No doubt this question will incur the wrath of the audiophiles but when you get way down into the depths (assuming you're not building a PA system) does 'quality' really matter? After all, there's no actual 'music' down there. A boom is a boom and a rumble is a rumble.
To add more context to the question: I'm pleased with my home theatre system. It's probably good down to 35-40Hz. But I've got a redundant pair of cheap 15" drivers that claim they go down to 23Hz. What if I used them as reinforcement, only to respond to 20-40Hz? To produce SPL of 105dB they're only going to need about 30 watts.
To add more context to the question: I'm pleased with my home theatre system. It's probably good down to 35-40Hz. But I've got a redundant pair of cheap 15" drivers that claim they go down to 23Hz. What if I used them as reinforcement, only to respond to 20-40Hz? To produce SPL of 105dB they're only going to need about 30 watts.
Is quality important down there? Depends if you prefer Krispy Kreme sugar-drenched donuts over Nona's traditional tiramisu. A good subwoofer never reveals itself as a source of sound, and never makes something else, like a voice, sound unnatural. By my definition good subwoofers are as rare as rocking horse poo, but worth an awful lot to a multichannel system if you can get one.
You're not making any sense. I listed to a range of music, I can tell the colouration of Whitney or Maria's voice. I can hear a good, smooth Oboe or Cello. But a boom or rumble has no nuance, it's all pretty standard. And in the final dimension of accurate representation - many low-frequencies are deliberately distorted at source in an attempt to replicate what your ears can cope with.
There are arguments for that and then are also arguments against that idea. For movies that is likely more true but for music the objectivists will still say as long as it can produce the frequency you are looking for you are fine.
Others will say that the boom can sound off if it doesn't start and stop just when it is supposed to, or transition into the next boom fast enough.
Are you using an amp with a built in crossover or are your speakers still going as low as they can? Depending on where you crossover the sub there are frequencies in music that could be down in the range it is producing http://www.guitarbuilding.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/06/Instrument-Sound-EQ-Chart.pdf
If, as mentioned, you cut the subwoofer output at 40Hz then you are likely not getting much from music for it; but the rare time music dips in that area it would be really odd having the bass come in super strong. Even with movies, if done wrong the bass can be distracting; at least for me.
If your amp doesn't have a built in crossover then one of the biggest hurdles with any subwoofer is blending it with your main speakers and adjusting it so that it doesn't stand out or even cancel out frequencies from your main speakers. REW is a great tool for subwoofer adjustment.
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Subs need to be well damped ime. The transient part of those frequencies are produced up higher, typically by other smaller drivers so good flat, well damped response is what you need for well defined bass notes. I have a couple of Linn 5150 which are isobaric with a pair of 12" woofers each. Response is flat to 15hz. Not usable down to there but the capability reinforces their ability further up. They produce the sharpest definition I have ever heard. They don't miss a thing.
From stuff I've had in my system I would probably answer that type of sub is not that important from about 40Hz down. (My systems were usually flat to 15Hz)
From 15Hz to 80Hz I have heard the best results with servo feedback sealed subs or front loaded horns.
The servo and horn systems had the usual audiophile descriptions that we don't like to use here, faster, tighter, cleaner, musical etc
Funnily enough I've had PA style subs tuned to 35Hz and high passed at 32Hz that sounded great too, though obviously no actual 'sub' frequencies there.
Best way is to have a listen yourself and decide with your own ears.
From 15Hz to 80Hz I have heard the best results with servo feedback sealed subs or front loaded horns.
The servo and horn systems had the usual audiophile descriptions that we don't like to use here, faster, tighter, cleaner, musical etc
Funnily enough I've had PA style subs tuned to 35Hz and high passed at 32Hz that sounded great too, though obviously no actual 'sub' frequencies there.
Best way is to have a listen yourself and decide with your own ears.
That may be true, however with most subwoofers what you hear is dominantly the subwoofer's own character. It's like putting a bucket over your head - the bucket colors whatever you are listening to with the sound of the bucket.
As I said earlier when I wasn't making any sense, a good subwoofer never reveals itself as a source of sound, and never makes something else sound unnatural. Most subwoofers just dominate whatever they are reproducing with their own 'bucket' character.
Play some pink noise into a couple of subwoofers and switch between them; you'll soon hear the different character of the two subwoofers and understand what I am talking about. Warning: you'll be a lot fussier about subwoofers once you have learned to hear what they do to your audio.
To OP:
Pros -
1) you already have the drivers
2) you may be able to clear-up some upper LF/lower MR by taking that excursion off the next set of drivers up in frequency.
3) you will likely learn stuff
Cons -
1) maybe need more amps
2) one more xo costs money
I make no claims to being any sort of LF expert, but IMO having cleaner bass and missing some is preferable to having all of the bottom be dirtier. Just my 2c. Maybe you can treat the exercise as an inquiry to answer your post or arrive at your own compromises?
Pros -
1) you already have the drivers
2) you may be able to clear-up some upper LF/lower MR by taking that excursion off the next set of drivers up in frequency.
3) you will likely learn stuff
Cons -
1) maybe need more amps
2) one more xo costs money
I make no claims to being any sort of LF expert, but IMO having cleaner bass and missing some is preferable to having all of the bottom be dirtier. Just my 2c. Maybe you can treat the exercise as an inquiry to answer your post or arrive at your own compromises?
I know that a good sub driver in a right bass gives a lot more definition to the bass and sub, it's less sloppy and vague. A big part of that is the cabinet, but a good subwoofer should also have enough xmax, BL and the right ammount of damping to do that. Those often cost a bit.
I did use cheap JBSystem 15" driver long ago in a cabinet made by a a guy who did build pa speakers for his living and altough it went low, the sound was sloppy and undefined. I did use a Pyle sub also for a while (owned by a friend) and idem.
Now i run a 10" scanspeak driver of much higher quality and the sub is much more defined, i can hear the notes individually, it's not just rumble, even down low. I first did run it in a ported cabinet tuned to 24hz which was to much for the music i use it for (no HT here). Now it's in a sealed cabinet that even sounds better, but not that deep (only 32Hz). I think quality subwoofer drivers do make a great difference. But it's not so that a good subwoofer driver has to cost a fortune. Some can be found relative cheap (a few hundreds).
I did use cheap JBSystem 15" driver long ago in a cabinet made by a a guy who did build pa speakers for his living and altough it went low, the sound was sloppy and undefined. I did use a Pyle sub also for a while (owned by a friend) and idem.
Now i run a 10" scanspeak driver of much higher quality and the sub is much more defined, i can hear the notes individually, it's not just rumble, even down low. I first did run it in a ported cabinet tuned to 24hz which was to much for the music i use it for (no HT here). Now it's in a sealed cabinet that even sounds better, but not that deep (only 32Hz). I think quality subwoofer drivers do make a great difference. But it's not so that a good subwoofer driver has to cost a fortune. Some can be found relative cheap (a few hundreds).
probably good down to 35-40Hz // cheap 15" drivers
you already got 2 points that need to be solved. do you think that your cheap driver will sound equal to Dayton ultimax 15 or JL Audio 13W7? i can't afford these drivers but i'm proud to say that my Infinity Kappa Perfect 12.1 is already a good driver which can go below 20Hz
you must have ever gone to a proper IMAX theater, you still say they are the same bass with your home theater?
until OP make up and clear his mind, this thread should go to Lounge area for just chit chat opinion
Comments like these simply goad me to insult the poster . . .
I don't live in an IMAX theatre. My lounge is about 40m3. Using the basic rules of thumb: you need twice the power to double the volume and doubling the distance from point of origin reduces volume by 6dB . . . Yes, I can crush an IMAX theatre experience.
35-40hz is the drop-off frequency. Even at 25Hz I can still out-bass an IMAX theatre system considering there is a sub 0.5m from my ***.
Many good points, many more worth discarding. I don't believe that the majority understand the tactile nature of sub-bass.
(1) Nobody knows the drop-off frequency of their own hearing. 20Hz is stretch but at this frequency 'hearing' is not the major receiving factor.
(2) The texture of bass is not determined by the base frequencies it is the overtones and harmonics which provide the flavour.
(3) My non-scientific conclusions come from observations from experience: I live in ear-canal earphones. I play music full-blast from my phone 24/7. However, regardless of the volume of the music in my ears I can still tell if my house system is on. I feel it through my feet and skin. This begs the question: the quality component of tactile sound?
At low frequencies a subwoofer simply vibrates the floor and the walls, which in-turn vibrate the sofa, which in-turn vibrates YOU.
Ergo, below 50Hz - it's all grunt work. "Quality" is largely irrelevant. You have no control over the membranes contributing to your experience. It's not so much about the specs of your sub. It's all about the acoustic qualities of Rockwall and pine.
(1) Nobody knows the drop-off frequency of their own hearing. 20Hz is stretch but at this frequency 'hearing' is not the major receiving factor.
(2) The texture of bass is not determined by the base frequencies it is the overtones and harmonics which provide the flavour.
(3) My non-scientific conclusions come from observations from experience: I live in ear-canal earphones. I play music full-blast from my phone 24/7. However, regardless of the volume of the music in my ears I can still tell if my house system is on. I feel it through my feet and skin. This begs the question: the quality component of tactile sound?
At low frequencies a subwoofer simply vibrates the floor and the walls, which in-turn vibrate the sofa, which in-turn vibrates YOU.
Ergo, below 50Hz - it's all grunt work. "Quality" is largely irrelevant. You have no control over the membranes contributing to your experience. It's not so much about the specs of your sub. It's all about the acoustic qualities of Rockwall and pine.
Surtsey,
1) Having recently checked, I can hear 5 Hz through Sony MD7506 headphones at approximately 100dB. At 20Hz, probably start hearing at about 80dB.
Due to noise induced hearing loss (NIHL) and presbycusis, the SPL at my hearing threshold for 30Hz is the same as 4000 Hz and above (other than at 8kHz..).
Playing music full-blast from your phone 24/7 using earphones will probably result in NIHL, which sucks much of the life out of music and conversation. https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/370200-hearing-frequencies-64-a.html#post6594412
2) In addition to some initial transient noise, virtually everything we hear is a combination of fundamental frequencies with multiple harmonics at even and odd multiples of the fundamental.
"Bass" by definition has lower fundamental frequencies, the lowest of which may be perceived through tactile sense at a lower SPL than may be "heard".
3) At high SPL, sound waves can produce tactile sensations which are perceived in different parts of a body depending on the resonant frequency of the body part.
4) The floor, walls and whatever you sit on usually have a primary resonant frequency.
5) All "grunt work" below 50Hz is not equal, it is easy to "feel" the bass response of a little bluetooth speaker when you and it are sitting on an aluminum bench.
The vibrations felt from resonant response to the subwoofer's acoustic (or mechanical) output may not be accurate to the harmonic structure ("bass quality") of the recorded sound you listen to.
Resonant Frequencies of the Body
If you are seeking/missing tactile sensations from low frequency, and want to minimize the SPL needed to generate them, tactile transducers are a better solution to accomplish an accurate transmission of the harmonic structure of the <50Hz range of recordings than loudspeakers.
Art
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You're seriously mistaken here. A 40hz bass guitar tone can completely disappear in the wooly muffled boom of a poorly designed subwoofer. OTOH, a 40hz bass guitar tone can be sharp and well defined with the bottom end of a three-way. The room will have an impact no doubt but the main character of the speaker will still be predominant.
Some of this will depend on the room and the set up. Without knowing the TS parameters of your drivers (which certainly will dictate their suitability) you might also consider using your two 15" drivers in a face to face slot loaded open baffle arrangement. According to some this will lower the driver Fs by as much as 10Hz while increasing the forward output from the slot by 3dB. I have found this to make very articulate low bass / sub bass with a 70Hz cross over to keep all the harmonics with the main speakers to preserve the image cues for sound staging.