I just watched one on YouTube using 5000 & 7000 grit sandpaper. The results where not all that great. Meaning not much difference.
Tsk,tsk Bill. Molasses is for putting on pancakes or making rum. Don't spread it on your records, no matter how tasty. 😛
On the suitable starter MM for mono It always seems that the traditional USA choices were the Shure M75 and Stanton . I will ask George how his 35 works on mono unless he pops on here. In UK as well as the Shure the Excel generator (made famous in the A&R x77) is popular as ESCO do a wide range of stylii for it (which may fit the M75 as well).
But recently DJ cartridges have started to become a popular choice (OK the M75 and stanton could be argued as DJ cartridges from the start) which is where I got the S120 idea from. I've also got a good collection of ortofon OM stylii for experiments at different compliances as they go from 7cu up to 25cu without changing the cartridge. Not something of use to many, but gives me an easy way to compare, even if only with bonded tips (but I can do something about that).
But I haven't managed to do any real comparisons yet so interested in other views.
But recently DJ cartridges have started to become a popular choice (OK the M75 and stanton could be argued as DJ cartridges from the start) which is where I got the S120 idea from. I've also got a good collection of ortofon OM stylii for experiments at different compliances as they go from 7cu up to 25cu without changing the cartridge. Not something of use to many, but gives me an easy way to compare, even if only with bonded tips (but I can do something about that).
But I haven't managed to do any real comparisons yet so interested in other views.
If you have a way to record it, I'd love to hear the different Sylii on the same cart. I can do some analysis, too.
I have all the bits. Just need a few more round tuits to get them all working. New Phono stage which is currently strewn around the house in bits will have an ADC built in and I have a little Maudio recorder with SPDIF in for 'quick rips'. At least that is the theory!
You're scaring me.
We are all in agreement! I found the video that I watched a couple of years ago: YouTube
It's interesting that he does some work that seems to be cosmetic to make the record look like new. He clearly removed quite a deep scratch and the record plays fine.
I tried glue once for lolz. Never again. I've realised that, if a record doesn't respond to scrub, rinse and vac then it's probably beyond recovery. I have considered trying a first playback with an extended line stylus that gets deep into the groove to clean out the gunge on a basket case. I have a well worn micro-ridge that gets right to the bottom of the groove that could be finished off for science.
Ref the click removal I have seen people use a microscope and fine tipped implement (tungsten probes are apparantly very good from ATEs) to pick off the spurs. Not sure I am quite that OCD.
Ref the click removal I have seen people use a microscope and fine tipped implement (tungsten probes are apparantly very good from ATEs) to pick off the spurs. Not sure I am quite that OCD.
That was a method used by vinyl pressing companies during the heydays of analogue sound recording to repair voids, burrs, spurs and other imperfections on laquer discs coming freshly from the cutting lathe. Companies had whole departments were new cuts were auditioned before processing them further for the final stamps and if some imperfections were observed, they tried to remove these manually under the microscope with the help of watchmaker style tools.
I've been snowed under with work and kids but been mulling over what came out from the Rip Pano provided and realised I do have to rethink some thing. Always good when that happens. Does make me wonder what happens with a zero vertical compliance cartridge in the situation where grot is trying to push it at 45 degress. Does it embed it in the vinyl or knock it off?
I'm also wondering about groove damage, where that occurs and best profile to read with. When a stylus wears it slips down in the groove, so at the point it can cause damage it is sitting lower. So does that mean that damage occurs at the contact point of a 1mil stylus, a 0.7mil or somewhere else? I need to think about how to test that.
I'm also wondering about groove damage, where that occurs and best profile to read with. When a stylus wears it slips down in the groove, so at the point it can cause damage it is sitting lower. So does that mean that damage occurs at the contact point of a 1mil stylus, a 0.7mil or somewhere else? I need to think about how to test that.
Thanks for listening and thinking on it Bill. 
Important note: The cartridge used in that rip has a 3dB higher response to a vertical only cut than to lateral only cut. In theory they should be equal, but in practice I doubt they rarely are. This would make out of phase noise louder than it should be.
That's something to think about when setting up a mono system and perhaps when choosing a mono cart.
Important note: The cartridge used in that rip has a 3dB higher response to a vertical only cut than to lateral only cut. In theory they should be equal, but in practice I doubt they rarely are. This would make out of phase noise louder than it should be.
That's something to think about when setting up a mono system and perhaps when choosing a mono cart.
I had some observations fingerpointing to such a dependency. For some old 2nd hand records I observed a different noise level when played with cartridges having different stylus profiles / sizes. If the previous owner e.g. had an elliptical stylus and damaged the groove at a certain 'touching' line, a stylus with a smaller tip sitting a bit lower in the groove or a stylus with a larger tip touching above that line may have lower background noise than a stylus riding exactly at the damaged line height. But how could this be prooved / demonstrated? Maxbe investigating such a record under a microscope?
Pano: You've made me think again. 3dB must be a test track/methodology issue as too close to 1/sqrt(2) to be just a cart misalignment?
Aboos: Good question. Without serious microscopy I am not sure what can be resolved. If you can image the wear surface on the diamond you 'should' be able to get some sort of change of reflection off the surface. I have always assumed that damage removes material so a longer contact surface would 'skim over' the craters, but no evidence this is correct yet. One to test!
Aboos: Good question. Without serious microscopy I am not sure what can be resolved. If you can image the wear surface on the diamond you 'should' be able to get some sort of change of reflection off the surface. I have always assumed that damage removes material so a longer contact surface would 'skim over' the craters, but no evidence this is correct yet. One to test!
Any cartridge with zero vertical compliance will be an instant groove destroyer. A mono cartridge must have sufficient vertical compliance in order to accommodate pinch effect as the stylus is forced upward when tracing high-curvature groove modulation. The important thing for low-noise low-distortion mono playback is that the cartridge produce no electrical output in response to vertical stylus motion -- whether this motion is due to groove imperfections (noise) or to pinch effect even-harmonics.
The GE VR styli allowed some vertical "give" of the tip via twists in the armature bar. The cartridge's push-pull pole piece arrangement at stylus tip made it insensitive to the tip's vertical movement. It thus achieved quality mono playback and low record wear by the day's standards.
The GE VR styli allowed some vertical "give" of the tip via twists in the armature bar. The cartridge's push-pull pole piece arrangement at stylus tip made it insensitive to the tip's vertical movement. It thus achieved quality mono playback and low record wear by the day's standards.
Had to do an online order for some other stuff so added a couple of extra ortofon DJ stylii in. Ortofon has a bewildering array of almost the same cartridge with a different name on the stylus all with similar specs and the same lump of coal bonded conical. I still hope for a good result from my S120 which has a horizontal compliance of 11 and vertical of around 5 but this is no longer available so not of much use to others.
So I will have, that can fit on the same OM body
OM10 25cu
Nightclub Mk II 20cu (Elliptical)
Qbert 12cu
Pro S 7cu
Winner will go off to ESCO for a retip. There is a 6cu and 9cu option but I don't want to get silly, especially when the chance of a null result for noise (or confounders greater than the difference being measured). Should focus me to pull my finger out and do some testing.
So I will have, that can fit on the same OM body
OM10 25cu
Nightclub Mk II 20cu (Elliptical)
Qbert 12cu
Pro S 7cu
Winner will go off to ESCO for a retip. There is a 6cu and 9cu option but I don't want to get silly, especially when the chance of a null result for noise (or confounders greater than the difference being measured). Should focus me to pull my finger out and do some testing.