In my opinion even the best speakers system may sound weird in your room, when the speakers are wrong located.
Last week I finished my project and I was very satisfied by the results overall. While I made a listening tests and fine tuning the speakers were located almost in the middle of the room (more than 1m away from any of the walls and at least at 2m distance each other) and I was able to feel the band playing within my room, even walking around the speakers. That was a great experience for me.
Once I moved the speakers back against the wall then the "magic" just disappear - the sound is still well tonally balanced, but became flat and coming right from the speakers.
Last week I finished my project and I was very satisfied by the results overall. While I made a listening tests and fine tuning the speakers were located almost in the middle of the room (more than 1m away from any of the walls and at least at 2m distance each other) and I was able to feel the band playing within my room, even walking around the speakers. That was a great experience for me.
Once I moved the speakers back against the wall then the "magic" just disappear - the sound is still well tonally balanced, but became flat and coming right from the speakers.
Good point...the ability to place our speakers for optimum sound is a huge factor towards enjoyment.
Floyd Toole quoted Hugh Brittain's prioritized order of speaker enjoyment with Toole's comments in brackets. Chapter 5.1 The Wisdom of the Ancients.
As Cal Weldon says, some do that if they have a rather elaborate 4-element volume control and if you do gain management to track absolute volume at your chair.
Famous Kenwood Basic pre-amp, 2nd version.
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Not to mention having great sources. Here's a wonderful brief piece - from YouTube and a movie soundtrack confection, but great. The big drum is 30 Hz on my RTA.
Camp Ivanhoe Cadence Medley - YouTube
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Camp Ivanhoe Cadence Medley - YouTube
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Hi Cal, any idea how automatic loudness was implemented ?
Any links?
I've had a few ideas, but they're all been either too coarse, or too complicated....
Thx.
I had a bid floor standing RCA radio from the 1930s that had loudness linked to the volume control. It's long been thought of.
FWIW, JRiver Media Player allows you to do the same thing, and also to set the neutral point.
FWIW, JRiver Media Player allows you to do the same thing, and also to set the neutral point.
Yep, I've had old gear that had a knob or switch labeled loudness.
My guess is that it was probably just a single EQ or maybe two at best. And very unlikely to really follow Fletcher Munson very well. But just a guess.
I'll try to do some transfers of JRiver...see how it works. My bet's on maybe a couple of shelving filters...which may work pretty well...??
My guess is that it was probably just a single EQ or maybe two at best. And very unlikely to really follow Fletcher Munson very well. But just a guess.
I'll try to do some transfers of JRiver...see how it works. My bet's on maybe a couple of shelving filters...which may work pretty well...??
Was loudness control just to compensate for bad speakers and amps, the speakers had no top or bottom, so at low volume the loudness boosted them; at higher volume the amp and speaker would distort, or distort more audibly.
Loudness control was to compensate for your ears inability to listen in a linear manner when the SPL changed. It is known as the Fletcher Munson curve(s). Basically your ear will not perceive bass and to a lesser extent the treble when the SPL is lower, hence the bass, and again sometimes the treble boost when activated.
Yes a lot of people with smaller speakers would just leave it on all the time.
What we were touching on is that in some units, the amount of compensation automatically decreased as the volume was increased. No I don't know how it worked but I had a Fisher Class AII integrated amp that did it and another brand that I can't remember. The Fisher loudness was a bass boost only, no treble.
Yes a lot of people with smaller speakers would just leave it on all the time.
What we were touching on is that in some units, the amount of compensation automatically decreased as the volume was increased. No I don't know how it worked but I had a Fisher Class AII integrated amp that did it and another brand that I can't remember. The Fisher loudness was a bass boost only, no treble.
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The loudness switch on my marantz 2285b was used to boost bass and treble frequencies at low volume. It changed the tonal balance to compensate for our hearing characteristics.
Cal beat me to it. 🙂
Cal beat me to it. 🙂
They usually used a potentiometer with a 30% loudness tap. Inject the signal on the tap with more bass and treble compared to the top of the element.
The subject of loudness controls comes around quite often and then disappears again, I think there are reasons this happens and why you don't often see them.
My biggest factor for enjoyment without a question is Spotify. CD's were going for about 15 bucks a piece which gave me 12 songs by one artist maybe. For a fraction of that a month I get access to millions of songs.
I enjoy audio toy stores on the net.
I like active systems with a sound processor, multiple amps with gain controls and a decent dac hooked up to the net.
I enjoy audio toy stores on the net.
I like active systems with a sound processor, multiple amps with gain controls and a decent dac hooked up to the net.
Just took a quick look at JRiver's "Loudness" found under Player, Playback Options, Volume. Didn't see anything about loudness in DSP Studio. MC24.
Had to use an RTA, which i despise, because i don't know how to simultaneously compare JRiver without Loudness to JRiver with ...like in a real transfer function.
It appears JRiver applies about a +3dB low shelf that starts gently climbing somewhere around 250Hz, to reack full boost at about 30Hz.
There may also be a small +1dB high shelf that starts at about 10k. Not sure here....did i say i hate RTA's? lol
Anyway, as simple as that is, it gets simpler ......afaict the boost is completely level independent. Hope I'm wrong....
Cal, per your post showing the contours.... automatic compensation that follows those curves is what i'd like to find / build /play with....
Anybody seen such an animal?
Had to use an RTA, which i despise, because i don't know how to simultaneously compare JRiver without Loudness to JRiver with ...like in a real transfer function.
It appears JRiver applies about a +3dB low shelf that starts gently climbing somewhere around 250Hz, to reack full boost at about 30Hz.
There may also be a small +1dB high shelf that starts at about 10k. Not sure here....did i say i hate RTA's? lol
Anyway, as simple as that is, it gets simpler ......afaict the boost is completely level independent. Hope I'm wrong....
Cal, per your post showing the contours.... automatic compensation that follows those curves is what i'd like to find / build /play with....
Anybody seen such an animal?
Yes, that's the useless garbagey "loudness" control. Pure marketing illusion. Basically, just adds 6dB/8ave bass boost when the knob is below the tap or something like that. Some folks might like the difference, but really just cosmetics and a crap-shoot if it helps your particular system.
Yes, bass boost makes many small speakers sound better whether labeled loudness or tone control or DSP/EQ.
F-M curves do not change colour appreciably in the treble with how loud the music is, just the bass.
See post #65 for details and Kenwood pre-amp for circuit (hint: very complicated). With 4-gang VC you can get real good F-M compensation. But, it can't be automatic because you must track the gain as as to be correct at your chair. If your CD player is a little louder than your FM radio, won't work.
But, ahem, ahem, if done properly, and if you have little kids sleeping in your house when you want to hear music that has to be played softly, a real nice feature. When set up properly, it does "automatically" remove itself from operations when you crank up the VC so no need to ever fiddle with it.
mark100 - JRiver sounds like the same junk described above. Anyway, JRiver does not know how loud is the sound at your chair and that is crucial if you want anything smarter than a bass EQ.
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