So you want to demonstrate that there are zero phono amps with pentode input stages? OMG, you must live on another planet or must be very late to believe in this...study the list I've given and do your own studies for yourself.
Maybe you read again what I've written. Did I write about phono tube pentode preamps in special? NOPE.
Btw, thats all offtopic stuff. The intention of the thread was to know about the sound of a Marantz 7 compared to its high collector price.
Can you say something about the topic or just criticize others for delivering content?
I've made my statement to the sound of this Marantz preamp.
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Ultimately, if there is no A / B comparison between the Marantz 7 and the other preamplifier (s) to be compared, with the same sound source, the same acoustic cabinets and in the same place, everything will be totally subjective ..... and Even so, it will not be the same as what I or someone else hears, we all listen differently. And not everyone knows that they should listen, personal tastes do not serve here, the music we perceive must be as similar as possible to the original instrument. (acoustic, not electronic)
I have done comparisons of acoustic cabinets and amplifiers many times, a 12 volt reversing double switch / relay makes it easy. Nothing special. The same will be for the preamp.
I have done comparisons of acoustic cabinets and amplifiers many times, a 12 volt reversing double switch / relay makes it easy. Nothing special. The same will be for the preamp.
So the correct answer to that is:
It depends on your pocket and how much you are willing to spend.
If someone has experience, a trained listening and refined hearing (it has nothing to do with an audible hyper- bandwith hearing ability) and a taste for the good things in life thats worth time spending with, he (or she) can easily recognize differences without using a 12 volt reverse switch/ relay in a double blindfold test setting. There are some parameters that characterize every audio gear and that could be store for a long time in the humans brain. Even elephants can recognize a person 50 years later just from remembering the sound of the voice. Why should a human being not be able to do the trick? There are some basic characteristics that can be burned very deep in the human brain and being at every time ready for restoring this audio- image.
I won't say that a direct comparison is best, but if you are connaisseur in a special field of taste, you won't be able to have two things at hand for comparison all the time. You have to make your decision upon the stored experiences in the brain (its called expertise) and without an A/B blind comparison. Thats what every expert is doing on many fields of expertise everyday and what they get paid for.
I won't say that a direct comparison is best, but if you are connaisseur in a special field of taste, you won't be able to have two things at hand for comparison all the time. You have to make your decision upon the stored experiences in the brain (its called expertise) and without an A/B blind comparison. Thats what every expert is doing on many fields of expertise everyday and what they get paid for.
Is it so strange that in a topic about the Marantz 7, and you writing about easily replacing two triodes by a pentode like the EF86, and about the Marantz 7 being cheap consumer gear, that I assume you were writing about the phono stage in the Marantz 7, or phono stages in general?
By the way: The gain of one section of the 12AX7 in the Marantz is something like 40 to 50. So the first two triode sections in the Marantz combined have a gain of 40 x 40 = 2000 to 50 x 50 = 2500 before applying feedback/filtering. Such gain is impossible with just one EF86.
I don't criticize others for delivering content. I criticize content that I think is not correct.
The correct answer is: it depends on taste and taste is always subjective and therefore it could not be an objective answer.
To me, those old tube gear is not comparable to new audio and when I read standards, then we have to discuss who sets those standards and what represents them. In fact, no standards exist without measuring but that isn't able to fully judge the human ears hearing abilities and thats why in the end every audio component is judged by the ears and not by measures. Same with photographica lens, the last judgement comes from the human eye and thats what counts.
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If you are so into details (nitpicking), just be serious.
Its correct and you wrote it: you assume something. That means, an interpretation has been done. But obviously it leads towards the wrong conclusion.
Did I write the two sections of the Marantz model 7 could be easily swapped into a high mu pentode?
You pick an extreme example of one of the highest mu triode and try to sign me for statements I've never done.
What are you and what is your aim about that? You deliver nothing about the authors initial subjects and questions, but try to misunderstand other people and pull them a knit about it?
Reverse what others have written just to prove your right? Poor fellow, maybe put your arguments anywhere else but it has no space here.
It was an argument for ages that a pentode has such high amplification and internal resistance that it could replace (in many cases!) two triodes.
I'm not the inventor and it wasn't my original idea. Blame the physics.
Study the books, do the homework and then maybe come back to this place and put some constructive experiences on the table instead of spreading destructive arguments against others.
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Some more 'ad hominem' arguments from your side (and violating the forum rules in the process).
I didn't 'pick' an extreme example. You were writing about the 12AX7, and the Marantz 7 uses them. A gain of 40 to 50 (or even higher) is normal for a section of a 12AX7.
I didn't 'pick' an extreme example. You were writing about the 12AX7, and the Marantz 7 uses them. A gain of 40 to 50 (or even higher) is normal for a section of a 12AX7.
This discussion has drifted quite far off topic and the tone has become pretty confrontational as well. This thread is close to violating forum rules, if this trend continues the thread will be closed. Thank you.
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Thanks to the internet I have all the details needed to clone his Claret preamp, although there were multiple versions, some had more tubes like the Marantz but most of them had a shorter signal path. It might be a nice winter project.
A bit Off Topic but I also have the details of his earlier Cortese, only I’m reluctant to use an overpriced tube in the F2a which leaves KT88 as an alternative. I know he used the same circuit, more or less, with a 300B in the early days; later his son changed the circuit. Maybe I will make a Cortese with a power triode, I have an 845 sitting idle.
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Look, I've been on the subject of audio for many years, and I've never heard a comparison of elephant memory with human auditory memory. That doesn't make sense, they are totally off the hook. Do you want them to close the thread? Go ahead ........ continue .......🙄
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why not slow down, think further about this comment from Schmitz77 - isn’t he just saying that people develop experience and a heightened well developed sense in their area of expertise. Isn’t he suggesting that a wine expert knows a good wine when it’s tasted without recourse to an AB comparison based on the learned memory of a hundred fine glasses? And why would we not have people who recognize a fine violin on hearing it, or a good hi-fi...... ?
Of course, if you are not very familiar with the sound of a Marantz 7, then you will need to do an AB comparison to know your feelings better because it is unfamiliar.
Of course, if you are not very familiar with the sound of a Marantz 7, then you will need to do an AB comparison to know your feelings better because it is unfamiliar.
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Very long time ago i owned a Marantz 7 and i still have the matching 8B amp.
An engineer of VIETA Barcelona modified the preamp , a switch bypass for the equalizer and many improvements made the sound ultra clear with a big soundstage.Telefunken ecc83 are the right tube.
My following equipment a Jeff Rowland preamp and british exposure amp wasn't better .
All these modifications in search of the perfect sound are an economic disaster in the world of the original. EX: the 2 elna cerafine replacing the original caps.
An engineer of VIETA Barcelona modified the preamp , a switch bypass for the equalizer and many improvements made the sound ultra clear with a big soundstage.Telefunken ecc83 are the right tube.
My following equipment a Jeff Rowland preamp and british exposure amp wasn't better .
All these modifications in search of the perfect sound are an economic disaster in the world of the original. EX: the 2 elna cerafine replacing the original caps.
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i first did the CCDA, then the AIKIDO, those who got the CCDA i loaned out the aikido, and all of them came back tome saying they much preffered the CCDA....not scientific, but the opinions of my clients matter to me....
i did not measure, but i think the 2H in the CCDA is greater than that of the aikido....to me the aikido is very much like a very good sounding ss amp...
there are a lot of clones coming out of Hong Kong and China about the Marantz 7 preamp...
i saw one used the 6au6, 6v6 combination, triode wired of course...and i did a 13fm7 clone of the same theme....
it seemed the Marantz 7 topology is it, just happened to use the 12ax7, there are other tubes than the 12ax7....
i saw one used the 6au6, 6v6 combination, triode wired of course...and i did a 13fm7 clone of the same theme....
it seemed the Marantz 7 topology is it, just happened to use the 12ax7, there are other tubes than the 12ax7....
humans, i believe excel in the visual memory, aural memory is short lived unlike in the elephants...
otoh, the gear that gave me lasting impressions was a mono power amp from a "claire de lune" console that had a 6bq5 pp amp....i can still hear it in my mind since the 70's....
for me, listening to a setup that gave me goose bumps is it, don't care if tubes or ss.....if what i heard evoked a feeling of wellness, if i was swayed to tap my feet....i know that i heard a good facsimile of the original sound....😎