caps
Claudeg, I appreciate your wisdom here. And I am not trying to dispute but to learn. Per your comment,
Papa did say the followings in the manual.
Papa also mentioned the followings in the post #2615
A long time ago, Michael Percy introduced me to Elna and I loved them especially in the PSU application. But I am not familiar with the new Elna production.
I too am concerned about this as my HF are horns. May be I will look for PIOs.
Claudeg, I appreciate your wisdom here. And I am not trying to dispute but to learn. Per your comment,
Papa did say the followings in the manual.
I am thinking about 1uf russian pio for the input at the moment or straight up 10uf polyprop.
Papa also mentioned the followings in the post #2615
A long time ago, Michael Percy introduced me to Elna and I loved them especially in the PSU application. But I am not familiar with the new Elna production.
I too am concerned about this as my HF are horns. May be I will look for PIOs.
@ ClaudeG
What power amplifier you use with B1Korg pre ?
It's a tube amp or Papa Diy amp or something else..?
Best regards
What power amplifier you use with B1Korg pre ?
It's a tube amp or Papa Diy amp or something else..?
Best regards
Quote:
it pushes a little hard on my eardrum with the Upper Frequencies, and is a detractor over time.
For me the effect of the High Frequency on the ears are limited to the use of the Ken Rad VT 231, this situation has been resolved with the use of different 6SN7's being used.
The 6SN7's in use at present are very good, and if I were not aware of the VT231 Bass Quality in my set up, they would be totally acceptable.
The Valves in use at present are not able to deliver the noticeable and improved performance of the VT231, with the desired Bass that is offered, but with the KB1 included, each Valve Choice is exposed for its merits, and I have a Pair in use that are very much to my liking, and as a result,
the KB1 is a 'must have' in my system.
The loaned KB1 in use is a New Build with approx 40 hours of usage.
The perception of the presentation may change as the Build has time to settle in.
I'm sure there is another thread that could cover the perceptions of the built devices, after different periods of usage.
I would not let the concern over a High Frequency become deterrent from taking on a KB1 Build, and when built, I would recommend a decent period of usage before any modifications to the Cap's in use is put on a 'to do' list.
Hence, why the Builder of my Loaned Model, has made it available as a long term loan, so I can experience it over time.
it pushes a little hard on my eardrum with the Upper Frequencies, and is a detractor over time.
For me the effect of the High Frequency on the ears are limited to the use of the Ken Rad VT 231, this situation has been resolved with the use of different 6SN7's being used.
The 6SN7's in use at present are very good, and if I were not aware of the VT231 Bass Quality in my set up, they would be totally acceptable.
The Valves in use at present are not able to deliver the noticeable and improved performance of the VT231, with the desired Bass that is offered, but with the KB1 included, each Valve Choice is exposed for its merits, and I have a Pair in use that are very much to my liking, and as a result,
the KB1 is a 'must have' in my system.
The loaned KB1 in use is a New Build with approx 40 hours of usage.
The perception of the presentation may change as the Build has time to settle in.
I'm sure there is another thread that could cover the perceptions of the built devices, after different periods of usage.
I would not let the concern over a High Frequency become deterrent from taking on a KB1 Build, and when built, I would recommend a decent period of usage before any modifications to the Cap's in use is put on a 'to do' list.
Hence, why the Builder of my Loaned Model, has made it available as a long term loan, so I can experience it over time.
Thanks all for your kind comments.
Of course PPP caps are indeed non competitive when it comes to VFM or footprint... but then we speak of less than 30$ in total (when you just go for the values that are really required by the B1K) and a non industrial prototype built, so each to decide...
And YES, there is a burn-in period to consider. Several 10th of hours, difficult to tell. I did indeed listen to the B1K before thinking playing with it and grabing the soldering iron proved difficult as I didn't want to have it stop playing music LOL! As for the PPP caps, I burned them in seperately before sodering them on the B1K board, to allow a quicker comparison. I also like to write down first impressions... and to come back to them after a while... all time consuming but is a hobby and just me and prefer to post matured bits.
My amps are currently either my old and beloved DIY amp around one 2SA1302 / 2SC3281 transistor pairing per channel for loudpeakers, or a simple set up using OPA1656s (yes, op amps, who would have thought) for my (rarely used) high impedance headphones... so "solid" in either case.
FSSA-2 is my next power amp, parts on their way, so solid also. A more powerfull Pass F4, solid aswell, would also have been a contender, but it sadly lacked gain (per definition...) and would have required me to change preamps and possibility to drive directly etc. In either case I am quite confident both are trully excellent amps but I shall find out really once built 🙂 Loudspeakers are my beloved Infinity Renaissance 90 magnetostats hybrids. Love them... not that difficult to drive but not for faint amps either, hence limited choice.
Always fascinated by tubes, but never had tubes nor the need for them until recently, both with LPs and CDs got away "tweaking the sound to my liking without", nor did I like caps in the signal path (only 1 cap per channel for decades and only passive pre amps)... but that was before Papa taught me differently and the arrival of the B1 Korg!
"Only fools don't change mind" as they say in your contry... thanks Papa!
Claude
Of course PPP caps are indeed non competitive when it comes to VFM or footprint... but then we speak of less than 30$ in total (when you just go for the values that are really required by the B1K) and a non industrial prototype built, so each to decide...
And YES, there is a burn-in period to consider. Several 10th of hours, difficult to tell. I did indeed listen to the B1K before thinking playing with it and grabing the soldering iron proved difficult as I didn't want to have it stop playing music LOL! As for the PPP caps, I burned them in seperately before sodering them on the B1K board, to allow a quicker comparison. I also like to write down first impressions... and to come back to them after a while... all time consuming but is a hobby and just me and prefer to post matured bits.
My amps are currently either my old and beloved DIY amp around one 2SA1302 / 2SC3281 transistor pairing per channel for loudpeakers, or a simple set up using OPA1656s (yes, op amps, who would have thought) for my (rarely used) high impedance headphones... so "solid" in either case.
FSSA-2 is my next power amp, parts on their way, so solid also. A more powerfull Pass F4, solid aswell, would also have been a contender, but it sadly lacked gain (per definition...) and would have required me to change preamps and possibility to drive directly etc. In either case I am quite confident both are trully excellent amps but I shall find out really once built 🙂 Loudspeakers are my beloved Infinity Renaissance 90 magnetostats hybrids. Love them... not that difficult to drive but not for faint amps either, hence limited choice.
Always fascinated by tubes, but never had tubes nor the need for them until recently, both with LPs and CDs got away "tweaking the sound to my liking without", nor did I like caps in the signal path (only 1 cap per channel for decades and only passive pre amps)... but that was before Papa taught me differently and the arrival of the B1 Korg!
"Only fools don't change mind" as they say in your contry... thanks Papa!
Claude
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@ Yaho
After ~ 2 months of slow step by step experiments with large and small MKP capacitors and 10 of electrolytes my conclusions are:
6 x 10uF Elna Silmic II together with parallel 2uF ~ 3uF MKP or MKC bypass cap = marvelous sound stage and great sound quality.
6 x 10uF MKP only (without electrolytes ) can be very good, but not always with every source or power amp, speakers..
Small value caps on the input and in the middle: surprisely not my choice.
Your mileage can vary..🙂
After ~ 2 months of slow step by step experiments with large and small MKP capacitors and 10 of electrolytes my conclusions are:
6 x 10uF Elna Silmic II together with parallel 2uF ~ 3uF MKP or MKC bypass cap = marvelous sound stage and great sound quality.
6 x 10uF MKP only (without electrolytes ) can be very good, but not always with every source or power amp, speakers..
Small value caps on the input and in the middle: surprisely not my choice.
Your mileage can vary..🙂
Haha, my power amp is solid state as well, but I was thinking Your is a tube's one 😀
Most important You like it
Love your conclusions. I made provisions to play around with different Cap configuration. I will definitely keep your recommendation in mind. Grateful!
I have a home made tube pp amp based on 6bg6 tubes. So, I will play that with B1 and see what happens. I just finished building (more like putting together) F6 which is my first ss diy amp ever. So, I will match that with B1 and see what happens as well.
Thanks
ClaudeG
The only way to do it is . Original bom do one ,
And your own flavour do one . Burn both in at least few months . And listen . The most difficult part about getting it right is the bass and the density of texture and weight , bloom of vocal..only through this exercise we get to know what really works .
. Papa already handed this to us on a silver platter , he have the experience what works, ..improving on original is not trival ...
anything expensive and cheap name it ..we probably bought it ,burned it in at least 1500hours and know how it sounds ..it's brutal where my community is . Cause some of them is from recording industry and distributors..golden ear standard. Hardly any diyer survived the review ...including themself lololol .
It's supposed to be fun ..do it right and as good as factory build sound should be the aim ..do another topology ..it's more fun .. cheaper less fustrating..and foolproof.
Silmic 2 ..is better choice...the new one from Thailand is brighter and lack of texture
I hope someone get the point and enjoy their projects more .. I can imagine it's very fustrating for designers who did all the work and everyone else think they know better .
The only way to do it is . Original bom do one ,
And your own flavour do one . Burn both in at least few months . And listen . The most difficult part about getting it right is the bass and the density of texture and weight , bloom of vocal..only through this exercise we get to know what really works .
. Papa already handed this to us on a silver platter , he have the experience what works, ..improving on original is not trival ...
anything expensive and cheap name it ..we probably bought it ,burned it in at least 1500hours and know how it sounds ..it's brutal where my community is . Cause some of them is from recording industry and distributors..golden ear standard. Hardly any diyer survived the review ...including themself lololol .
It's supposed to be fun ..do it right and as good as factory build sound should be the aim ..do another topology ..it's more fun .. cheaper less fustrating..and foolproof.
Silmic 2 ..is better choice...the new one from Thailand is brighter and lack of texture
I hope someone get the point and enjoy their projects more .. I can imagine it's very fustrating for designers who did all the work and everyone else think they know better .
"I can imagine it's very frustrating for designers who did all the work and everyone else think they know better"
Not in the slightest.
Not in the slightest.
"I can imagine it's very frustrating for designers who did all the work and everyone else think they know better"
Not in the slightest.
Respect.
Very true! The reviewers here is very brutal and left many dishearted and unentertained. I often was gently bullied myself.. But still entertained as learning is fun.. Survived with a limp.
It's sad however.. Some capitalize on diyers, eg. 10000+usd dollars 300b diy parts only that sound like hmmmm...you could do Alot better with a fraction that money, buy a better speaker buy a better source. It's a slippery road..
All is not in the spirit of having fun..
To me fun is do it with good value. Good company... Good coffee
It's sad however.. Some capitalize on diyers, eg. 10000+usd dollars 300b diy parts only that sound like hmmmm...you could do Alot better with a fraction that money, buy a better speaker buy a better source. It's a slippery road..
All is not in the spirit of having fun..
To me fun is do it with good value. Good company... Good coffee
Hello Juergen,
Following our privet conversation I think it might be more people around willing to know some details about your power board, so not to double write...
Please specify the size of the board and mounting holes location.
Please clarify on the statement above, as you mentioned "default version of the power supply is adjusted to 28v", what was the reason to have 28v the B1 nutube instead of 24v?
Another question is about transformers' spec: 230va with the secondary 2x 27v connected in serial on the power supply pcb, sounds a bit confusing.
Maybe you can provide some details.
Regards, Konstantin
Hello to the forum. As I finished my Nutube on the weekend (with your help by the way) I now want to thank you. Thank you so much mr. Nelson Pass and DIYForum. As a person who is interested in everything regarding Hi-Fi and generally interested in any kind of handwork I had so much fun building it. It was my first time soldering, my first time building anything electric and the result is just...stunning!
Until now my setup consisted of an Audionet Sam G2 integrated Amplifier driving conventional speakers (Q-Acoustics Concept 500) but in the long term I want to go the route of active speakers, so I was in search of a Line Stage and was looking for a tubed one. A friend recommended I should have a look at the Nutube. I did, calculated the cost and now I‘m there. In the moment the Nutube feeds a self build (Lent by this friend) Class D Amplifier with Icepower 125asx2 module and from the first notes I suspected that the 4.5k Euro Sam won’t get back on to my rack.
The sound of the Nutube is warm, detailed, and the 3D illusion is just stunning. I’m using it with 10V and inverted speakers. Maybe the Sam has a little more control over very complex music but that maybe also a thing of the power amplifier. But everything else is just great with the Nutube. Stage and 3D Illusion is better, warmth better, detail on a par, Bass is Great, you can hear through the recordings and get every detail of space. Just great. I‘m very curious to hear it with active speakers for the first time.
So...thanks again for your efforts Mr Pass and DIY Forum, it’s much appreciated!
Sebastian
Until now my setup consisted of an Audionet Sam G2 integrated Amplifier driving conventional speakers (Q-Acoustics Concept 500) but in the long term I want to go the route of active speakers, so I was in search of a Line Stage and was looking for a tubed one. A friend recommended I should have a look at the Nutube. I did, calculated the cost and now I‘m there. In the moment the Nutube feeds a self build (Lent by this friend) Class D Amplifier with Icepower 125asx2 module and from the first notes I suspected that the 4.5k Euro Sam won’t get back on to my rack.
The sound of the Nutube is warm, detailed, and the 3D illusion is just stunning. I’m using it with 10V and inverted speakers. Maybe the Sam has a little more control over very complex music but that maybe also a thing of the power amplifier. But everything else is just great with the Nutube. Stage and 3D Illusion is better, warmth better, detail on a par, Bass is Great, you can hear through the recordings and get every detail of space. Just great. I‘m very curious to hear it with active speakers for the first time.
So...thanks again for your efforts Mr Pass and DIY Forum, it’s much appreciated!
Sebastian
Attachments
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I used silver litz wire bought at THEL Audio here in Germany, same as the poti. It’s a TKD-CP2500. The Capacitors are ClarityCap ESA in 0,47uf, 1uf and 10uf. All in, the cost was below 400 Euro with all parts...unbeatable
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Congratulations on your first DIY! Very nice.
You have the same mistakes that I have made some 20yrs in my DIY beginnings. Signal wires are way too thick! I have learned it the hard way, it gave me oscillations... In small signals, thicker is not better! I would never go over 20AWG solid wire. Also if you are satisfied and don't plan to re-use those caps cut those leads short as possible.