When I started this thread, I did not imagine that it would have gone into passionate debates , bringing in useful technical information. My intention then was have advice before purchasing a pair of tweeters that would good sounding at a moderate price.. in the mean time I have built a nomex 164 which uses a scanspeak D2603 91300 (euros 65 per piece), which IMHO does its job, but personally can't find a huge sonic difference as compared on some brandless chinese tweeters found on the local market in Mauritius ( a pair being sold around USD 10 !!!). So I still looking for some budget tweeters that would outperform expensive ones). Too often HIFI diyers would divert further in technical domain, instead of sonic or hearing domain though I know the latter is a subjective one.
SEAS Prestige 22TAF/G (H1283) Alum/Magn. Alloy 22 mm Dome Tweeter
Here are some reviews from the Madisound site in the USA.
This SEAS Prestige 22TAF/G (H1283) is "PROBABLY" the best sounding inexpensive tweeter that is available almost every place.
http://www.madisound.com/loudspeaker_specifications/h1283_22taf_g_datasheet.pdf
There are others of course but this one is loved by almost everyone that has ever heard it.
Here are some reviews from the Madisound site in the USA.
This SEAS Prestige 22TAF/G (H1283) is "PROBABLY" the best sounding inexpensive tweeter that is available almost every place.
http://www.madisound.com/loudspeaker_specifications/h1283_22taf_g_datasheet.pdf
There are others of course but this one is loved by almost everyone that has ever heard it.
Peerless by Tymphany XT25BG60-04 1" Dual Ring Radiator Tweeter
This is another very popular tweeter with very good sound and performance for very little money
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1012--tymphany-xt25bg60-04-spec-sheet.pdf
This is another very popular tweeter with very good sound and performance for very little money
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1012--tymphany-xt25bg60-04-spec-sheet.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/264-1390--tymphany-bc25sc08-04-spec-sheet.pdf
just over $20 US; there are many small and bigger horn versions similar to this...Vifa/Peerless/Tymphany...
This is a small horn with a silk dome; good output for something so small. The highest octave rolls off way before 20 KHz though. I really like the sound of these but since I'm in my mid 60's; I can't hear much above 10 KHz anyway; beyond 15 KHz...forget it; might as well have in ear plugs in...ha ha ha...
The smaller, less expensive Morel tweeters also sound quite good for the money; I agree there...
just over $20 US; there are many small and bigger horn versions similar to this...Vifa/Peerless/Tymphany...
This is a small horn with a silk dome; good output for something so small. The highest octave rolls off way before 20 KHz though. I really like the sound of these but since I'm in my mid 60's; I can't hear much above 10 KHz anyway; beyond 15 KHz...forget it; might as well have in ear plugs in...ha ha ha...
The smaller, less expensive Morel tweeters also sound quite good for the money; I agree there...
Define what is low cost: under 10$, 20$, 40-50$?
And there is a huge difference between 2 and 3KHz crossover point.
In the 20$ range or lower I can suggest Vifa DX25 for a 2KHz crossover, or the Vifa BC25TG15 or Dayton ND28F for a higher crossover point, though for the latter I found some consistency problems.
The problem is that FR isn't (shouldn't be) the only method for choosing a driver. Harmonic and intermodulation distortion play a bigger role in defining the quality of a driver.
Ralf
And there is a huge difference between 2 and 3KHz crossover point.
In the 20$ range or lower I can suggest Vifa DX25 for a 2KHz crossover, or the Vifa BC25TG15 or Dayton ND28F for a higher crossover point, though for the latter I found some consistency problems.
The problem is that FR isn't (shouldn't be) the only method for choosing a driver. Harmonic and intermodulation distortion play a bigger role in defining the quality of a driver.
Ralf
In fact I intend to realize in a near future 2 projects: Both 2 ways bass reflex
1st project: Peerless 830875 and ?? Tweeter
2nd project: audax aerogel HM210Z0 and ?? Tweeter
Both projects having xover in 2k2 Hz region
So thank u for proposing good sounding and generally appraised tweeters costing up to 40$, preferably lower if they exist.
Alain
1st project: Peerless 830875 and ?? Tweeter
2nd project: audax aerogel HM210Z0 and ?? Tweeter
Both projects having xover in 2k2 Hz region
So thank u for proposing good sounding and generally appraised tweeters costing up to 40$, preferably lower if they exist.
Alain
In order to avoid mismatched dispersion characteristics between the bass and the tweeter, you should aim for a 2KHz or slightly more crossover for a 6.5” driver, and under 2KHz for a 8” driver. So for the Peerless project you can go with the Vifa DX25 I suggested, but for the Audax project you need a tweeter in another league, a Seas 27TB or 27TD, or the Scan-Speak 9130 you already own. Or you need to use a waveguide. For the Vifa you can pretty easily adapt the Monacor WG300 waveguide. Both not easy projects, but easier than the Tarkus clone...
Ralf
Ralf
Hi,
Do you think it's feasible to use the Audax without low pass filter and XO at 2.5K with the good SS 9130 ? Or 30° off axis matching not enough for a XO ?
I don't have direct experience with the Audax woofer, so what follows is only speculation on my part. The FR posted is heavily smoothed, so I can't be sure how offensive is the +2KHz breakup, but besides that the rolloff will require a LP filter, if you don't use any you'll end up with a bump (at least). I'm not even sure that a 2-way is doable (at least with a successful outcome for the price involved), but if it is it will require a sub 2KHz crossover point, and this require a robust tweeter, better with a waveguide.
See here for a test of the Vifa DX25 on the Monacor waveguide: Test Peerless DX25TG09-04 (XD-270 F/4) am Waveguide
See here for a way to adapt the tweeter to the waveguide: Waveguide for a Vifa tweeter
Ralf
See here for a test of the Vifa DX25 on the Monacor waveguide: Test Peerless DX25TG09-04 (XD-270 F/4) am Waveguide
See here for a way to adapt the tweeter to the waveguide: Waveguide for a Vifa tweeter
Ralf
The problem is consistency. You can't get consistency (whether good or bad) on the cheap. It requires tighter manufacturing tolerances, shorter batch runs, more sampling and basically more quality control = more cost.
So a single budget tweeter may outperform one twice the price.... but will 10,000 of them be within 5% of eachother?
So a single budget tweeter may outperform one twice the price.... but will 10,000 of them be within 5% of eachother?
I think if it were me I would make this SEAS 1st or 2nd choice:
SEAS Prestige 22TAF/G (H1283) Alum/Magn. Alloy 22 mm Dome Tweeter
less than $45 US
And this SB 2nd or 1st choice:
SB Acoustics SB26CDC-C000-4 Alum-Ceram Dome Tweeter
less than $60 US for the SB
That is just what I would do if I were doing a new build.
The advantages are these are both well received and have much better control than a standard metal dome in the same price range. If budget is your primary objective; keep looking for sale prices; sign up for e mail updates from all of the major suppliers. Sometimes a very high quality driver can be had for almost 50% reduction on sale or special or clearance, etc...FWIW...
SEAS Prestige 22TAF/G (H1283) Alum/Magn. Alloy 22 mm Dome Tweeter
less than $45 US
And this SB 2nd or 1st choice:
SB Acoustics SB26CDC-C000-4 Alum-Ceram Dome Tweeter
less than $60 US for the SB
That is just what I would do if I were doing a new build.
The advantages are these are both well received and have much better control than a standard metal dome in the same price range. If budget is your primary objective; keep looking for sale prices; sign up for e mail updates from all of the major suppliers. Sometimes a very high quality driver can be had for almost 50% reduction on sale or special or clearance, etc...FWIW...
A Seas al/Mgn at that price... that's nice, less expensive in US than EC 
With 6 ohms, easier to use perhaps than the 4 ohms in a passive filter. Well this one is more a 5 ohms...
From ZaphAudio : "Seas 22TAFG ($34) - Very smooth response with 3dB rise at 20Khz which is flat when 15 deg off axis. Breakup node at a very high frequency. Average Fs for a 3/4" in this class. High HD below 2kHz, best if crossed over 2.5kHz LR4 or 3kHz LR2. Another ugly hexagrid cover. Tested August 2005"
Did you hear that Seas oldspkrguy ? Let me know how you find the cdc when you finish your 3 ways please.
With 6 ohms, easier to use perhaps than the 4 ohms in a passive filter. Well this one is more a 5 ohms...
From ZaphAudio : "Seas 22TAFG ($34) - Very smooth response with 3dB rise at 20Khz which is flat when 15 deg off axis. Breakup node at a very high frequency. Average Fs for a 3/4" in this class. High HD below 2kHz, best if crossed over 2.5kHz LR4 or 3kHz LR2. Another ugly hexagrid cover. Tested August 2005"
Did you hear that Seas oldspkrguy ? Let me know how you find the cdc when you finish your 3 ways please.
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The seas 22mm tweeter is excellent by all accounts, but it can't cross as low as the SB26 series or the Peerless corundum tweeters, *if* that's important for your application. Particularly if you are considering first order filters which I believe you mentioned, it will be limiting. It really is best suited to use with a 5" or smaller driver IMO, to be able to cross high enough with respect to distortion, resonance, and especially directivity . I have not heard it, but have been listening to it's bigger brother the 27tbfc/g daily going on 15 years, and think it's quite nice, though I do prefer both the SB hard domes and the Corondum. The 22tafg may be better than the big brother though, for a start it has no ferrofluid, which some feel is a big plus.
As an aside; I wouldn't put too much stock in the reviews on PE, I have often noticed a huge disparity in the experience level of the reviewers, and the appropriateness of their use. For example; someone using the tweeter with an off-the-shelf crossover, or as a drop in for a completely different speaker with no change to the crossover, or crossing too low with a first order crossover. Such reviews are not very useful, at least to someone who plans to use it appropriately. On the other hand, there are some very well received designs using the 22taf/g - for a start, there are:
The Neutrino - A High-Output Mini-Monitor -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
CA18RLY/22TAF-G
Microbe SE
I don't know much about Troels's design, but the Neutrinos and I believe Microbe SE were toured around DIY events extensively, so if you search around for those designs, you should find no shortage of opinions on the sound of the tweeter. These designers know what they're doing too, so you should be very safe following their lead in terms of crossover topology.
As an aside; I wouldn't put too much stock in the reviews on PE, I have often noticed a huge disparity in the experience level of the reviewers, and the appropriateness of their use. For example; someone using the tweeter with an off-the-shelf crossover, or as a drop in for a completely different speaker with no change to the crossover, or crossing too low with a first order crossover. Such reviews are not very useful, at least to someone who plans to use it appropriately. On the other hand, there are some very well received designs using the 22taf/g - for a start, there are:
The Neutrino - A High-Output Mini-Monitor -
Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
CA18RLY/22TAF-G
Microbe SE
I don't know much about Troels's design, but the Neutrinos and I believe Microbe SE were toured around DIY events extensively, so if you search around for those designs, you should find no shortage of opinions on the sound of the tweeter. These designers know what they're doing too, so you should be very safe following their lead in terms of crossover topology.
I agree. These are both really fine drivers. I have experience with the SB26CDC... it performs far better than I expected a $60 driver would.
@ morbo, yes I'm going to one of the two corundum: impedance will be nearer than the 6ohms of the mid I already have.
Time to simulate with the freewares a 1st order :targett 3500/4000 hz at first look with the 3" 87/88 db/2.83 V for 6 ohms & the P. DA32TX which is 8 ohms there & circa 89/90 db/2.83V. Just to know if doable before to pull the trigger. the game is I would like to decrease a little the 1500 to 3k/4k hz of the 3" by choosing the Cut-off... perhaps something slighty assymetric cutt off with a 2nd order for the 3"...
Despite it seems waste to XO such P. corundum tweeters so high... but 1st order in mind. I should say the Seas 22TAF/G seems a more rational purchase for this project XO (and Harbeth seems to use a close OEM) and don't know if the corundum is better from 3k/4k hz than these tweeters. Well the DA32TX has the Sd size for him according ScottG advice for me to try the 1st order easilier... and it's no FF: hassle proof after few years and can easily further swap in a more ambitious project. I though a bout the Audax TW34 2" for a first order... despite the big Sd, this tweeter can manage the last octave quite well according T. Gravsen... he doesn't use 1st order though but horned and stiffer slope.
The SB26 CDC is nearer 3 ohms at 3500/4000 hz... I would like to try the passive way, so prefer nearer impedance curves. This CDC is staying in a corner for a further fight. If it sounds better that the sb26Stac that's gone now, it should be indeed a very good tweeter, and twice for the price of it .
yes I'm going to one of the two corundum: impedance will be nearer than the 6ohms of the mid I already have.Time to simulate with the freewares a 1st order :targett 3500/4000 hz at first look with the 3" 87/88 db/2.83 V for 6 ohms & the P. DA32TX which is 8 ohms there & circa 89/90 db/2.83V. Just to know if doable before to pull the trigger. the game is I would like to decrease a little the 1500 to 3k/4k hz of the 3" by choosing the Cut-off... perhaps something slighty assymetric cutt off with a 2nd order for the 3"...
Despite it seems waste to XO such P. corundum tweeters so high... but 1st order in mind. I should say the Seas 22TAF/G seems a more rational purchase for this project XO (and Harbeth seems to use a close OEM) and don't know if the corundum is better from 3k/4k hz than these tweeters. Well the DA32TX has the Sd size for him according ScottG advice for me to try the 1st order easilier... and it's no FF: hassle proof after few years and can easily further swap in a more ambitious project. I though a bout the Audax TW34 2" for a first order... despite the big Sd, this tweeter can manage the last octave quite well according T. Gravsen... he doesn't use 1st order though but horned and stiffer slope.
The SB26 CDC is nearer 3 ohms at 3500/4000 hz... I would like to try the passive way, so prefer nearer impedance curves. This CDC is staying in a corner for a further fight. If it sounds better that the sb26Stac that's gone now, it should be indeed a very good tweeter, and twice for the price of it
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Let's continue with last Alain's posting : thank you for your patience on te disgress.