Hi all,
After the highly successful build of my Woden Bloodhounds (thanks so much for all the help!!), my buddy saw them and wants me to build him something for his living room/TV space.
He just wants something better than his current TV sound, with maybe going to surround in the future. I'm thinking a decent 2.1 setup with a small dedicated amp at the moment might be his best option for price and flexibility.
His space is fairly large and open (maybe 18'x22'), with very high ceilings (~12'), hardwood floors, exposed masonry/plaster walls. It's a renovated upstairs store space. Very cool pad, actually. 😉
Anyway, as much as I'd love to build him something from scratch, I don't want to do him a disservice by not suggesting he buy a pre-built set, if that would be the best solution for now.
If building, I was thinking about maybe something floor-standing, but slim. I've seen a beautiful design with a curved back panel, can't recall the name now.
I was leaning towards just buying a sub for now, since I'm not up for a sub build I don't think. I was thinking about the BIC Acoustech H-100II, unless you folks know of a better option for the money?
So what do we think, buy or build?
I'll try to answer any questions I can. Thanks in advance for all the great info I know I'm about to get. You guys are awesome! 😀
After the highly successful build of my Woden Bloodhounds (thanks so much for all the help!!), my buddy saw them and wants me to build him something for his living room/TV space.
He just wants something better than his current TV sound, with maybe going to surround in the future. I'm thinking a decent 2.1 setup with a small dedicated amp at the moment might be his best option for price and flexibility.
His space is fairly large and open (maybe 18'x22'), with very high ceilings (~12'), hardwood floors, exposed masonry/plaster walls. It's a renovated upstairs store space. Very cool pad, actually. 😉
Anyway, as much as I'd love to build him something from scratch, I don't want to do him a disservice by not suggesting he buy a pre-built set, if that would be the best solution for now.
If building, I was thinking about maybe something floor-standing, but slim. I've seen a beautiful design with a curved back panel, can't recall the name now.
I was leaning towards just buying a sub for now, since I'm not up for a sub build I don't think. I was thinking about the BIC Acoustech H-100II, unless you folks know of a better option for the money?
So what do we think, buy or build?
I'll try to answer any questions I can. Thanks in advance for all the great info I know I'm about to get. You guys are awesome! 😀
My initial reaction is: before you spend any money, check out the acoustics of the space!!
A large space with nothing but hard surfaces is going to sound like an echo chamber. If that should prove to be the situation, then unless serious room treatments are applied, the sound will be poor no matter how good the speakers.
Cheers, Jim
A large space with nothing but hard surfaces is going to sound like an echo chamber. If that should prove to be the situation, then unless serious room treatments are applied, the sound will be poor no matter how good the speakers.
Cheers, Jim
Thanks Jim, but other than the fact that I've been there briefly once, I have no way of checking anything. I can't go there, due to COVID restrictions, and I seriously doubt they will do anything significant to the room to change the acoustics. We'll just have to work with what we have.
Hi Elmojo. Let me attempt a recommendation as I have some very satisfied friends who had the same need.
If you are looking for easy to build, slim, floorstanding full range speakers – look no further than the amazing TABAQ speakers. They sound much better than they look and much bigger than they appear. And, they will sound much much much better than your friend’s TV sound. Two of my friends have them and a third friend is also busy building a set after he heard the others. They all used the (recommended by Bjorn himself) Peerless P830987 drivers, which sound amazing when driven with a good amp. The drivers are not very efficient, so you need some power (25W per channel). The TABAQ thread is a long thread, but if you need info you can PM me.
TABAQ TL for Tang Band
A 2.1 setup will sound even better in the bass department. Here you can look at something like this, recommended by some forum members:
Amazon.com: Polk Audio PSW10 10" Powered Subwoofer - Power Port Technology | Up to 100 Watts | Big Bass in Compact Design | Easy Setup with Home Theater Systems: Home Audio & Theater
Then you will need a good amp. A TPA3116D2 amp will be perfect. It will need to be a 2.1 or 5 channel amp. I am not familiar with 5 channel amps, but there are plenty of options for 2.1 TPA3116 based amps with or without Bluetooth. Something like this will work great:
Amazon.com: Nobsound 2.1 Channel Bluetooth 5.0 Amplifier, Class D Stereo Audio Amplifier, Mini Home Theater Power Amp, Digital Power Subwoofer Amplifier Receiver, 100W+50Wx2, Treble&Bass Control (NS-14G PRO): Home Audio & Theater
Hope it helps.
If you are looking for easy to build, slim, floorstanding full range speakers – look no further than the amazing TABAQ speakers. They sound much better than they look and much bigger than they appear. And, they will sound much much much better than your friend’s TV sound. Two of my friends have them and a third friend is also busy building a set after he heard the others. They all used the (recommended by Bjorn himself) Peerless P830987 drivers, which sound amazing when driven with a good amp. The drivers are not very efficient, so you need some power (25W per channel). The TABAQ thread is a long thread, but if you need info you can PM me.
TABAQ TL for Tang Band
A 2.1 setup will sound even better in the bass department. Here you can look at something like this, recommended by some forum members:
Amazon.com: Polk Audio PSW10 10" Powered Subwoofer - Power Port Technology | Up to 100 Watts | Big Bass in Compact Design | Easy Setup with Home Theater Systems: Home Audio & Theater
Then you will need a good amp. A TPA3116D2 amp will be perfect. It will need to be a 2.1 or 5 channel amp. I am not familiar with 5 channel amps, but there are plenty of options for 2.1 TPA3116 based amps with or without Bluetooth. Something like this will work great:
Amazon.com: Nobsound 2.1 Channel Bluetooth 5.0 Amplifier, Class D Stereo Audio Amplifier, Mini Home Theater Power Amp, Digital Power Subwoofer Amplifier Receiver, 100W+50Wx2, Treble&Bass Control (NS-14G PRO): Home Audio & Theater
Hope it helps.
Forgot to add – those curved speakers are probably Frugal Horns you are referring to. Slightly more involved to build and they need some breathing space at the back to sound their best. They take up a bit more real estate than slim floorstanders. I build a set of the Frugal Horn Lites (with TC9FD18 drivers) for my brother-in-law and they compare very well to the TABAQs. We later upgraded the Lites to the big Frugal Horn XLs with Alpair 10M drivers. These speakers will blow your friend away and he might not even need a sub. Here is the link to the Frugal Horn Lites (the smallest of the Frugal Horn family):
Frugel-Horn Lite for 3" drivers
Just google for the bigger brothers - Frugal Horn MK3 and FHXL
@twocents: Thanks so much, that is EXACTLY the type of info I was hoping for!! Direct recommendations from someone who has been through this before. Thanks!
Couple questions if you don't mind...
1) I've heard great things about that Polk sub. Would it be a better option than the BIC H-100 I linked above? If so, why? It's about half the price, which I really like, but I don't think he'd mind spending a little more if the BIC is a superior sub. I was wondering about how to connect it properly, since the small amps I was looking at didn't have dedicated LFE outputs. I notice that the Polk and BIC have speaker level inputs. Is that the solution? The BIC also has speaker outputs...? Is that sort of a pass-through in case your aren't using a 2.1 amp?
2) I had thought about TABAQs initially, but I was concerned that they wouldn't have enough 'oomph' to fill the room, since it's fairly large, with high ceilings and hard walls. He has plenty of space around his TV to the sides, but I'm not sure about how far off the wall I could get them. Do you think they would do the job in a room that size, with a sub? Would I need to build in a crossover of some sort, so the main speakers weren't straining to produce the lower freqs at higher volumes?
3) In my perusing, I also ran across this kit from P-E. Not exactly true DIY, but since these are for someone else, I want them to come out as nice as possible. How do you think they would compare to a set of TABAQs? Obviously they are far more money, but worth it or no? I would likely veneer them with something nice like Cherry or Walnut.
Couple questions if you don't mind...
1) I've heard great things about that Polk sub. Would it be a better option than the BIC H-100 I linked above? If so, why? It's about half the price, which I really like, but I don't think he'd mind spending a little more if the BIC is a superior sub. I was wondering about how to connect it properly, since the small amps I was looking at didn't have dedicated LFE outputs. I notice that the Polk and BIC have speaker level inputs. Is that the solution? The BIC also has speaker outputs...? Is that sort of a pass-through in case your aren't using a 2.1 amp?
2) I had thought about TABAQs initially, but I was concerned that they wouldn't have enough 'oomph' to fill the room, since it's fairly large, with high ceilings and hard walls. He has plenty of space around his TV to the sides, but I'm not sure about how far off the wall I could get them. Do you think they would do the job in a room that size, with a sub? Would I need to build in a crossover of some sort, so the main speakers weren't straining to produce the lower freqs at higher volumes?
3) In my perusing, I also ran across this kit from P-E. Not exactly true DIY, but since these are for someone else, I want them to come out as nice as possible. How do you think they would compare to a set of TABAQs? Obviously they are far more money, but worth it or no? I would likely veneer them with something nice like Cherry or Walnut.
Ok, now you are asking stuff that I cannot really answer. Others will have to chime in here.
It looks like you are not clear on the objectives here. Since you have built the Bloodhounds, I assumed that you have tasted the magic of simple full range speakers and wanted something similar for your buddy. Not sure if your buddy actually heard the Bloodhounds? What is the application and expectation here? Is it just better sound than the TV, is it for home theater, or is it more about the sound quality, sound stage, imaging, etc. that full range speakers can bring? My recommendation applies to the latter – getting great sound quality from a simple (and relatively cheap) setup if you are prepared to diy. My recommendation is for listening to music at moderate listening levels – not for home theater, parties, or trying to impress the neighbors.
Regarding Polk PSW10 vs BIC H-100 – I have not heard any of them. Although these subs are “affordable” on Amazon, it costs an arm and a leg to get them across the Atlantic to our side of the world. So, we build our own passive subs and that is a mine field on its own. My guess is that there will only be a subtle difference between those two subs in your friends house, depending on the application. The only people that might hear a difference are the neighbors, with the BIC going up to 115dB. By that time the full rangers are blown.
Comparing a speaker (Parts Express kit) with two woofers and a tweeter to a simple speaker box with a single 3” FR driver is totally unfair. And it gets back to what do you want from it and how is it going to be applied?
You are asking questions on a Full Range forum, so you will get answers that relate. A 2.1 system is really just a simple implementation of WAW (woofer assisted wideband), but it can get much more complicated quickly when one considers different implementations of this. DSP being one of the more popular options. But I am totally out of depth here. I can only answer on what I have heard and done myself.
It looks like you are not clear on the objectives here. Since you have built the Bloodhounds, I assumed that you have tasted the magic of simple full range speakers and wanted something similar for your buddy. Not sure if your buddy actually heard the Bloodhounds? What is the application and expectation here? Is it just better sound than the TV, is it for home theater, or is it more about the sound quality, sound stage, imaging, etc. that full range speakers can bring? My recommendation applies to the latter – getting great sound quality from a simple (and relatively cheap) setup if you are prepared to diy. My recommendation is for listening to music at moderate listening levels – not for home theater, parties, or trying to impress the neighbors.
Regarding Polk PSW10 vs BIC H-100 – I have not heard any of them. Although these subs are “affordable” on Amazon, it costs an arm and a leg to get them across the Atlantic to our side of the world. So, we build our own passive subs and that is a mine field on its own. My guess is that there will only be a subtle difference between those two subs in your friends house, depending on the application. The only people that might hear a difference are the neighbors, with the BIC going up to 115dB. By that time the full rangers are blown.
Comparing a speaker (Parts Express kit) with two woofers and a tweeter to a simple speaker box with a single 3” FR driver is totally unfair. And it gets back to what do you want from it and how is it going to be applied?
You are asking questions on a Full Range forum, so you will get answers that relate. A 2.1 system is really just a simple implementation of WAW (woofer assisted wideband), but it can get much more complicated quickly when one considers different implementations of this. DSP being one of the more popular options. But I am totally out of depth here. I can only answer on what I have heard and done myself.
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Thanks for the insights. I'm sorry if I muddied the waters by introducing that other kit. I realize it's a whole different beast, but I didn't realize it was in such a completely other category, as you seem to be indicating.
To address a couple of things you mentioned...
- He has no neighbors (lives in the upstairs of his business, adjoining businesses are closed at night)
- He's not really the "crank it to 11" type. 🙂 I think "moderate volume" is a great description of how he would be listening. However, the space is pretty large. I'm hoping for him to send me some photos I can share with you guys, for perspective.
- The goal is both better sound from current TV now, with possibility of expanding to a full home theater (5.1 probably) in the future. He will definitely be doing a lot of music listening from his phone or iPad via bluetooth, unless I can find a simple way to provide him a hub to plug into - any thoughts on that?
- I love the lower cost of Polk sub, but would the larger (12") driver and higher wattage of the BIC be generally a better thing for filling the space, or not necessarily?
- Speaking of driver size, you make a good point about the 3" driver in the towers. As much as I love the TABAQ design (Looking hard at the FrugelHorn Mk3 also), is there a version of either of those cabinets to your knowledge that uses a larger driver?
I intend to search both threads, but man those are some long reads! lol
Thanks again for all your advice, this is helping refine the project tremendously!
To address a couple of things you mentioned...
- He has no neighbors (lives in the upstairs of his business, adjoining businesses are closed at night)
- He's not really the "crank it to 11" type. 🙂 I think "moderate volume" is a great description of how he would be listening. However, the space is pretty large. I'm hoping for him to send me some photos I can share with you guys, for perspective.
- The goal is both better sound from current TV now, with possibility of expanding to a full home theater (5.1 probably) in the future. He will definitely be doing a lot of music listening from his phone or iPad via bluetooth, unless I can find a simple way to provide him a hub to plug into - any thoughts on that?
- I love the lower cost of Polk sub, but would the larger (12") driver and higher wattage of the BIC be generally a better thing for filling the space, or not necessarily?
- Speaking of driver size, you make a good point about the 3" driver in the towers. As much as I love the TABAQ design (Looking hard at the FrugelHorn Mk3 also), is there a version of either of those cabinets to your knowledge that uses a larger driver?
I intend to search both threads, but man those are some long reads! lol
Thanks again for all your advice, this is helping refine the project tremendously!
No problem – keep asking questions. It can be overwhelming to try and find solutions since there are just too many options and opinions.
I was joking about the neighbors, but in this case it is an advantage not to have any. You keep emphasizing that your buddy’s place is pretty large and concerned about the Polks or TABAQs filling the space. Well, it’s difficult for me to judge from here, but a large space can be filled easily with sound (even with smallish speakers) – it all depends on how much stuff (carpets, curtains, furniture, paintings, bookshelves) is in the room. It also depends how far from the speakers you would normally sit listening.
Frugal-phile DIY Audio Community Site
Another nice floorstander option (also MLTL design) is this one:
Mark Audio Alpair 10.3/A10p MLTL
I was joking about the neighbors, but in this case it is an advantage not to have any. You keep emphasizing that your buddy’s place is pretty large and concerned about the Polks or TABAQs filling the space. Well, it’s difficult for me to judge from here, but a large space can be filled easily with sound (even with smallish speakers) – it all depends on how much stuff (carpets, curtains, furniture, paintings, bookshelves) is in the room. It also depends how far from the speakers you would normally sit listening.
I would still suggest to get started with a TPA3116 2.1 amp with Bluetooth. They are really cheap and sound amazing for what you pay for.
Yes, there are. The Frugal Horns are backloaded horn designs and as you saw there are three different sizes. The TABAQ is a MLTL design and there are similar designs for larger drivers of which the Pensil series are well known and loved around here. Dave from Planet10 can help you better here. You can find all the plans on the Frugal-phile site:
Frugal-phile DIY Audio Community Site
Another nice floorstander option (also MLTL design) is this one:
Mark Audio Alpair 10.3/A10p MLTL
That's what I love about this community - questions are encouraged. It's amazing how many "discussion forums" stifle exactly that. 🙂
I was definitely planning to get that amp you suggested early on. It looks like just what he needs for now, and it's less than $100, which fits the budget nicely.
I've been looking a lot at the FH and TABAQ threads/pages in the last couple days, and I gotta say I'm more confused than when I started! It seems that there are so many driver/enclosure combinations, and of course "best" is highly subjective in some ways, and greatly dependent on the use case, and environment.
It just seems that with some simple constraints (room size, description, music preference, etc...) that I'd expect it to be fairly easy for those with deep experience to say...driver ____ in enclosure ____ would serve you best in this scenario.
Maybe it's not that easy?
I'll check into the Pencil series, although I think the Alpair 10s might be pushing the budget just a little bit, I'm waiting to hear back on that from my buddy.
I was definitely planning to get that amp you suggested early on. It looks like just what he needs for now, and it's less than $100, which fits the budget nicely.
I've been looking a lot at the FH and TABAQ threads/pages in the last couple days, and I gotta say I'm more confused than when I started! It seems that there are so many driver/enclosure combinations, and of course "best" is highly subjective in some ways, and greatly dependent on the use case, and environment.
It just seems that with some simple constraints (room size, description, music preference, etc...) that I'd expect it to be fairly easy for those with deep experience to say...driver ____ in enclosure ____ would serve you best in this scenario.
Maybe it's not that easy?
I'll check into the Pencil series, although I think the Alpair 10s might be pushing the budget just a little bit, I'm waiting to hear back on that from my buddy.
Ok, I'm narrowing things down a bit I think, maybe.
I got some info back from my buddy, which I believe will be helpful.
The room is approx. 24' wide x 36' deep, with 10' ceilings. The walls are brick and painted plaster. The rear "wall" of the space (opposite the TV), is open to the kitchen area, so it's actually longer than 36', but the listening area will be mostly confined to the living room.
He's given me a budget of $500-700 for everything, including the amp (~$100), sub ($150) and any misc stuff like leads, banana plugs, etc...
Speaking of the sub, if I get that Polk sub, how exactly does it connect to the little amp? Does it just ignore the power coming from the amp somehow and use it's own internal amp? I'm used to working with HT receivers that have dedicated LFE outputs, so this part is a little confusing to me.
Anyway, after deducting the price of the amp and sub, it looks like I have about $300-400 to work with for the speakers.
I'm leaning towards either the Frugel Horn Mk3, with maybe MA Alpair 7.3MS drivers, or the Pencil 10.2 with the MA Alpair 10M gen3 drivers.
What worries me a little is whether the larger Alpair 10 driver will have any trouble handling the higher frequencies.
I know that question is answered by the graphs and specs on the Madisound site, but I'm not experienced enough to read them yet. 🙂
I do really like the simplicity of the Pencil build over the FH3, but I like the fancy look of the FH3 better, and I want him to be happy with the result. I also like the larger driver because of the size of the room.
Also, he told me that we have of the option of putting the speakers in the corners of the room. Does that placement change the recommendation any?
So many variables...
I got some info back from my buddy, which I believe will be helpful.
The room is approx. 24' wide x 36' deep, with 10' ceilings. The walls are brick and painted plaster. The rear "wall" of the space (opposite the TV), is open to the kitchen area, so it's actually longer than 36', but the listening area will be mostly confined to the living room.
He's given me a budget of $500-700 for everything, including the amp (~$100), sub ($150) and any misc stuff like leads, banana plugs, etc...
Speaking of the sub, if I get that Polk sub, how exactly does it connect to the little amp? Does it just ignore the power coming from the amp somehow and use it's own internal amp? I'm used to working with HT receivers that have dedicated LFE outputs, so this part is a little confusing to me.
Anyway, after deducting the price of the amp and sub, it looks like I have about $300-400 to work with for the speakers.
I'm leaning towards either the Frugel Horn Mk3, with maybe MA Alpair 7.3MS drivers, or the Pencil 10.2 with the MA Alpair 10M gen3 drivers.
What worries me a little is whether the larger Alpair 10 driver will have any trouble handling the higher frequencies.
I know that question is answered by the graphs and specs on the Madisound site, but I'm not experienced enough to read them yet. 🙂
I do really like the simplicity of the Pencil build over the FH3, but I like the fancy look of the FH3 better, and I want him to be happy with the result. I also like the larger driver because of the size of the room.
Also, he told me that we have of the option of putting the speakers in the corners of the room. Does that placement change the recommendation any?
So many variables...
So I ran across this little beastie. I recall reading good things about them, and notice that it has a dedicated Sub output. Would this be a better option for an amp?
Ok, I was leading you down the wrong path – I am so sorry for that. The Polk (and BIC) subwoofers are active (have their own built-in amp) subs and will NOT work with the cheap 2.1 amps I recommended. Those amps have a powered (100W) channel intended for a passive sub. The Polk and BIC are active subs that require a line level signal input, not an amplified signal. Therefore, this SMSL SA300 looks like the ideal solution. Great find. This amp’s dedicated subwoofer output is a line level output, specifically for powered subs like the Polk and BIC. The other great name in powered subs is REL.
If you can afford it, the Alpair 10M drivers in either the FHXL or Pensils will sound fantastic and should work very well in that large room. By adding a sub there should not be much difference between the FHXL and Pensils. Nothing wrong with the Alpair 10M’s high frequency handling according to me. I built a pair of FHXLs with the Alpair 10M drivers. Testing them (in my house) with my ACA amp it was the best sounding speakers I have heard to date. I actually loved the balance between midrange and treble of these drivers – no harshness, but amazing clarity and detail.
Roger that, thanks!
I saw that the Polk sub had speaker level inputs with pass-thrus, but I figured that if I could get an amp that had a true sub output, that would surely be better.
As much as I love the look of the FH series, I don't think he has the depth space for the FHXLs, and I'm a little bit daunted by the prospects of building those in my shop, since I don't have any way of cutting larger panels accurately.
I'm really leaning towards the Pencil 10.2 with the Alpair 10Ms. Those, along with the Polk sub will be a solid combo I think, after hearing your insights.
What material did you use for your cabinets?
I don't have a source for high quality multi-ply around here, so I'm stuck with either Lowes (Like a Home Depot) plywood, or MDF.
I was reading up on the foamcore speaker thread, and was wondering about the possibility of maybe using a thicker foam, and veneering it with nice wood...how nuts would that be? 😉
I saw that the Polk sub had speaker level inputs with pass-thrus, but I figured that if I could get an amp that had a true sub output, that would surely be better.
As much as I love the look of the FH series, I don't think he has the depth space for the FHXLs, and I'm a little bit daunted by the prospects of building those in my shop, since I don't have any way of cutting larger panels accurately.
I'm really leaning towards the Pencil 10.2 with the Alpair 10Ms. Those, along with the Polk sub will be a solid combo I think, after hearing your insights.
What material did you use for your cabinets?
I don't have a source for high quality multi-ply around here, so I'm stuck with either Lowes (Like a Home Depot) plywood, or MDF.
I was reading up on the foamcore speaker thread, and was wondering about the possibility of maybe using a thicker foam, and veneering it with nice wood...how nuts would that be? 😉
Make sure to use the Pensil 10.3 plans with the Alpair 10M Gen 3 drivers. The Pensil 10.2 plans are for older drivers. If you are looking at a smaller footprint then use the Jim Griffin design.
The general wood recommendation is to use quality Birch plywood. If you cannot source it, MDF will work fine. Here is a happy MDF speaker owner:
Mark Audio Alpair 10.3/A10p MLTL
See his painted speakers in post 160.
That's a good point! Where would I find the newer design? I've downloaded the "Pensil series" PDF, but it only seems to include the 10.2 plans.
I recall reading that thread you mentioned below before. Is that basically the same as a Pensil? It looks quite different...
Is birch better than some other hardwoods?
For example, I found this available locally.
It's 9-ply, vs 7-ply in the birch that I can get locally.
I may have to drop back to MDF anyway, since I've added up the materials, and I'm up against my budget, not counting any small parts, or any time on my part. I was hoping to give it a nice Cherry or Walnut Veneer, but I don't think that's going to be an option with the budget I have.
Elmjo,
Here you go with the link for the Pensil 10.3:
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/Pensil103-plan-300114.pdf
Pensil 11 for the Alpair 11MS/Pluvia 11:
https://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/PensilA11-P11.pdf
Looks like both the 11MS and 10.3 are on sale at Madisound, bringing all 3 drivers within the same price range.
Here you go with the link for the Pensil 10.3:
http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/Pensil103-plan-300114.pdf
Pensil 11 for the Alpair 11MS/Pluvia 11:
https://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/pensils/PensilA11-P11.pdf
Looks like both the 11MS and 10.3 are on sale at Madisound, bringing all 3 drivers within the same price range.
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Thanks! Scott just pointed me to the 10.3 plans as well.
So between the Alpair 10 and 11, is there any reason not to get the larger 11s?
As you say , they are the same price at the moment.
The specs and graphs look fairly different, but I'm not skilled enough to interpret them for real-world performance.
So between the Alpair 10 and 11, is there any reason not to get the larger 11s?
As you say , they are the same price at the moment.
The specs and graphs look fairly different, but I'm not skilled enough to interpret them for real-world performance.
Elmojo,
I have heard the Alpair 10.3, but no experience with the Alpair 11MS.
The Alpair 11MS is a newer driver with a mono suspension (hence the MS suffix). The cone geometry is a bit different (Negative Camber cone) - the dispersion might be superior vs the older driver but I do not have any measurements for that. One thing immediately comes to mind is that mounting should be easier with the new frame. With the Alpair 10.3 you would have to make a 10mm rebate, with the new Alpair 11MS you should be able to mount flush on the baffle, as the new frame is much thinner and is beveled.
I have heard the Alpair 10.3, but no experience with the Alpair 11MS.
The Alpair 11MS is a newer driver with a mono suspension (hence the MS suffix). The cone geometry is a bit different (Negative Camber cone) - the dispersion might be superior vs the older driver but I do not have any measurements for that. One thing immediately comes to mind is that mounting should be easier with the new frame. With the Alpair 10.3 you would have to make a 10mm rebate, with the new Alpair 11MS you should be able to mount flush on the baffle, as the new frame is much thinner and is beveled.
Found a few reviews for the Alpair 11MS on Stefan's (kjfaudio.com UK Mark Audio distributor) site:
Alpair 11 MS full range speaker driver | KJF Audio
Alpair 11 MS full range speaker driver | KJF Audio