A lot of bass signal is perceived by its harmonic.
A poor performing sub will give a lot more harmonic distortion.
This may be peceived as a 'lot of bass' which no dobut is pleasing to some listeners.
But its hardly accurate reproduction if many of the bass harmonics you are hearing are produced by the speaker and not by the source signal.
A poor performing sub will give a lot more harmonic distortion.
This may be peceived as a 'lot of bass' which no dobut is pleasing to some listeners.
But its hardly accurate reproduction if many of the bass harmonics you are hearing are produced by the speaker and not by the source signal.
Absolutely true. I would encourage everyone to download Audacity, load some of your favorite music and apply a lowpass filter at various frequencies. Bass that is routed to the subwoofer is very ill-defined. It sounds more like a deep, throbbing moan than any kind of musical notes. Now apply a highpass filter at the same frequency. All of the articulation [and slam] of a bass instrument seems to occur particularly in the 100-120Hz region and above.
Another point of note when evaluating subwoofers of any quality is that they are operating in your rooms reverberant sound field. Positioning and use of multiple subwoofers are a must to minimize considerable peaks and dips in the response heard by the listener.
Dude, you cannot hear 5hz nor can your headphones reproduce that frequency. 5Hz is sound produced by your hand when you shake it after hitting your thumb with a hammer. If you could hear 5hz Flo Jo's leg speed would generate a low hum as she ran 100 meters.
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Exactly, Harmonics! Disconnect the bass driver in a 3-way system. You can still 'hear' the 'tune' of the bass due to the harmonics but you can't actually hear the bass.
A subwoofer in isolation produces awful, ugly sounds. If I set my cross-over point to 40hz, turn the rest of my system off and play my one of my favourite tunes, the sub remains largely silent apart from releasing a sound reminiscent of King Kong farting every six seconds.
The quality bit is not as important as this point:
If you currently have 2 bass sources, then adding another 2 will be a good thing.
Make the additional sources cover the whole bass range (20-80Hz or whatever), and use intelligent placement, and you will smooth out the response of your existing system.
Filling in a 25dB room induced hole in your response is a good thing to do.
Google: [ multi sub harman ] or [ multi sub geddes ] for info.
If you currently have 2 bass sources, then adding another 2 will be a good thing.
Make the additional sources cover the whole bass range (20-80Hz or whatever), and use intelligent placement, and you will smooth out the response of your existing system.
Filling in a 25dB room induced hole in your response is a good thing to do.
Google: [ multi sub harman ] or [ multi sub geddes ] for info.
Surtsey,
Funny images, but they have little to do with SPL in a small enclosed, sealed space, like the over the ear headphones I referenced. Break the phones air seal, and there would be no more audible level than someone shaking a hand or leg in the air.
Your opinion does not change what the Sony MDR-7506 headphones are capable of, or what I can or can not hear.
I'd trade my <40Hz low frequency sensitivity in a second to get my high frequency hearing back
.Having heard and measured harmonic distortion for over 30 years, I'm well aware of what harmonics sound like, and could easily hear the 10 and 15Hz harmonics when increasing level past detection of the 5Hz sine wave tone.
Attached are some current MDR-7506 frequency response and distortion measurements from RTINGS.com:
Headphones - 1.4 - Graph - RTINGS.com
and some of my own that extend below 20Hz from 11 years ago, using a Brüel & Kjær 4004 mic with a headphone coupling flange.
Response was -7 to -9dB at 5 Hz. The RTINGS.com distortion chart actually shows a downward trend in distortion below the 60Hz peak, distortion less than 0.01% at 100dB SPL.
The MDR-7506 are by no means the loudest low frequency phones around, but if you are looking for "feel" without neighbor complaints, still think bass shakers are the answer to the "quality" you seek.
Art
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There are physical/mechanical limits within the cochlea's ability to process long wavelengths. However the outer ear is highly non-linear and will present overtones to the inner ear from high level stimulus below audible frequencies. Together that means the effect of a 5Hz fundamental can certainly be heard, but doesn't imply the fundamental is heard.
Even when/if the fundamental is missing the ear/brain auditory mechanism does a very good job of creating a sense of pitch, providing the harmonic series and the attack and decay envelopes are intact. For example, have a look at an FFT of the lowest keys from a small grand or upright piano; the fundamental is nowhere to be seen, yet there is no mistaking the pitch of the key.
Even when/if the fundamental is missing the ear/brain auditory mechanism does a very good job of creating a sense of pitch, providing the harmonic series and the attack and decay envelopes are intact. For example, have a look at an FFT of the lowest keys from a small grand or upright piano; the fundamental is nowhere to be seen, yet there is no mistaking the pitch of the key.
Extreme low frequencies like extreme high frequencies are processed in ways outside our typical "hearing" sensations. These extremes are part of what tells us a "real" experience is happening. These have to do with bodily sensations. Fascinating studies have been done on such things far outside the scope of our blessed audio hobby.
I'm not buying any of this 5hz nonsense. Forget all of the alleged 'data'. Let's apply some very basic critical thinking . . .
For you to 'hear' 5Hz in your headphones the original signal must have been recorded by a microphone capable of responding to that frequency. The signal must be amplified by an amplifier capable of amplifying a 5hz signal. Finally, a speaker must be capable of outputting that frequency.
To put the ridiculousness of your assertion in context: power walkers can exceed 250 steps per minute (4.2Hz) When taking the Doppler effect into consideration you'd hear them. You'd hear the low buzz of dogs running and birds flying.
Trust me, you cannot hear 5hz . . . Life would probably be unbearable if you could.
For you to 'hear' 5Hz in your headphones the original signal must have been recorded by a microphone capable of responding to that frequency. The signal must be amplified by an amplifier capable of amplifying a 5hz signal. Finally, a speaker must be capable of outputting that frequency.
To put the ridiculousness of your assertion in context: power walkers can exceed 250 steps per minute (4.2Hz) When taking the Doppler effect into consideration you'd hear them. You'd hear the low buzz of dogs running and birds flying.
Trust me, you cannot hear 5hz . . . Life would probably be unbearable if you could.
"For you to 'hear' 5Hz in your headphones the original signal must have been recorded by a microphone capable of responding to that frequency. The signal must be amplified by an amplifier capable of amplifying a 5hz signal. Finally, a speaker must be capable of outputting that frequency."
What makes you think that's a problem?
What makes you think that's a problem?
what acousticians told me is that frequencies lower than 70Hz are not heared by the ears but sensed by your diaphragm and so send to your brain. And i know from experience that very loud bass can make people throw up when they are not used to it. If you ever went to a dub dance with several dozens of killowats of bass horn power (mostly scoop horns stacked in rows of 4 tuned (trough coupling) to 32Hz), you will know that it's a very physical experience, and that it's very physical exhausting to do a dance like that, even when you sit down all the time. I do visit dub festivals (with sometimes 35kW alone for the subwoofers) here in Europe, and it's something you can't get at home, even with the best subwoofers arround.
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A low repetition frequency (like someone else walking) does not imply the SPL it creates would be heard.
I was listening to the sound of a sine wave from a tone generator, not a recording.
The SMAART measurement posted used a microphone that is flat to 10Hz, the chart was included in the post.
The Sony MDF-7506 are capable of reproducing sound with very low distortion below 10Hz, as can be seen in the measurements you choose to dismiss.
I believe you and many others that may not be able to hear 5 Hz at "only" around 100dB SPL, but that does not change the fact that I can. Who knows, maybe I have elephant hearing genes ;^).
And trust me, I have moved away from seating areas near HVAC outlets where the low frequency pipe resonance caused me discomfort (nausea), while no one else seemed to notice in the least.
At the other end of the spectrum, I can't hear high frequency sounds until at a level that may cause those with "normal" hearing to cover their ears.
Cheers,
Art
Are you the only listener / resident?
If so, and if your layout + aesthetics allow, you could consider making a single nearfield sub with them.
e.g. make a test U-frame out of scraps (sturdy carboard + cable ties + duct tape works fine), stick it on a table directly behind where you sit, and see if you like the result. If you don't, the effort will have cost you nothing
Otherwise, selling them and following the excellent tips given by user weltersys seems like it might be your best upgrade path.
+/- 3 db is not flat
Linn AV 5150 Active Isobarik Subwoofer - Cherry Finish – SkyFi Audio
Frequency Response:
15Hz-100Hz, +/-3dB
Are you the only listener / resident?
If so, and if your layout + aesthetics allow, you could consider making a single nearfield sub with them.
e.g. make a test U-frame out of scraps (sturdy carboard + cable ties + duct tape works fine), stick it on a table directly behind where you sit, and see if you like the result. If you don't, the effort will have cost you nothing
Otherwise, selling them and following the excellent tips given by user weltersys seems like it might be your best upgrade path.
I already have THREE subs on my HTPC. The only way to utilise these drivers would be install them downward firing inside my sofa where there are 60 litres available.
But just because I can do something doesn't mean I should.