* in their seats when 1812 overture cannons were played, on drum rolls, explosions, etc.
Oh, each column or woofer had its own dedicated 100W amplifier, on a plug-in subchassis, think WW2 Bomber radio, Russians did NOT want large amps driving many cabinets, a failure would kill a large section of seats audio, individual ones failing would affect only a few seats, which would still get some audio from nearby columns on the sides, and be plug-in replaceable even in the middle of the show.
No real time for maintenance , shows run continuously from 13:00 to 23:00 every day and up to 1AM on Saturdays plus extra shows at 10:00 on Saturdays and Sundays with a special programming for toddlers so they needed a basically "fail safe" system.
Russians were very happy with it and took it with them to Mexico, their next Tour leg.
Special note apart for the BEAUTIFUL Russian girls there
, I fell madly in Love with the Écuyére, the Ballet dancer who rides standing on a galloping horse and jumps through rings of fire while performing Ballet moves 😱 😱
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Special note apart for the BEAUTIFUL Russian girls there
I think I should bring out the fact that this a diyaudio forum, so more important than how they look, how do they sound? Were the highs good and smooth, or does it have a shrieking sound? Do they sound nasal?
[emoji6]
On a slightly different note, I observed that circus seem to have largely disappeared from this world. I haven't seen or heard of one in ages. Even cirque de Soleil is now bankrupt if I am not mistaken because of Covid 19... sigh...
Oon
On a more serious note, I have a feeling that you have a very echoy room. Need to dampen the sound a bit.
I once went to a restaurant where they used acoustic foam as decor for their entire ceiling.
In your case, would it be possible to glue acoustic foam using a 3M spray adhesive to the bottom of the table?
Oon
I once went to a restaurant where they used acoustic foam as decor for their entire ceiling.
In your case, would it be possible to glue acoustic foam using a 3M spray adhesive to the bottom of the table?
Oon
Alone in the room. Clap your hands loud. If it takes more than a second for the reverberation to end, add some dead cats (absorption). Good reverb is a mix of highs mids and lows. If it goes shrill at the end, use thin absorption to absorb highs. If it goes boomy at the end.... ah, this won't happen in modern construction, but very thick fuzz behind a perforated panel might help.
Room like you describe, you may need to cover half of more of those hard surfaces. I had a boss bring in $19 of curtains for a large concrete room. Did 'nothing'.
Also consider another room. When I worked at the school, there were certain rooms that I would NOT set up PA in, it would be like salting canned soup.
Room like you describe, you may need to cover half of more of those hard surfaces. I had a boss bring in $19 of curtains for a large concrete room. Did 'nothing'.
Also consider another room. When I worked at the school, there were certain rooms that I would NOT set up PA in, it would be like salting canned soup.
Speaking of salting canned soup, could some judicious EQ be applied to this awful conference room?
We are subletting from the primary tenant and I'm hesitant to make too many changes to the drop ceiling for sound treatments. Ill take a picture tomorrow. Were a startup so scrappy is better. Zoom is covered by another system, this is for music during happy hour that I host every month.
Then use the opposite end from the presentation end for the music.
Place the standing tables there. Avoid the center area with the open ceiling.
At least the acoustic ceiling at the ends will kill some of the echoing.
Place the standing tables there. Avoid the center area with the open ceiling.
At least the acoustic ceiling at the ends will kill some of the echoing.
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Your main need then is to be able to play loud cleanly in a large room. 60 people can make a lot of noise and a domestic system will struggle to get loud enough to be heard. You need pretty robust gear. if you want to do it economically you have nothing to loose by doing some trials.
Try your subwoofer, some largish speakers (large cones) and your Onkyo amp. Put the speakers up above head height. Be careful not to drive the amp heavily into clipping lest you blow everything up. See how capable that system is; then if you need it a little bit louder, multiply the power handling of the amp and speakers by 4 times (e.g. go from 50 watts to 200 watts), if it needs to be quite a bit louder, then multiply by at least 10 times (i.e. to 500 watts)