Don't worry, the Asathor is certainly not too big for the room size and a full-range speaker has more disadvantages in my opinion.
How are the walls built in your listening room? Made of solid stone or wood?
Here in Germany almost all houses are made of stone, which makes a difference in the bass compared to a wooden house. But there would be a solution for that too.
And the reasons why people build custom speakers are very different. Of course, the look is also a reason. That's why I designed the Asathor. I think the look of the JBL 4367 is just great, but I wasn't prepared to spend around $ 20,000 on it.
How are the walls built in your listening room? Made of solid stone or wood?
Here in Germany almost all houses are made of stone, which makes a difference in the bass compared to a wooden house. But there would be a solution for that too.
And the reasons why people build custom speakers are very different. Of course, the look is also a reason. That's why I designed the Asathor. I think the look of the JBL 4367 is just great, but I wasn't prepared to spend around $ 20,000 on it.
Most houses here are wood frame and we use drywall for the walls, also called gypsum board. My room is a square 20x20ft or roughly 6x6meters. 10ft or 3meters ceiling with a slight slope. My couch is directly across the room from my setup
The walls could probably absorb some of the bass. Do you have very little bass in your room with the current speakers?
If that is the case, the Asathor could also be built as a bass reflex. Ideally with a larger cabinet.
So you get more level in the bass without changing the design of the x-over.
But if you are happy with the bass at the moment, then this shouldn't be necessary.
If that is the case, the Asathor could also be built as a bass reflex. Ideally with a larger cabinet.
So you get more level in the bass without changing the design of the x-over.
But if you are happy with the bass at the moment, then this shouldn't be necessary.
So I came here thinking I knew what I wanted. After spending more time poking around here, I'm thinking a full range isn't too bad. The pensil looks good, but not sure which one. Too many speaker options.
The height and slope will really help the room, square footprint won’t.
Every loudspeaker has a myriad of compromises. Choosing which compromises best suit you. It sounds like you are not too demanding i expect almost anythingyou build will make you happy.
Be warned, diyers rarely stop at just one. What you learn about speakers, and your needs has you quickly thinking abut how you could tweak or change things.
dave
:^)
The internet, and forums like this one where one can reach out to many across the world for help, the number of decent proven projects has exploded, i know that in the FR world where i mostly play, the number of designs one can go out and find have increased at least 100-fold.
For 40 years i built multi-way speakers, played with ESLs, then about Y2K i discovered single FR drivers. I have learned a whole lot more since then (you should never start learning).
Now we are starting to play with WAW (Woofer Assisted Wideband), essentialy an extention of FR drivers that add helper bass drivers which addresses one of the most common complaints with FRs. FRs can start to fall apart when the music gets loud or really complex. I have found that few people listen that loud but many think they do.
While WAWs are not new, i have had a pair of Noresco thru here from the early 60s that mated a 3” FE83A with a fantastic looking Foster 10” Alnico bas sdriver, XO at 500 Hz. By pushing the XO really low these kinds of boxes avoid many of the big issues that XOs bring.
dave
Dave, out of curiosity, what systems would you recommend to someone that wanted to listen to studio production electric fusion, prog rock, metal, etc. at levels up to 100 db at 10ft back mlp? I love horns, and have never been exposed to a great WAW, or FR setup. Glenn.
Not really my field of expertise.
I play with systems that offer other attributes than playing things at hearing damage levels.
Do note that 100 dB peaks (ie 80-90 dB average, likley closer to your needs, still LOUD), is very different than 100 dB average.
There are lots of WAWs that will reach the required levels for the former, and some FRs that don’t loose it when pushed. I imagine a big horn.
At 10’ (say 3m) one needs about 10dB more level than at 1m, but you have 2 speakers, so 5dB and a room (say another 2dB), so if we want 100 dB peaks, we want (say) 93 dB at the speaker. 2w into an Alpair 10p will do that. I’d recommend a minimum 10w, but how well behaved an amplifier clips is more important than how much power it delivers.
If you want to do 100 dB average we get into small PA type stuff, whe e i do dabble. Long exposure to high level swil damage your hearing. My latest thot experiement.
This one needs at least 3x20w stero amps per channel or so. Should be easily capable of 110-120dB at a guess.
dave
I play with systems that offer other attributes than playing things at hearing damage levels.
Do note that 100 dB peaks (ie 80-90 dB average, likley closer to your needs, still LOUD), is very different than 100 dB average.
There are lots of WAWs that will reach the required levels for the former, and some FRs that don’t loose it when pushed. I imagine a big horn.
At 10’ (say 3m) one needs about 10dB more level than at 1m, but you have 2 speakers, so 5dB and a room (say another 2dB), so if we want 100 dB peaks, we want (say) 93 dB at the speaker. 2w into an Alpair 10p will do that. I’d recommend a minimum 10w, but how well behaved an amplifier clips is more important than how much power it delivers.
If you want to do 100 dB average we get into small PA type stuff, whe e i do dabble. Long exposure to high level swil damage your hearing. My latest thot experiement.
This one needs at least 3x20w stero amps per channel or so. Should be easily capable of 110-120dB at a guess.
dave
Attachments
For your space, yes. I'm guessing you don't like the look of a FHXL/Joan?
For a 2-way, the Nanotyrannus WAW might me another option, and should give deeper bass.
jeff
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Are there any measurements of the Super Pensil 12.2?
How high is the sensitivity? When the baffle step is balanced, it remains around 87dB.
A single chassis that should reproduce deep bass and fine highs at the same time...
I would love to put a Super Pensil next to the Asathor and compare it.😀
How high is the sensitivity? When the baffle step is balanced, it remains around 87dB.
A single chassis that should reproduce deep bass and fine highs at the same time...
I would love to put a Super Pensil next to the Asathor and compare it.😀
Jeff lives with a pair, he is likely. a bit biased ;^)
sPensil12p is very good. Fairly sensitive and plays bigger than you would expect in the bottom. Top is somehwhat vintage which means non-fatiguing, but not as extended.
It will work well with your amplifier and you should be able to easily exceed 100dB paeaks at the listening position (LOUD).
Relatively simple build, the (really sorta needed) holey brace is likely more work than the rest of the box. Most of the builds range from bare MDF boxes (MDF not recommended) that never get finished, thru finished (quality) plywood, bamboo plywood (haven’t seen any of those yet), and hardwood.
An example of a well done brace
Most variant versions rotate the box to put the driver on the side or on the back, or change the aspect ratio.
Some get a bit more creative,
or things like converting the rectangular vent to a semi-circle or other (compatible) shapes.
And if one wants to get carried away, and does not have the WAF issues, you can build a 2nd set and flip them upside down to create a stack — you’d likely want a bigger room thou. Single pairs of SuperPensils have filled some pretty big rooms.
dave
sPensil12p is very good. Fairly sensitive and plays bigger than you would expect in the bottom. Top is somehwhat vintage which means non-fatiguing, but not as extended.
It will work well with your amplifier and you should be able to easily exceed 100dB paeaks at the listening position (LOUD).
Relatively simple build, the (really sorta needed) holey brace is likely more work than the rest of the box. Most of the builds range from bare MDF boxes (MDF not recommended) that never get finished, thru finished (quality) plywood, bamboo plywood (haven’t seen any of those yet), and hardwood.
An example of a well done brace
Most variant versions rotate the box to put the driver on the side or on the back, or change the aspect ratio.
Some get a bit more creative,
or things like converting the rectangular vent to a semi-circle or other (compatible) shapes.
And if one wants to get carried away, and does not have the WAF issues, you can build a 2nd set and flip them upside down to create a stack — you’d likely want a bigger room thou. Single pairs of SuperPensils have filled some pretty big rooms.
dave
So Dave, at what complexity level do FRs start to fall apart? I listen almost exclusively to classical music and opera, and have always been reluctant to try FRs for that reason. I believe that Bob Brines when he used to post here talked about the same issue with FRs and complex music.
Is there a specific FR driver that you think suffers less, or better yet not at all, from this problem?
I might still want to try FRs some day if I could find the right driver for my needs. I'm not concerned as much about the price as the performance with very complex classical music. Think Mahler, Tchaikovsky, Beethoven, Wagner, etc.
91dB. No baffle steo compensation required (at least no one who has built them has felt the need… and the designers of the box and the driver.
I would expect them to be very different. I have not heard Asathor and i would not want to judge it on those i have heard that are similar looking.
dave
What FR? What room? What kind of complexity? How sensitive are you the listener at detecting it starting to fall apart? We’ll assume the amplifier is up to the job (they often are not).
I rarely listen to classical except as backgrond and never opera, but i felt the sa e way for some 3 decades before curiousity had me try some. As crude as they were (in today’s context) they brought something i had not heard before, a seemlessness, and then it was down the rabbit hole. Still smiling.
Something that plays loud with ease and has lots of gain in the bass to give some headroom.
But that often means living with a big driver that suffers more as far as dispersion goes, and is more ragged as you move thru the treble, even down into the midrange with some.
I have heard some loudspeakers that are quite capable even with small amplifiers. But they gave up the fine detail, the DDR, that i personally relish in.
These boxes. Drivers thou ended up tarted up even more, and in the end the had FE166eSReN.
I would suggest that you look to a nice mid-size FR with the idea that you may need to add a helper woofer if you find it falls apart to your ear in your context. You won’t know until you sample something.
A WAW is my goto when i want the FR magic while at the same time dramatically reduce that one issue, extend the bass as far down as you’d like,and can afford. The low XO means one can avoid most of the most worrisome evils of an XO up where drivers are not coincident.
And with your interest in OB, and very few single drivers that can make bass on an OB, a WAW is de rigour.
dave
Can someone tell me i can find more info on the JOAN? I've searched and can't seem to find much.
Actually I already have a pair of AN Ferrite Classic 10s that I could use in a WAW. They sound pretty good, but still not quite what I'm looking for.
As I recall you are not a fan of AN drivers. Anything in particular that you think holds them back? And what would you recommend instead. I'd be willing to invest in some MA or other drivers if they would be better for classical music.
And yes, I'm planning to experiment with OB next, but not necessarily to the total exclusion of everything else.
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That is one i have heard. Even after i tamed it somewhat it had a resonant train strating in the low-mid midrange up. So much that i found them very hard to listen to. I don’t know if that is endemic, i have had a few “pair” that were very far apart which brings up questions of QC issues. It could have been a bad pair.
But do have a listen to them.
Of the MAs the Alpair 12p. is probably best due to its dynamics (due to cone size) and sensitivity). And if it wasn’t enuff it would make a good choice for a midTweeter that handles what you might want to throw at it, even on an OB.
dave
