Why would you set delay to woofers? There is no front woofer in this Hyperion. Most likely the horn section must be delayed to get good phase match with woofers at xo.
Does the dsp have open access to settings, or only prefixed choices?
Does the dsp have open access to settings, or only prefixed choices?
Looks like a cool design. I'm wondering what an experienced guy like Tom Danley chooses for the drivers. Also, why no folded horn sub section?
"why no folded horn sub section?"
We don't know xo frequencies. My guess is to get best phase/group delay between "sub" and horn sections. Hyperion is a complete hifi loudspeaker more than parts of HT system. I would block BR pipes and run bass sealed, trusting to get some help from room modes and pressurization. In my small HT room I have a pari of 15" woofers in PPSL configuration, sealed. I had to suppress lows with dsp!
We don't know xo frequencies. My guess is to get best phase/group delay between "sub" and horn sections. Hyperion is a complete hifi loudspeaker more than parts of HT system. I would block BR pipes and run bass sealed, trusting to get some help from room modes and pressurization. In my small HT room I have a pari of 15" woofers in PPSL configuration, sealed. I had to suppress lows with dsp!
Specs say 45Hz xover to sub, which goes down to 14Hz but with no mention of what dB drop.
Folded or tapped horn would have to be too big...
Folded or tapped horn would have to be too big...
Are you sure about those brands of drivers being used in the SM60F?
If so, the 5cn160 and and 8pr320 maybe? Thx.
yes , pretty sure .
i owned a pair and that is what i remember .
here is a thread with some photos where you can recognize the bms sticker in post 10 which is from the paused video at around 2.56 and also some speculation as to which drivers are used :
Tom Danley Signature Series - YouTube
Upcoming Tom Danley Hifi speakers | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
i owned a pair and that is what i remember .
here is a thread with some photos where you can recognize the bms sticker in post 10 which is from the paused video at around 2.56 and also some speculation as to which drivers are used :
Tom Danley Signature Series - YouTube
Upcoming Tom Danley Hifi speakers | Audio Science Review (ASR) Forum
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Coax looks like the CN140. Wrong frame for the CN160 or CN162.
Does the advantages of using a coaxial driver, in this type of case, outweigh the apparent challenges involved in getting this driver to produce smooth response? I guess with enough dsp this is trivial but the factory response of these coax look soo messy compared to other, separate driver options.
Does the advantages of using a coaxial driver, in this type of case, outweigh the apparent challenges involved in getting this driver to produce smooth response? I guess with enough dsp this is trivial but the factory response of these coax look soo messy compared to other, separate driver options.
Big thx, hum4god !
I'm guessing we've been shown the sm60f molded horn, and not the Hyperion...but the Hyperion really does seem so far to be built off the sm60f.
The faitals look like the 8pr200 to me..
I'll comment on bms appearance in next reply to Kevmoso
I'm guessing we've been shown the sm60f molded horn, and not the Hyperion...but the Hyperion really does seem so far to be built off the sm60f.
The faitals look like the 8pr200 to me..
I'll comment on bms appearance in next reply to Kevmoso
Thx Kevmoso,
The frame does look more like the CN140. But the quickie Hyperion spec sheet says 1" which would tie to the CN160. Left wondering ???
To your question, I keep hearing that the benefit of true 1/4 wl co-located sound-sources, ala synergies, sounds best to me, despite ragged response appearances.
That said, i do use dsp to smooth them out....
The response from either driver in the synergy horn won't be the same as the raw measured response. The mid / woofer portion will be bandpassed and the CD will fire straight into the horn instead of having to use the cone as a makeshift moving waveguide.
Yep.
I've never seen a small coax like the bms's in person.
And I have a hard time picturing how a horn can mate only to the CD portion. And an equally hard time picturing how the horn/cabinet also makes a sealed enclosure for the cone section, to port into the horn.
I guess this is where molded horns come into play...or printed horns?
Just can't see how to even get started with wood.....
I've never seen a small coax like the bms's in person.
And I have a hard time picturing how a horn can mate only to the CD portion. And an equally hard time picturing how the horn/cabinet also makes a sealed enclosure for the cone section, to port into the horn.
I guess this is where molded horns come into play...or printed horns?
Just can't see how to even get started with wood.....
Hi Mark
As far as I can recall, the 5" coax driver is claimed by BMS to have a dispersion of 90 degrees vertical and horisontal. Actually the compression-driver is playing through a 90 degree conical horn, that is part of the magnet-structure of the 5" dome speaker. So you wedge a 60 degree circular horn into a 90 degree horn, making it airtight and with an allmost seemless transition! And then you make holes in the 60 degree horn at the right places for the 5" cone to fire into the synergy-horn. The SM60F horn appears to be round in the throat section, changing to an allmost square shape at the mouth. There is a cut-away-picture of the SM60F somewhere.
Maybe that is all known to you guys. I´ve spend quit some time thinking how to copy that idea with a 3D printer, the 5" coax-driver is not that expensive. But I´m probably going for an AXI2050 or big 4594HE BMS coax-compressiondriver in my hopefully upcoming synergy build.
Regards
Steffen
As far as I can recall, the 5" coax driver is claimed by BMS to have a dispersion of 90 degrees vertical and horisontal. Actually the compression-driver is playing through a 90 degree conical horn, that is part of the magnet-structure of the 5" dome speaker. So you wedge a 60 degree circular horn into a 90 degree horn, making it airtight and with an allmost seemless transition! And then you make holes in the 60 degree horn at the right places for the 5" cone to fire into the synergy-horn. The SM60F horn appears to be round in the throat section, changing to an allmost square shape at the mouth. There is a cut-away-picture of the SM60F somewhere.
Maybe that is all known to you guys. I´ve spend quit some time thinking how to copy that idea with a 3D printer, the 5" coax-driver is not that expensive. But I´m probably going for an AXI2050 or big 4594HE BMS coax-compressiondriver in my hopefully upcoming synergy build.
Regards
Steffen
Hi Steffen
It sounds like we are pondering the exact same details about how to match a bms coax to a horn.
The more i've studied this, and also asking myself why i care, ....well, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to find out.
The only advantage i can see the Hyperion holds to the synergies i've been building, seems to be smaller size and some lower extension.
Big disadvantages are the Hyperion specs say 124dB peak, and I've learned in DSL speak, that means 118 continuous. Great for most everybody, but will be choked a bit for me.
And smaller size size means pattern control lets go earlier.
Not being into HT, my 30Hz all-you-can-eat-SPL subs work...besides, it's easy to build a bigger deeper digging, sub if so desired.
So again, it just comes down to a smaller home-scale size.
I'm gonna stick with low reaching coaxial CDs in synergies.
Kind of glad to be getting this Hyperion build-bug out of my butt! 😛
It sounds like we are pondering the exact same details about how to match a bms coax to a horn.
The more i've studied this, and also asking myself why i care, ....well, I'm not sure it's worth the effort to find out.
The only advantage i can see the Hyperion holds to the synergies i've been building, seems to be smaller size and some lower extension.
Big disadvantages are the Hyperion specs say 124dB peak, and I've learned in DSL speak, that means 118 continuous. Great for most everybody, but will be choked a bit for me.
And smaller size size means pattern control lets go earlier.
Not being into HT, my 30Hz all-you-can-eat-SPL subs work...besides, it's easy to build a bigger deeper digging, sub if so desired.
So again, it just comes down to a smaller home-scale size.
I'm gonna stick with low reaching coaxial CDs in synergies.
Kind of glad to be getting this Hyperion build-bug out of my butt! 😛
Perhaps you have not seen this thread before ?
Bookshelf Synergy with a 6.5" Coax in a reflex box
It doesn't lend itself to flat wooden panels and works better when the H and V are the same or even better when the horn is axisymmetric.
Bookshelf Synergy with a 6.5" Coax in a reflex box
It doesn't lend itself to flat wooden panels and works better when the H and V are the same or even better when the horn is axisymmetric.
I explored that question here, a few years ago: Prosound Coaxial Hacking
I had similar concerns: if you look at the frequency response of just about every prosound coax, the tweeter response is not great.
It would be interesting to evaluate if flattening the frequency response with DSP would be sufficient to make it sound "HiFi."
This may be the case, because the response curves of these coaxes is consistent. IE, the response isn't FLAT but it's consistent, and because it's consistent it may be able to make a significant improvement with DSP EQ.