I asked someone that, Kay, only to be told that the power cable wasn't the last few feet that the equipment sees, but the first few feet!
No, I don't understand the distinction either!
Yes, you could try a cheap one.
Cheapest new screened 3-core I've found was just over £1 for a meter. The last ferrite I bought from my local electronics shop was £0.11
The power cable doesn't have to be expensive in order to provide adequate RF shielding.
Only a special conductor geometry makes 'expensive power cable' expensive.
If you want "braided individual cores in the live and neutral conductors which are small enough not to be affected by eddy currents from adjacent cores" then you have to pay for the privilege!
It can help if that is where the problem lies. If it isn't, it doesn't. Simple as. But since it shouldn't cost more than about £5 to try if you have such issues, and the time taken is about 2 minutes, it's hardly an endevour likely to cause distress.
Works both ways, but you're more likely to have issues with RFI entering rather than your own gear causing issues. As noted, in the majority of cases, neither are an issue, but 'majority' has not, to the best of my knowledge, suddenly become a synonym for 'every'.
So do I, but
a/ Not everybody shares our ability to do that, as it requires a skillset a little more advanced than screwing a plug onto the end of a piece of wire, and
b/ As noted several times, a screened piece of wire and / or a ferrite clamp should cost very little, and nobody (certainly not me) has suggested spending significant sums of money.
RFI has zero chance of getting thru that big power company transformer down the street. (But arcs and sparks are a different matter)
AD mains wiring is a poor Radio Frequency transmission line, so the nearer the receiver or transmitter the greater the signal.
Ferrite chokes can reduce RFI entrance or exit. But they need to be correctly chosen and placed.
Most RFI filters work at higher frequencies than SMPS noise.
After some interesting analysis of the filtering capability of power cables, particularly in relation to the UK where power sockets provide three wire, nominally unbalanced, power for domestic hi-fi equipment, Jim Lesurf agrees with you, Kay!
Read his views on cable geometry, ferrite materials, RF impedances and multi-mode RF propogation here: RF interference rejection by mains cables?
I'm sure most will, but some who focus mostly on, say, speakers (or those just starting out for that matter), will probably have less than those who devote more of their attention to electronics. I know some who wouldn't know one end of a soldering iron from the other, so I would be a little reticent at turning them loose on the internals of their electronics.
Personally I use power cables discarded from the boxes of network equipment which we receive at work. This is typically the British and Schuko style terminated cables. I have made myself custom power strips with both UK and Schuko receptacles. We have a different cable standard here, which means nothing else can be plugged into my dedicated feeds. They do the job. I have never known a power cable to affect the sound quality of my system. All the cables are either 10 or 16 amp rated, except where they are captive to the equipment (turntables and one or two older CD players.)
P.S. Also have IEC input with filters fitted directly into the amps and DIY equipment. And none of my equipment has SMPS units. Where wallwarts were provided, I built suitably rated transformer-in-a-steel-case PSUs (with relevant regulator if required)
P.S. Also have IEC input with filters fitted directly into the amps and DIY equipment. And none of my equipment has SMPS units. Where wallwarts were provided, I built suitably rated transformer-in-a-steel-case PSUs (with relevant regulator if required)
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I doubt many people would argue on that front.
Lads -if I may make a suggestion? The OP has, with all the dark inevitability of Greek Tragedy, not reappeared after his first post, which was clearly designed to bait members (the prose style is familiar to those with long memories, but it's civil to give the benefit of the doubt for a while). Let's let the thread quietly die out here and use our precious leisure time on something actually worth it.
Lads -if I may make a suggestion? The OP has, with all the dark inevitability of Greek Tragedy, not reappeared after his first post, which was clearly designed to bait members (the prose style is familiar to those with long memories, but it's civil to give the benefit of the doubt for a while). Let's let the thread quietly die out here and use our precious leisure time on something actually worth it.
Really?
You call that not agreeing with you?
Open minded? Yes
Calling nonsense nonsense instead of brave ideas and different thinking?
Maybe it shows honesty?
Now you are insulting those who demand proof and honesty.
You are not an Engineer.
NO Engineer will diss Science, the very base of his métier.
R&D is based on Science.
Yes, by new and more perfect Science, not by wild unproven claims.
Yes, and is replaced by better understanding and explanations.
New and different must also be better, more accurate.
How would YOU know?
Links please?
Ok, show your new or improved Physics Laws.
By the way, every year Nobel Prizes are awarded for such things.
dropping names won´t help you if they don´t explicitly support some of your wild claims.
None of which you mentioned so far, you are just levelling the field.
Nobody claimed anything so far, you neither, but your expected reaction does not inspire trust in what you may say.
So? What´s your point?
You condone scamming and fraud?
Said the Architect building multi storied buildings.
Pity.
I must have built 8000/10000 power cables so far, for the last few years I use custom made ones.
No reason to spend time making such an utilitarian component, with NO influence on Audio quality.
No, you have not. Definitely.
You can not listen to what does not have a sound of its own.
Hope it can stand being thrown inside the Sun.
None does.
Nonsense/bullsh*t/lie.
Nonsense/lie.
No audible difference possible.
Glad you put a price limit to your nonsense.
Although that limit is nonsense by itself.
Funny you are beating the drums for such a concept.
No "good sounding" cables exist.
Those will probably be *comopetent* mains power carrying cables, but NO sound of their own, either way.
No, my brain still works properly, don´t hear voices, etc.
What if I do NOT believe in such "recipes"?
I have listened to amps with my handmade cables side by side with OEM made ones, NO difference attributable to mains cables.
Any approved mains cable is fine.
Any approved mains plug is fine.
Your local hardware store is enough.
"All" possible combinations? A Herculean task.
A few competent perfectly working ones?
Easy peasy, in a couple hours you can test all *sensible* combinations.
If you want to include battery starting wire or arc welding types, it may take a little longer.
IF ANYTHING is the code word here.
And everywhere else.
It may look good and even be very strong, so ifnthat´s important to you, ´lease helpyourself.
As of "sound" ... you will be disappointed.
Problem with thatvratio is that price will vary, performance will not.
We are getting reasonable.
For the 100th time, there will NOT be any sound variation.
You do really have low self esteem, do you?
Or is it a passive-aggressive way to get attention? (even if negative)
FWIW you already have mine.
What about NO influence?
In a double blind test of course.
Any idea that AC power cords can affect the sound heard from a quality amplifier is just plain silly. People who promote this idea don’t understand how an amplifier works.
The actual circuits than amplify the sound and deliver the current needed to the speakers are powered by DC voltages. Those voltages are created by a power supply using generally either a linear set of components or a digital switching approach. But in either case, the output voltage and current from the power supply is far removed from any influence of the power cord.
The one area of possible problem is high frequency noise that might be picked up by the power cord and somehow introduced into the amplifier. However, with proper shielding and grounding this problem can be completely eliminated. And doing so is accomplished at very low cost.
Much like speaker cables, the only real parameter of interest in AC power cables is the resistance. Provided that the gauge of the AC power cable is of sufficient size to support the current required by the amplifier, the rest of its make up is not important and can in no way whatsoever be heard in the speakers or by the listener.
The fundamental laws of electronics have been well understood for almost 200 years. Despite the claims of those who think they hear something from different AC power cords there are no new discoveries or hidden magical things happening.
As I said at the beginning it is all just plain silly. And despite the OP’s self claimed background it shows a complete lack of understanding of basic electronics.
The actual circuits than amplify the sound and deliver the current needed to the speakers are powered by DC voltages. Those voltages are created by a power supply using generally either a linear set of components or a digital switching approach. But in either case, the output voltage and current from the power supply is far removed from any influence of the power cord.
The one area of possible problem is high frequency noise that might be picked up by the power cord and somehow introduced into the amplifier. However, with proper shielding and grounding this problem can be completely eliminated. And doing so is accomplished at very low cost.
Much like speaker cables, the only real parameter of interest in AC power cables is the resistance. Provided that the gauge of the AC power cable is of sufficient size to support the current required by the amplifier, the rest of its make up is not important and can in no way whatsoever be heard in the speakers or by the listener.
The fundamental laws of electronics have been well understood for almost 200 years. Despite the claims of those who think they hear something from different AC power cords there are no new discoveries or hidden magical things happening.
As I said at the beginning it is all just plain silly. And despite the OP’s self claimed background it shows a complete lack of understanding of basic electronics.
It's not about the measurement. The most influential factor of one's hearing ability is his bias. Subjectivists are biased by snake oil theories, so they can clearly hear the difference, and the objectivists are biased by the ghetto science, so their brain refuses to hear the difference, hence no difference. We have seen countless discussions about this on this forum, and no conclusion.
I don't know what you mean by 'ghetto science'. The science behind electronic reproduction of sound is very real. It is well understood and has been for many years.
I someone wants to claim that an AC power cord can affect the sound produced by the speaker then they will have explain the exact mechanism by which that occurs in electronic terms. And that has not been done.
So yes, claims that AC power cords can enhance the sound are very much snake oil.
I someone wants to claim that an AC power cord can affect the sound produced by the speaker then they will have explain the exact mechanism by which that occurs in electronic terms. And that has not been done.
So yes, claims that AC power cords can enhance the sound are very much snake oil.
Scottmoose,s post #31 makes good sense , while "front page " news sells newspapers those versed in engineering and practical down to earth mindsets will know reality .
Everything has to be proved like JLH had to prove his theories on capacitor differences which was backed up not by subjectivity but by a capacitor design engineer measuring the actual distortion in various types of capacitors .
If DIY Audio was called "the Music Website " then maybe it would be worth talking about but this is a down to earth , practical audio website giving out realistic and measurable advice --surely that the way it should stay otherwise how will its prestige stand up ?
Everything has to be proved like JLH had to prove his theories on capacitor differences which was backed up not by subjectivity but by a capacitor design engineer measuring the actual distortion in various types of capacitors .
If DIY Audio was called "the Music Website " then maybe it would be worth talking about but this is a down to earth , practical audio website giving out realistic and measurable advice --surely that the way it should stay otherwise how will its prestige stand up ?
Even further to the point that’s why this website is far superior to AudioCircle for useful and practical information. That website is primarily funded and controlled by manufacturers who each have their own ‘circle’. And posters are not allowed to criticize or contradict statements on those circles.
So if a power cord manufacturer wants to claim his product will improve the sound quality, no one can disagree. It’s not allowed. And that’s because you might hurt his business. It has nothing to do with reality or science. It’s all about dollars.
Trust me on this. I have personal experience not being allowed to offer legitimate criticisms there. So everyone please spend your time here where your comments are appreciated.
So if a power cord manufacturer wants to claim his product will improve the sound quality, no one can disagree. It’s not allowed. And that’s because you might hurt his business. It has nothing to do with reality or science. It’s all about dollars.
Trust me on this. I have personal experience not being allowed to offer legitimate criticisms there. So everyone please spend your time here where your comments are appreciated.
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