UFO's- Please help me process

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#1,264
Some interesting reading

What UFOs Mean for Why People Don'''t Trust Science - The Atlantic

Meet The Penn State Professor Trying To Make UFOs Make Sense | Onward State

and here is a quote from the text in the last link

“You want to understand its logic, you want to understand the people who embrace this kind of thinking, that’s what’s really important,” Eghigian said. “I’ll leave it to others to sort of unpack the veracity of the claims, but for me, it’s a sociological phenomenon, and it requires an explanation on that level.”
 
#1,266
Fast Eddie D said:
Yes.

I always get the "we don't understand gravity" from one of the other conspiracy groups. The fact that gravity is used in so many engineering calculations, every day, and is so reliable, just goes right over the heads of the faithful. It's just a big old mystery, or even a hoax, and it's either fake or else we don't know squat about it. It's just buoyancy, or an illusion, or an illuminati hoax, or........

Oy vey. I lament all those years spent at university, being brainwashed with all those lies. Gravity! Round earth! THEY just want you to think that, dummy.
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We don’t understand how gravity works. Do you disagree with this statement? If you disagree, here are a few articles that might help you along...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/outl...9-a3a6-ab670962db05_story.html?outputType=amp

A fifth fundamental force could really exist, but we haven't found it yet

What is gravity?

What is gravity or how does gravity work? | Science Guys | Union University, a Christian College in Tennessee

Quanta Magazine

To this statement "since we don't fully understand gravity, does that mean I may float away tomorrow," I too say yes, that is what it means. In order to say with certainty that being made to float away is not possible, you would need to understand exactly how gravity works. If you do, please share as there are many people, including all physicists, that would love to know as well.
 
#1,267
Fast Eddie D said:
That's easy.

When people claim they saw a flying saucer, or UFO, or whatever lights etc. I do not believe their claims. I do not think they're lying or dishonest, only possibly mistaken. They could be right or they could be wrong, but without some kind of scientific confirmation, I do not buy into their claims.

That's just how I am. Sorry if it ruffles feathers. I can't help it. I was brainwashed at the best universities.

Now maybe you could answer Bigun's question; that is, if you remember it. Or you could continue to waffle and obfuscate. It's your choice.
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All that without single quote. Perhaps that's because you haven't seen such claim on this thread or the other UFO related thread.
 
#1,269
tizman said:
To this statement "since we don't fully understand gravity, does that mean I may float away tomorrow," I too say yes, that is what it means. In order to say with certainty that being made to float away is not possible, you would need to understand exactly how gravity works. If you do, please share as there are many people, including all physicists, that would love to know as well.
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Of course, but what are the odds? And of all the reasons we might "float off tomorrow" failure of gravity is probably at the bottom of the list.

More pedantic credulity.

🙄
 
#1,270
Fast Eddie D said:
Of course, but what are the odds? And of all the reasons we might "float off tomorrow" failure of gravity is probably at the bottom of the list.

More pedantic credulity.

🙄
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The odds of not knowing for sure what is or isn’t possible are 100%. That’s because we don’t know for sure how lots of things work. Basic things that we take for granted, can easily quantify and predict the behaviour of.

Pedantic credulity.

Pedantic? I don’t think so. It’s not a small and unimportant thing that we don’t know, it’s how one of the four interactions works. Or is it five interactions? Or have two interactions been combined so there are now three interactions? It’s so hard to keep track of what we don’t fully understand.

Credulity? Pretending that you know something for certain while knowing that you don’t know enough to be certain is worse than credulity. At least credulity can be an honest mistake.
 
#1,271
tizman said:
I wish it were true in the case of the family member affected. It was just orthodoxy to take samples and attempt to culture them. Two general practitioners and three specialists were consulted. The long term pain experienced was attributed to a non existent autoimmune condition and, incredibly, psychosis. Nope, just an infection that they didn’t have the ability to test for. The culprit was a bacteria that doesn’t grow in a Petrie dish, and the solution was a long term targeted antibiotic run. In this case, it wasn’t a question of a good or bad doctor. The standard of care was flawed and the testing, which was assumed sufficient, was not adequate. A systemic problem fuelled by orthodoxy and an unwillingness to think outside the box. These doctors assumed the patient had an innate condition, which was not the case, or that they had a psychological problem, which was also not the case. This parallels what happens to people who see UFOs.

Since I’m on the topic, are there any respected physicists that categorically deny the possibility of aliens visiting us on the basis of our current understanding of physics?
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Well put, it shows we're running around in circles this way.
 
#1,272
tizman said:
The odds of not knowing for sure what is or isn’t possible are 100%. That’s because we don’t know for sure how lots of things work. Basic things that we take for granted, can easily quantify and predict the behaviour of.

Pedantic credulity.

Pedantic? I don’t think so. It’s not a small and unimportant thing that we don’t know, it’s how one of the four interactions works. Or is it five interactions? Or have two interactions been combined so there are now three interactions? It’s so hard to keep track of what we don’t fully understand.

Credulity? Pretending that you know something for certain while knowing that you don’t know enough to be certain is worse than credulity. At least credulity can be an honest mistake.
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You reject science when it doesn’t give you the answer you want ie aliens are here. When science tells you the odds on the Milky Way being full of planets with aliens are vanishingly low, you reject it. That’s not how it works.

Read the Anders Sandberg paper and the references, particularly the one from Brandon Carter because they are very well reasoned and based on a thorough understanding of evolution and physics. At least then, you will have one side of the story. On the other side of the story, there are plenty of papers supporting the ‘alien life’ hypothesis and NASA has a budget of billions to search for it. Spoiler alert: alien life in this case means microbial life, or just looking for the signatures of life - a sustained oxygen atmosphere on an exoplanet, methane (a marker of simple hydrogen processing cyanobacteria) etc. This isn’t postulation- it’s serious science looking for answers.

Further, I don’t doubt for one minute you were seriously ill with a bacterial infection, but at the end of the day, it was science that fixed you up, right? Because they never got it right within 10 minutes of diagnosis does not mean they clung to orthodoxy or failed to think outside the box.

You live in a world in which you enjoy all the benefits of a scientific culture - your computer, your mobile, healthcare, home appliances, creature comforts like A/C and heating. You can always abandon this in its entirety and go and sit on a hill somewhere, think out the box and come up with a totally unorthodox way of doing all this stuff.

Here’s a light article in which Sandberg explains the probability of alien visitation

UFOs: how to calculate the odds that an alien spaceship has been spotted | Technology
 
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#1,275
Bonsai said:
. On the other side of the story, there are plenty of papers supporting the ‘alien life’ hypothesis and NASA has a budget of billions to search for it. Spoiler alert: alien life in this case means microbial life, or just looking for the signatures of life - a sustained oxygen atmosphere on an exoplanet, methane (a marker of simple hydrogen processing cyanobacteria) etc. This isn’t postulation- it’s serious science looking for answers.
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This is the panspermia hypothesis of abiogenesis. It is a serious scientific hypothesis.

I didn't want to bring it up here, because it could open up the door for more wacky alien claims from true believers.

But there it is. Your daddy's an alien! 😱
 
#1,277
Believers try (and fail miserably) to get me on a one on one discussion about their unbased points.
Not worth it because I won´t waste time arguing Faith.
And I´m zero interested in convincing a zealot.

The main point remains that´s being claimed (that´s the point of these 2 interlinked threads) is that Alien crafts, presumably guided by an Intelligence (either Alien pilots or Alien remote control) are visiting us, have some purpose, are swarming US Military or Nuclear power plants (thus triggering Military interest), etc. and "sightings" (always fuzzy, always by "somebody else") are claimed as circumstantial evidence.

Read my lips: that-is-not-evidence-of-any-kind

Not even circumstantial, because there is nothing solid to show, not a single bit.

As of "the question" to be answered is not some unrelated trolling one, trying to kick the ball out of the field, but the basic one:

Are Alien ships, commanded by Alien Intelligence visiting Earth?

NEVER answered with *proof* or *evidence*

Feeble attemps to offer "opinion", hinting at arcane "secrets", asking for "proof" of unrelated stuff, are not enough, just some hot humid air exhaled by somebody.

3 or 4 trolls, always the same, are trying to keep this thread alive, but offer no new ideas and go back to the same old worn ones time and time again.
What else?
 
#1,280
JMFahey said:
NEVER answered with *proof* or *evidence*

Feeble attemps to offer "opinion", hinting at arcane "secrets", asking for "proof" of unrelated stuff, are not enough, just some hot humid air exhaled by somebody.

3 or 4 trolls, always the same, are trying to keep this thread alive, but offer no new ideas and go back to the same old worn ones time and time again.
What else?
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That's the internet.

It doesn't matter if it's flat earth, young earth creationism, or aliens. It will go in circles; moving goalposts, poisoning the well, cracks about your mother, etc. NEVER will any evidence be presented, because there isn't any.
 
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