When dreaming of winning the VFET lottery I wake to the cruel reality that I can’t fit dorm fridge-sized speakers into my life. My listening is nearfield monitors on my desktop or very limited placements options in my living room. My odd shaped living room is full of obstructions like built-ins, kids, dogs and Lego houses that mean only a small footprint speaker close to the wall fits. An open baffle plank placed two feet from the front wall would be meme-worthy but short lived.
I’ve considered a number of solutions. All compromise bass for smaller enclosures, acceptable if I can get low enough to add a subwoofer in the future. The top three:
1) The right full range. The Seas F22RCZ in a tall, shallow ported box could approach 3 cubic feet, but would have to sit against the wall. Madisound says the F22RCZ can go sealed in 0.65 cubic feet. That might even fit on my desktop.
2) According to the spec sheet, big coaxials can work in small boxes. I don’t see a lot of enthusiasm for it. The 3 cubic foot tall, shallow vented enclosure discussed for the F22RCZ could fit a 12” or even 15” coaxial. Sealed, I could go as small as a 12” coaxial in one cubic foot ala a Zu cube clone.
3) Not worrying about sensitivity. 10 watts ought to be plenty for speakers 3 feet from my face, right? Still… professional reviews of First Watt amps and my own experience tells me not all speakers work. I had KEF R100s that sounded glorious driven by 30 watts, but only at volumes that made desktop listening unpleasant. What measurements other than sensitivity make for a good match? Paper cones only? Or what specific drivers? A simple full range monitor with the Scanspeak 10F/8414G10 could be fun, but they’re just so insensitive.
Due to budget and limited free time, I’d need to avoid $1000 drivers, CNC cut horns and esoterica. Otherwise I want to hear how others would, or have, dealt with pairing First Watt-style amps to speakers with 5- to 60-liter volumes. Please critique the options I’ve listed, offer new ones or share a favorite pairing of a low power Pass amp to small and/or low SPL speaker. I realize this thread might fit better in the loudspeakers forum, but I’m particularly interested in speakers for a Sony VFET amp, should I be lucky enough to win one.
I’ve considered a number of solutions. All compromise bass for smaller enclosures, acceptable if I can get low enough to add a subwoofer in the future. The top three:
1) The right full range. The Seas F22RCZ in a tall, shallow ported box could approach 3 cubic feet, but would have to sit against the wall. Madisound says the F22RCZ can go sealed in 0.65 cubic feet. That might even fit on my desktop.
2) According to the spec sheet, big coaxials can work in small boxes. I don’t see a lot of enthusiasm for it. The 3 cubic foot tall, shallow vented enclosure discussed for the F22RCZ could fit a 12” or even 15” coaxial. Sealed, I could go as small as a 12” coaxial in one cubic foot ala a Zu cube clone.
3) Not worrying about sensitivity. 10 watts ought to be plenty for speakers 3 feet from my face, right? Still… professional reviews of First Watt amps and my own experience tells me not all speakers work. I had KEF R100s that sounded glorious driven by 30 watts, but only at volumes that made desktop listening unpleasant. What measurements other than sensitivity make for a good match? Paper cones only? Or what specific drivers? A simple full range monitor with the Scanspeak 10F/8414G10 could be fun, but they’re just so insensitive.
Due to budget and limited free time, I’d need to avoid $1000 drivers, CNC cut horns and esoterica. Otherwise I want to hear how others would, or have, dealt with pairing First Watt-style amps to speakers with 5- to 60-liter volumes. Please critique the options I’ve listed, offer new ones or share a favorite pairing of a low power Pass amp to small and/or low SPL speaker. I realize this thread might fit better in the loudspeakers forum, but I’m particularly interested in speakers for a Sony VFET amp, should I be lucky enough to win one.
go with Zu Cube style, or Towers with same drivers
fun guaranteed, you can make them fast and easy
fun guaranteed, you can make them fast and easy
even for all the obstacles, going with small bookshelfs with full range, plus sub, or two driven by their own plate amp is the way to go
subs can be tucked away, small bookshelfs easily placed to best location
classA of any power should do
subs can be tucked away, small bookshelfs easily placed to best location
classA of any power should do
Recently got a pair of Tekton Lore's, easy to drive. Big sound, smallish form factor. From an FAOW to a Pass Labs X150, I've yet to be dissappointed. And I do believe our resident SIT mad scientist, Mr. MR has a pair and can attest.
FWIW, I’ve been driving Proac Tablette 10 Signatures with my Vfet SE amp. 86db sensitivity and 10ohm load. Sounds great, and it gives me just enough volume (not much more though).
FA22 would not be my choice for a smallish box. And given it does so well in a sealed box, i do not see the value in doing a reflex.
But when you say small i go elsewhere, FA22 wants what i would call a biggish box. The FA22 also needs some work to clean it up. After that it is quite good.
What you are looking for is a loudspeaker with flattish impedance, almost any FR with a polepiece cap (or other to deal w VC inductance) will have a fairly nice impedance curve. They don’t need to be all that efficient in a smallish room except maybe if you like pushing hard.
The only First Watt amps i have had so far are the SIT-3 and the ACA. Even in my big room, sensitivity is not really an issue, the speaker nominal impedance is — neither is really happy with 4 ohms, Nelson mentions that the (Sony) VFET is a prima dona and 8 ohm speakers are optimal.
For your situation the Alpai rA10p (A10PeN if you can find one) would be my choice over FA22, more sensitive, does decent bass can be fit into boxes between 10 & as big as (or bigger) than needed for the FA22.
dave
dave
But when you say small i go elsewhere, FA22 wants what i would call a biggish box. The FA22 also needs some work to clean it up. After that it is quite good.
What you are looking for is a loudspeaker with flattish impedance, almost any FR with a polepiece cap (or other to deal w VC inductance) will have a fairly nice impedance curve. They don’t need to be all that efficient in a smallish room except maybe if you like pushing hard.
The only First Watt amps i have had so far are the SIT-3 and the ACA. Even in my big room, sensitivity is not really an issue, the speaker nominal impedance is — neither is really happy with 4 ohms, Nelson mentions that the (Sony) VFET is a prima dona and 8 ohm speakers are optimal.
For your situation the Alpai rA10p (A10PeN if you can find one) would be my choice over FA22, more sensitive, does decent bass can be fit into boxes between 10 & as big as (or bigger) than needed for the FA22.
dave
dave
Thanks for the first hand feedback on the F22!
Proac's have a good reputation. Good to know they work here!
I've been wary of some of the strange Tekton designs, but the Lore seems quite straightforward. Thanks for the suggestion.
I'm hoping diysoundgroup will re-release the Vortex drivers at some point: I'd like to take Zen's advice with those.
Thanks for the suggestion. I like what you've done with the Betsy WOW. Is that the Betsy-K?
I thought about trying the Betsy-k or Betsy-omega (If I could get a pair) in a small box, but the F22RCZ seemed similar.
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Good advice! I’ve let impedance take a backseat to sensitivity, but it matters, too.
On the Tektons, I felt that way at first. Nothing to worry about soundwise...they are fabulous.
Russellc
I just read John Atkinson’s review of the Tekton Impact and Adason’s blog DIY version. Seems my suspicion of the multi-tweeter array is unfounded.
The Lore seems vaguely reminiscent of the Seas A26/DeVore Orangutans (two-way with a 10” woofer in a fairly large box), which are reportedly good with First Watt amps. The A26 is available in kit form, but I hadn’t seriously considered it because of it’s size and lower sensitivity. The Lore is both more sensitive and has a more manageable footprint. If I decide to go commercial instead of DIY, a definite contender.
When you are matching amps like the ACA or thr VFET, the amplifier class the amps are likely close too when it comes to speaker matching is a low Rout 300B SE.
Having talked to the Tekton designer a number of times it is hard for me to get excited about them. I’mnot a big fan of dome tweeters, you can imagine what i think of the arrays of them. I am also a fan of tryingto achieve the quarter wave metric at the XO point.
What does the impedance look like?
dave
Having talked to the Tekton designer a number of times it is hard for me to get excited about them. I’mnot a big fan of dome tweeters, you can imagine what i think of the arrays of them. I am also a fan of tryingto achieve the quarter wave metric at the XO point.
What does the impedance look like?
dave
A26
DeVore O/93
DeVore O/96
Tekton Impact
Can’t find one for Tekton Lore.
With any of the highish Rout Firstwatts you are looking for a fairly flat impedance curve to avoid much interaction between FR and imp response.
dave
I have always wanted to try the A26 kits, but have beret gotten around to it. Partly worried that they’d over power my small room.
The beauty of the aperiodic box is that you have some tunebility.
I’d suggest the CGR SEA-Ken for the A26 kit would be most versatile in that respect and the wide box fairly near the wall will amerolate 2pi to 4pi transition (done right because there isn’t one).
Post#51: Seas A26 Devore Style Build
dave
I’d suggest the CGR SEA-Ken for the A26 kit would be most versatile in that respect and the wide box fairly near the wall will amerolate 2pi to 4pi transition (done right because there isn’t one).
Post#51: Seas A26 Devore Style Build
dave
Yes, I’ve been watching the A26 redesign thread with much interest! Thanks for sharing: the impedance plots make it clear just how much the minimal crossover in the A26 matters.
The complicated bracing in the redesigned cabinet is way more than I can handle. Do you do that yourself, or is there a pay-for-service that will do it for one pair of cabinets?
The complicated bracing in the redesigned cabinet is way more than I can handle. Do you do that yourself, or is there a pay-for-service that will do it for one pair of cabinets?
I just tested out my VFET on my Rockville speakers (an homage to LS3/5A but with my own XO and easy to find and low cost drivers)and I was very pleasantly impressed by how natural and easy sounding the combo was to listen to. For near field they are superb. Not lacking in volume or bass and the clarity and imaging is excellent. It may have something to do with the very easy to drive impedance curve.
Full plans are here. Drivers are inexpensive but the sound is excellent. At least 8 other builds have confirmed the design is good and with satisfied builders.
Measured impedance:
Full plans are here. Drivers are inexpensive but the sound is excellent. At least 8 other builds have confirmed the design is good and with satisfied builders.
Measured impedance:
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