These look great. Silly question but have you checked that they're wired in phase correctly? I've never heard these speakers but surprised to hear they're lacking in bass
Thanks for the comments Jim!
The plan is to place these near the rear walls of a fairly large room. The wall behind them will be exposed brick. How close is "close enough" to not need the BSC?
From reading through the thread for your MLTL design, it seemed like putting the port in the bottom like this would place the opening in the same spot as your design, and have the same output, did I misunderstand that? I hope not, since there's now no option to move or change the port in any way. The cabinets are sealed, and the ports are fully glued in place.
Oh well, I'm planning to add a sub to the system to fill in the missing low end. If it ends up not being needed due to the room effect, then it can always some live with me. 😉
The plan is to place these near the rear walls of a fairly large room. The wall behind them will be exposed brick. How close is "close enough" to not need the BSC?
From reading through the thread for your MLTL design, it seemed like putting the port in the bottom like this would place the opening in the same spot as your design, and have the same output, did I misunderstand that? I hope not, since there's now no option to move or change the port in any way. The cabinets are sealed, and the ports are fully glued in place.
Oh well, I'm planning to add a sub to the system to fill in the missing low end. If it ends up not being needed due to the room effect, then it can always some live with me. 😉
I'm not 100% sure what you mean, but the positive and negative terminals of the drivers are connected to the matching polarities on the terminal cups. Is that what you mean, or something else?
The solid oak looks beautiful!
I also suspect that there is something wrong here. Photos of the bottom and the port might show something. Something like
- reversed phase on one of the drivers like FRFT suggested,
- air leaks around the drivers or any of the joins,
- too much stuffing?
These drivers also need some break in time to sound their best.
Could be, I can check.
-I could pull the drivers and make sure they're not connected backwards, but I'm fairly sure they're not. It's odd that the colors are blue and red instead of black and red, but I kept the red constant, so it should be right.
- The drivers are sealed with the rubber gaskets that came with them. Is that sufficient or do I need to do something more? The cabinet itself is fully glued, and has nails in key places. I'm not sure how I would check for leaks.
- There probably was too much stuffing at one point, because I misunderstood Jim's instructions. However, I've taken out quite a bit, and weighed the removed amount to get it down to the suggested mass. Besides, I tested these with zero fill before finalizing, and don't really hear any difference either way, stuffing or no.
- The drivers were broken in on my bench for about 60-70hrs before installation.
-I could pull the drivers and make sure they're not connected backwards, but I'm fairly sure they're not. It's odd that the colors are blue and red instead of black and red, but I kept the red constant, so it should be right.
- The drivers are sealed with the rubber gaskets that came with them. Is that sufficient or do I need to do something more? The cabinet itself is fully glued, and has nails in key places. I'm not sure how I would check for leaks.
- There probably was too much stuffing at one point, because I misunderstood Jim's instructions. However, I've taken out quite a bit, and weighed the removed amount to get it down to the suggested mass. Besides, I tested these with zero fill before finalizing, and don't really hear any difference either way, stuffing or no.
- The drivers were broken in on my bench for about 60-70hrs before installation.
Looks like you covered all the bases.
- Yes, you can pull the drivers to double check. I guess the easiest check is just to swap the cables on one of the speakers. Then they will be either out of phase or in phase (+ or -), but you should hear a difference immediately. If they sound better then there is a polarity swap somewhere between the amp outputs and one of the drivers.
- The rubber gaskets are sufficient, provided they seal properly and there are no obvious gaps in the wood rebate surface.
- Taking out some stuffing should increase the bass, but not radically.
I find it strange that they have very little bass. MLTL enclosures like this one should give good bass.
Sorry, but I feel guilty and very disappointed in your results, as I was the one that encouraged you to build these speakers – convinced that they will sound great and even beyond your expectations. I have learnt a lesson – don’t recommend something you have not built or heard yourself. I also still feel that there is something wrong here and if so, hope you find the cause and that it can be fixed.
- Yes, you can pull the drivers to double check. I guess the easiest check is just to swap the cables on one of the speakers. Then they will be either out of phase or in phase (+ or -), but you should hear a difference immediately. If they sound better then there is a polarity swap somewhere between the amp outputs and one of the drivers.
- The rubber gaskets are sufficient, provided they seal properly and there are no obvious gaps in the wood rebate surface.
- Taking out some stuffing should increase the bass, but not radically.
I find it strange that they have very little bass. MLTL enclosures like this one should give good bass.
Sorry, but I feel guilty and very disappointed in your results, as I was the one that encouraged you to build these speakers – convinced that they will sound great and even beyond your expectations. I have learnt a lesson – don’t recommend something you have not built or heard yourself. I also still feel that there is something wrong here and if so, hope you find the cause and that it can be fixed.
No! Please don't feel responsible at all! It's not your fault at all.
I have confidence that Jim's design is good as well. I'm sure I've built or wired something wrong.
I'll try out some of the things you and he have mentioned and see if that helps.
If not, they still sound good, just not as powerful as I expected, based on my experience with the smaller Alpair 5's.
I'm not super concerned about the bass output. I was planning to incorporate a sub into the system anyway, since his room is so large, and all the surfaces are hard and rather reflective.
My concern is with what sounds like fuzziness or distortion. That I'd like to get sorted out before I take them over to his place for tuning.
I wish I could get a sample of what I'm talking about, so you guys could evaluate it, but I have no way of doing that that I'm aware of.
It is certainly not the drivers unless they receive a distorted signal. Only things I can think off
- perhaps some stuffing touching the driver cones, or
- that the internal wiring could be rattling against the enclosure sides maybe
I thought of that (distorted input), but it sounds the same using 2 different amps...?
Possible there could be some stuffing creeping into the basket I guess. I formed it into a cavity for the driver, but maybe not enough? I can check when I pull the driver to check the polarity.
Don't think it's the wiring. The upper part of the wire is pretty well buried in the stuffing, so it can't move, and the fuzzy sound seems pretty clearly to be coming from the driver cone itself. It gets much worse if I touch the cone during playback, restricting the movement. That's to be expected I guess, but makes me wonder what's causing it when I'm not touching it?
Possible there could be some stuffing creeping into the basket I guess. I formed it into a cavity for the driver, but maybe not enough? I can check when I pull the driver to check the polarity.
Don't think it's the wiring. The upper part of the wire is pretty well buried in the stuffing, so it can't move, and the fuzzy sound seems pretty clearly to be coming from the driver cone itself. It gets much worse if I touch the cone during playback, restricting the movement. That's to be expected I guess, but makes me wonder what's causing it when I'm not touching it?
So before I started tearing apart these beautiful speakers, I decided to investigate the input side. I turned down the source (my phone) and turned up the amp (Pioneer AVR), and it seems cleaner now. The bass is a little better as well. I think I might get these in their new home, and see how they sound before digging any further. Since everyone is saying how much the room affects the sound, I probably shouldn't monkey with it too much until I hear how they sound in their final environment. The sub is on the way as well, and once the AVR is connected to a TV, I'll be able to to the tuning and speaker sizing and such. Hopefully that's all it will take to make these sound awesome. 🙂
Elmojo,
One suggestion (down the line of what you are doing) is that you could loosen the drivers (you don't have to disconnect them) so that you could remove some of stuffing around/near the drivers. The idea is to make certain that the stuffing and diaphragms are not in contact.
Bottom line though is that if the final installation is in a very large room then a subwoofer should mitigate any concern about missing bass.
One suggestion (down the line of what you are doing) is that you could loosen the drivers (you don't have to disconnect them) so that you could remove some of stuffing around/near the drivers. The idea is to make certain that the stuffing and diaphragms are not in contact.
Bottom line though is that if the final installation is in a very large room then a subwoofer should mitigate any concern about missing bass.