Yes, that is why the <97pF/m seems a bit high for that particular cable. With a foam dielectric it is very unlikely to be 75R, so if it works fine for SPDIF then that completely knocks on the head all the cable fan arguments and the jitterphobes.davidsrsb said:
Foam dielectrics are not very low Er as there is still plenty of plastic in there. Low loss aerial coax uses the plastic as a spindly frame with air channels running the length of the coax.
That's cheating, a large diameter semi-rigid, with 200mm minimum bend radius. That allows far gassier foams than you could use in a flexible cable
😕😕
You stated:
One instance which disproves a blanket statement voids the blanket statement.
Besides, I just selected one from the page. If I knew I wuz gonna be accused of cheating, I'd have selected a smaller coax.😉
The bending radius of the smaller cables scale..
Quite a few of the wire manu's have relatively low Er foams. I recall perusing the belden site about 8 years ago, found quite a few.
jn
I tried using fairly cheap RG58u coax for speaker cables in the late 1980's, the lengths were approximately 6 metres and it did not impress me, the system sounded dull. I then switched it for some heavy low loss stuff I had for radio use and it did sound better. I ditched it though because it was far too stiff to be practical.
Cheap coax will have insufficient copper so resistance will be higher than ideal for speaker cables. Also, a 50R cable will add unnecessary capacitance. Using coax for speakers is a daft idea unless you live next to a transmitter and need to keep the RF out.
That's pretty much the same conclusion I came to. Back then to suggest that cable type mattered in audio was met with derision from most folk, bell wire was the norm for hifi. You try daft things when you are young 😉
Also some of the coaxial cables used in datacommunications use a copper plated steel core for strength. Steel is a poor conductor and good a picking up magnetic fields
The steel coated coax can be pulled through conduits, most of the UKs CATV network had that stuff from the Cab to your house.
Right now I don't really trust about high end loudspeaker cable anymore.
I have old big cardas golden hexlink 5 that sounds good enough for me but when I compared it with cheap $1.5/meter ofc cable, it sounds close enough to cardas cable.
My audio technician says to me yesterday, once he was asked to split expensive audience AU24 loudspeaker cable from 1 pr to 2 pr cable and he suprised that the expensive cable (and also has excelent review) just contains cheap copper wire from federal brand (singapore brands).
I have old big cardas golden hexlink 5 that sounds good enough for me but when I compared it with cheap $1.5/meter ofc cable, it sounds close enough to cardas cable.
My audio technician says to me yesterday, once he was asked to split expensive audience AU24 loudspeaker cable from 1 pr to 2 pr cable and he suprised that the expensive cable (and also has excelent review) just contains cheap copper wire from federal brand (singapore brands).
The Audience AU24 MSRP price was $1200 at that time, the loudspeaker cable actually just have 1 pair stranded 20 awg per channel and the price of federal cable was so cheap, total cost with connector and etc are less than $80
Feels like you've been cheated right? 🙂
Of course, but that is sometimes how 'high-end' audio works.
Try to sell a cable for $100 and nobody buys. Up the price to $250 and sales begin to increase. Add a good 'story' and charge $800 and sales will rocket; journalists will give you a good write-up too.
Try to sell a cable for $100 and nobody buys. Up the price to $250 and sales begin to increase. Add a good 'story' and charge $800 and sales will rocket; journalists will give you a good write-up too.
I know. I did a quick Facebook search for groups interested in audio, and entered audiophiles north america.
It turns out to a group by some guy named Ted Denney championing audiophile cables, and inane products from Synergistic Research.
I came for the chance to learn anything useful, and stay for the laughs.
Hopefully This Is A Joke!
Either I'm somehow traveled back in time to the mid-'80s or I've somehow been transferred to the Audiocircle forum because I cannot believe people are still honestly having this debate! First I don't give a rat's butt about those who show measurements backing up their position pro or con on this topic. Because Albert Einstein, a gentleman who's much smarter than these folks is attributed to have said; 'Not everything that can be measured matters and not everything that matters can be measured' So perhaps what's being measured in wires doesn't really matter all that much concerning what we hear and it's equally possible that something that really matters concerning what we hear in wires isn't being measured!
To judge wires and what they can and cannot do, one simply needs to listen. I cannot speak for anyone else here but I have no vested interest in wanting expensive wires to sound better. In fact, for many years I was on the "Wires cannot matter that much sonically" bandwagon and would much rather spend my money on a better preamp, DAC, etc. than a pair of wires, period. That is until a friend of mine came to my home --{it was a long time ago but I know it was the late '80s or very early '90s}-- with a pair of XLO speaker wires. Now remember I didn't believe wires matter, so expectation bias should have worked against my hearing any audible improvements, but the audible improvement over the Monster cable I was using floored me! The next time he visited he brought over his XLO ICs and once again vs the $100 ICs I was using the improvement floored me and I could no longer believe "Wires cannot matter that much sonically" because I heard that they could.
These days my system consists of:
1) YBA Genesis CD4 used as a transport.
2) Musical Paradise MP-D2 tube DAC.
3) Don Sachs SP14 tube preamp.
4) Mastersound Reference 845, tube SET amp or T+A Elektroakoustic solid-state Amp 8.
5) Reference 3A, 92dB sensitive, Taksim speakers.
And the wires I use:
a) Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature Speaker wires.
b) ICs: Atelier Rullit Pure Rulity, NBS Professional III and Teo Audio GC Ultra.
c) Power cords: Sablon Gran Corona, Hi-Diamond 3, and Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature.
I will admit that I always buy my wires used because as much as I know they make a difference, I still hate spending a lot of money on wires. That said, every one of the wires listed above has made a large sonic improvement in the sound of my system. Finally to those who'll now tout wires are only tone controls, well that may in fact be true, but I'd respond to that by saying I've yet to hear an audio component whose sound couldn't be improved by a good set of tone controls or an equalizer. It really doesn't matter what the wires are doing or even how they are doing it. The ONLY thing that matters is are they improving the sonics of my audio system and to that I'd respond with a resounding YES!
Thetubeguy1954
Either I'm somehow traveled back in time to the mid-'80s or I've somehow been transferred to the Audiocircle forum because I cannot believe people are still honestly having this debate! First I don't give a rat's butt about those who show measurements backing up their position pro or con on this topic. Because Albert Einstein, a gentleman who's much smarter than these folks is attributed to have said; 'Not everything that can be measured matters and not everything that matters can be measured' So perhaps what's being measured in wires doesn't really matter all that much concerning what we hear and it's equally possible that something that really matters concerning what we hear in wires isn't being measured!
To judge wires and what they can and cannot do, one simply needs to listen. I cannot speak for anyone else here but I have no vested interest in wanting expensive wires to sound better. In fact, for many years I was on the "Wires cannot matter that much sonically" bandwagon and would much rather spend my money on a better preamp, DAC, etc. than a pair of wires, period. That is until a friend of mine came to my home --{it was a long time ago but I know it was the late '80s or very early '90s}-- with a pair of XLO speaker wires. Now remember I didn't believe wires matter, so expectation bias should have worked against my hearing any audible improvements, but the audible improvement over the Monster cable I was using floored me! The next time he visited he brought over his XLO ICs and once again vs the $100 ICs I was using the improvement floored me and I could no longer believe "Wires cannot matter that much sonically" because I heard that they could.
These days my system consists of:
1) YBA Genesis CD4 used as a transport.
2) Musical Paradise MP-D2 tube DAC.
3) Don Sachs SP14 tube preamp.
4) Mastersound Reference 845, tube SET amp or T+A Elektroakoustic solid-state Amp 8.
5) Reference 3A, 92dB sensitive, Taksim speakers.
And the wires I use:
a) Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature Speaker wires.
b) ICs: Atelier Rullit Pure Rulity, NBS Professional III and Teo Audio GC Ultra.
c) Power cords: Sablon Gran Corona, Hi-Diamond 3, and Snake River Audio Cottonmouth Signature.
I will admit that I always buy my wires used because as much as I know they make a difference, I still hate spending a lot of money on wires. That said, every one of the wires listed above has made a large sonic improvement in the sound of my system. Finally to those who'll now tout wires are only tone controls, well that may in fact be true, but I'd respond to that by saying I've yet to hear an audio component whose sound couldn't be improved by a good set of tone controls or an equalizer. It really doesn't matter what the wires are doing or even how they are doing it. The ONLY thing that matters is are they improving the sonics of my audio system and to that I'd respond with a resounding YES!
Thetubeguy1954
"I will admit that I always buy my wires used because as much as I know they make a difference, I still hate spending a lot of money on wires."
That's the important thing, as is the breaking of speakers and phono cartridges, etc. 🙄
That explains everything. Good for it ! 😎
That's the important thing, as is the breaking of speakers and phono cartridges, etc. 🙄
That explains everything. Good for it ! 😎
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