So all things being equal in regards to rational SPL for critical listening pleasure, I still have yet to find a HF transducer that does a better job at clarity, focus and overall enjoyment than a ribbon......thoughts?
Looking at various recent tweeter measurements from a variety of sites. One of the many aspects of performance I personally corelate to the sound I like is low THD and still lower odd harmonics. The devices that historically have those properties are compression drivers and above a few Khz, ribbons. In the past very few cone and dome devices have that characteristic. Today more do.
That said, since I've found a cone mid and dome tweeter that have lower odd order harmonics and match well with off access response I'm not bothering with CDs and horns and ribbons much.
That said, since I've found a cone mid and dome tweeter that have lower odd order harmonics and match well with off access response I'm not bothering with CDs and horns and ribbons much.
Get a Line Magnetic 597. Replica of the best tweeter in audio history. Or get the WE original, if your able to find it.
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I enjoy my Fountek ribbons very much.
But I dont believe they are the lowest THD HF transducers, perhaps the distortion spectra is more pleasing to my ear?
I also enjoy some dome tweeters, and some cone tweeters.
Those that do not press their resonance "bark" upon the sound, above 2W of input power, and do not have huge breakup directivity bloom.
Warts an all, some cone tweeters have more obvious, and benign flaws in breakup, in a similar way that some full range drivers manage to pull off respectable HF
I have not enjoyed any compression drivers I have heard, and would not know what models they were.
I believe what I dislike about horn loaded CDs is the high Q peaks, which I sense they have in the bandwidth, perhaps it is what Geddes terms HOMs?
They seem to push a "sharpness" that my ear find offensive, and I'm a purist, in that I believe a transducer should not need large amounts (>3dB) of PEQ to sound flat
Ironically, for those that believe they can hear odd harmonics "above a few kHz" (where it is the least likely to be true), I disagree - the relative harshness of odd harmonics in the critical 1-4kHz range, for me, is paramount. (Where it most definitely can be heard, no debate required)
Just my, 2 pennies worth
But I dont believe they are the lowest THD HF transducers, perhaps the distortion spectra is more pleasing to my ear?
I also enjoy some dome tweeters, and some cone tweeters.
Those that do not press their resonance "bark" upon the sound, above 2W of input power, and do not have huge breakup directivity bloom.
Warts an all, some cone tweeters have more obvious, and benign flaws in breakup, in a similar way that some full range drivers manage to pull off respectable HF
I have not enjoyed any compression drivers I have heard, and would not know what models they were.
I believe what I dislike about horn loaded CDs is the high Q peaks, which I sense they have in the bandwidth, perhaps it is what Geddes terms HOMs?
They seem to push a "sharpness" that my ear find offensive, and I'm a purist, in that I believe a transducer should not need large amounts (>3dB) of PEQ to sound flat
Ironically, for those that believe they can hear odd harmonics "above a few kHz" (where it is the least likely to be true), I disagree - the relative harshness of odd harmonics in the critical 1-4kHz range, for me, is paramount. (Where it most definitely can be heard, no debate required)
Just my, 2 pennies worth
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Electrostatics?
And I can still remember the night in 1968 when a buddy from Bell Labs demo'ed his AR-3 with Ionovac plasma tweeter. Not sure how that would sound tonight, but sure impressed me then with his tape masters of Salome's dance and Walton's Crown Imperial March.
Around then, based on lab testing a group of us did with tone bursts, etc, I built tweeter arrays using 9 domes each. Individual domes seem to exceed human detection thresholds, so just a matter of spinorama performance in your cab.
Apropos the ribbon, maybe as much the sound goodness of dipole radiation you're hearing.... spinorama.
B.
And I can still remember the night in 1968 when a buddy from Bell Labs demo'ed his AR-3 with Ionovac plasma tweeter. Not sure how that would sound tonight, but sure impressed me then with his tape masters of Salome's dance and Walton's Crown Imperial March.
Around then, based on lab testing a group of us did with tone bursts, etc, I built tweeter arrays using 9 domes each. Individual domes seem to exceed human detection thresholds, so just a matter of spinorama performance in your cab.
Apropos the ribbon, maybe as much the sound goodness of dipole radiation you're hearing.... spinorama.
B.
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Something to ponder......
my ribbons are mounted in seperate enclosures that are quite dense.....could it be that with the near elimination of baffle resonance from midbass and bass drivers, i'm experiencing an improved performance over those who's ribbons share a baffle?.....and i only theorize the possibility because the physical nature of the ribbon being so light
my ribbons are mounted in seperate enclosures that are quite dense.....could it be that with the near elimination of baffle resonance from midbass and bass drivers, i'm experiencing an improved performance over those who's ribbons share a baffle?.....and i only theorize the possibility because the physical nature of the ribbon being so light
Do a simple test: I you add a tweeter to the speaker system and it could be heard instantly, then its a bad tweeter or bad implementation.
An excellent tweeter is nearly inaudible, but adds much energy to the music.
Thats how it should sound.
With a WE 597 exactly this will happen. And you'll forget any hyped ribbon, plasma tweeter. And thats the difference between good and the usual consumer quality stuff.
This tweeter exists until the 1930s and still too expensive for most of us.
The answer depends on how you define best. A good ribbon can be very good… the Decca London crossed at 1kHz is a stunner.
But everthing is a compromise.
dave
But everthing is a compromise.
dave
Neo CD 3.5H crossed maybe 4kHz, 2nd order.
I can hear (and ignore the slight energy storage at 1.5k to 2k) the rest is smooth as butter. I cant say the same for any domes I have heard.
My ribbons arent mounted, at all.
They just sit on top of the bass mid boxes, in the way I have seen that old Fostex bullet tweeter used as a supertweet
I agree with Schmitz.
Padded down to the right level, the Fountek ribbon, just blends in, doesnt attract attention, just gives a homogenous whole spectrum sound.
I fell in love with that, particularly, with the spoken voice. Since then, I listen to everything through them (Fountek FW100B, Fountek Neo CD3.5H), TV, movies, radio, CD. All that is missing, is sub bass. And whilst I am a bass head, I dont miss much below 70Hz.
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how about mundorf amt?
or hiquphon or accuton dome tweeters?
neither good enough for ya?
generalizations suck
Generalisations do suck.
But I have a few accurate ones.
Accuton, too expensive for (me) to ever consider purchasing. Bang for buck the Fountek ribbon is very very hard to beat.
Hiquaphon...reputable, and their ribbons (as well as monacor) interest me. I'd give them a whirl, but once you hear dome sound, their failings are all much the same.
Someone would likely make the same generalisation about ribbons
AMT are another ribbon-esque device. Personally I'd love to try them all, the Visaton AMT is probably the most accessible to me, at 5 times the cost of the Fountek....
Sure, if we all had pockets 6 leagues deep, then sod the Mundorf...just go Heil and be done with it.
Maybe I'd just go for 10x Fountek in a line array though �� and still have the money left for 10x mids to accompany them...
But I have a few accurate ones.
Accuton, too expensive for (me) to ever consider purchasing. Bang for buck the Fountek ribbon is very very hard to beat.
Hiquaphon...reputable, and their ribbons (as well as monacor) interest me. I'd give them a whirl, but once you hear dome sound, their failings are all much the same.
Someone would likely make the same generalisation about ribbons
AMT are another ribbon-esque device. Personally I'd love to try them all, the Visaton AMT is probably the most accessible to me, at 5 times the cost of the Fountek....
Sure, if we all had pockets 6 leagues deep, then sod the Mundorf...just go Heil and be done with it.
Maybe I'd just go for 10x Fountek in a line array though �� and still have the money left for 10x mids to accompany them...
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you can have world's best tweeter, if you do not get crossover right, it will not sound like music
execution is important
execution is important
Osho,
I have meditated a lot about this subject and then the solution came: "Use no extra tweeter, you wouldn't hear it anyway". It came right out of the universe, and my medical doc. did a research and told me, the universe is correct (as always!). My mid/ high driver goes right up to 16 Khz. Nothing more needed.
I have meditated a lot about this subject and then the solution came: "Use no extra tweeter, you wouldn't hear it anyway". It came right out of the universe, and my medical doc. did a research and told me, the universe is correct (as always!). My mid/ high driver goes right up to 16 Khz. Nothing more needed.
Hard to say what's "best".
It looks like domes on a nice waveguide might be the best overall tweeter. Consider the Bliesma T34B on a waveguide. You can run it from 1khz all the way out to your hearing limits with very low distortion and more natural dispersion characteristics than a ribbon.
It looks like domes on a nice waveguide might be the best overall tweeter. Consider the Bliesma T34B on a waveguide. You can run it from 1khz all the way out to your hearing limits with very low distortion and more natural dispersion characteristics than a ribbon.
I have heard the WE 597 two or possibly three times at audio shows over the years but in a totally unfamiliar system so all I can say is they did not call attention to themselves. Having the tweeters totally disappear into the music is the goal.
It you do have the hankering to try something somewhat similar:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...9.m570.l1313&_nkw=field+coil+tweeter&_sacat=0
Most of the RAAL tweeters sound very good to excellent. I have a pair of RAAL Lazy ribbons to play with when I have some time. The Lazy ribbons are unique in that there are different transformer taps to match your sensitivity requirements ( up to 111db !!!).Determining the best tweeter in YOUR system depends heavily on the rest speaker system and proper integration.
It you do have the hankering to try something somewhat similar:
https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_fr...9.m570.l1313&_nkw=field+coil+tweeter&_sacat=0
Most of the RAAL tweeters sound very good to excellent. I have a pair of RAAL Lazy ribbons to play with when I have some time. The Lazy ribbons are unique in that there are different transformer taps to match your sensitivity requirements ( up to 111db !!!).Determining the best tweeter in YOUR system depends heavily on the rest speaker system and proper integration.
Not available yet. I believe Mabat and others are working on making them available for purchase in the future.
Although there's a shallow 100x100 12" JBL waveguide that might be interesting to pair with them.
JBL 442730-001 PTH1010HF-1 Waveguide - Speaker Exchange
Also this one.
Waveguide for Audax tweeter TW034 | RumoH - Caps, Coils and Speakers
And this one.
Denovo Audio SEOS-8™ for dome tweeters
Although there's a shallow 100x100 12" JBL waveguide that might be interesting to pair with them.
JBL 442730-001 PTH1010HF-1 Waveguide - Speaker Exchange
Also this one.
Waveguide for Audax tweeter TW034 | RumoH - Caps, Coils and Speakers
And this one.
Denovo Audio SEOS-8™ for dome tweeters
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and how about the vertical dispersion, it can be very limited with longer ribbons, is that an issue?