I think it's No for the first asemption and Yes for the second one.
Maybe this post can help to understand why : Coronavirus: Why You Must Act Now
@ Cal W. : not sure I understood what you meant. Hot water from shower is not hot enough, cold water will do the same as far you have soap. I tried to find how much time you need for the hands : 30 seconds is ok if you do it well (nails, between, fingers, front and back of the hand) . The risk you may have with the cold shower is it's you don't want it to last - So wet yourself, switch the water off, soap yoursel carrefully - then open the water again. Forget me if it was not what your asked.😱
And we know why : confinment and social distanciation greatly reduce the number of this model. Hence the advices and what CE is doing (no fast enough though)
No problem. If you don't have warm water, washing your hands for longer would be recommended. As you said, soap works by tearing apart cell membranes and by protein denaturation (unfolds it). This is molecular activity that all happens much faster when warm, which is why we say to wash with soap and warm water. It will take about 10 times as long according to the thermodynamic rules to do the same "amount of damage". However, honestly, so much good is done by just washing your hands at all that the added efficiency of warm water vs cold is almost moot, so I wouldn't (and don't) worry. Good for surgery prep? No. Good enough to stop the virus? Almost assuredly.
On top of that, the WHO handwashing guideline is shortened for better acceptance. IIRC, the Red Cross First Aid guideline is a much longer duration.
I wondered that too... So I whipped out my small bottle of isopropyl (90% diluted a little) and soaked the fingertip of the glove I had on, which pressed the keypad keys.
They said in airports the kiosk where everyone goes to do the boarding pass is the dirtiest spot in the building - worst than toilet seats. So of course it's logical to assume the card payment pinpad at the super is ground zero. I do.
What is the temp to destroy this virus please ? I read 40°c was not enough , is it fake ? It's my undertanding tht hot water from robinet is less ?!
or less temp could be o but longer time ? How much at 30°c ?
30 seconds with cold water not enough for the hands if carrefully enough ?
or less temp could be o but longer time ? How much at 30°c ?
30 seconds with cold water not enough for the hands if carrefully enough ?
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A mentor of mine used to refer to disinfection as the "rule of tens". Every "level" of cleaning is a single, tenfold order of magnitude (under ideal measurable circumstances). That is, clean with a dry paper towel. Kill/get rid of 90 percent of bugs. Not good enough. Clean with water, 99%. Clean with cold soap and water, 99.9%. Clean with warm soap and water, 99.99%. Clean with warm soap and water followed by ethanol, 99.999%. +UV, 99.9999...etc.
Great analogy with the numbers. Thank you again Sean. If I have to, I think I will wash with the cold and then wash again, and leave the soap on when I dry my hands.
Then I'll go hug someone and kiss them on the cheeks. 😉
Then I'll go hug someone and kiss them on the cheeks. 😉
cold water + soap : 1/1000 to have enough to contamine (touching the lips for instance)
warm water (robinet) + soap : 1/10000
Can it be read like that ?
with beards it changes the model 😉
warm water (robinet) + soap : 1/10000
Can it be read like that ?
with beards it changes the model 😉
Ok, my apologies for confusing.
There is no "temp that will kill the virus" that is a single answer. It's all about time. Technically, people will usually state that cold water and soap will be ten times less effective than warm water and soap. Warm would be 35-40C. But that is over time. So, 30 seconds is 300 seconds with cold water to be the same level decontamination.
However, I argue that the sheer fact that you are washing at all is significant enough. If I know I just came into direct contact with a person who is sick, I'll be scrubbing with warm water. Otherwise, just thank you for washing your hands at all. Temp is fine. Warm is warm. Don't worry so much about the temperature, worry more that you are washing your nails. It's nasty under there. And why people who bite their nails tend to have slightly more exercise immune systems. But don't bite your nails now!
Do you always purchase them in every shop that you visit, and make a point of doing so.....?
Yeah, that's another way of putting it. Although I hesitate to put a real number on a probability. There's just too much to take into account.
And yeah, it totally does change with a beard! Especially if you are sick as a distribution source!
This is exactly the tone of the conversations we have been having in lab. The sad truth is that we don't really know how this will go. Large quarantine efforts to curb a highly contagious, airborne pathogen covering both developing and developed nations are unprecedented in "modern times". At least since we figured out what these bugs actually are. We are very worried that our efforts will be basically pointless. We could, if we wanted, stop the virus completely. But we have to stop society to do it. We have a good idea of the mathematics of transmission, but we can't model (well) for economic pressure, frustration, political BS, boredom, selfishness, altruism, etc.
the % change between the cold and the hot is very high. Have the habit to wasch my hand with cold water, I'm to change for warm or very much longer with the cold water (after the crisis for the cold water)!
ahaha, yes beard was a jokeof me for Cal Weldon according what he said just before and his avatar.
ahaha, yes beard was a jokeof me for Cal Weldon according what he said just before and his avatar.
I assume in the lab there is also a large degree of interest (or morbid fascination) to see how it will go? I do not envy the advisors telling governments what to do at the moment but see that out of the next 12-18 months will be a huge increase in our knowledge in many areas and science we couldn't have done without this horrific outbreak.
Ehhh, less than you'd think. Certainly there is a extreme interest, but I bet the sociologists are more interested than us. And the epidemiologist of course. But, as a virologist, I painfully admit that we are often a bit myopic on the virus itself as opposed to its spread.
That in no way contradicts what I said.
As long as we have not got a vaccine the virus will be out there.
All we can do is to try and slow down the spread by social distancing, hygiene etc. and that gives our health services a chance to save as many people as possible.
Just look at the numbers in Germany: They have not run out of ICUs yet and with 7272 confirmed cases they have only 17 deaths and 67 recovered.
Obviously they will at some point and then their death rate will increase.
Compare that to France with 6650 cases, 148 deaths, 12 recovered or the UK with 1551 cases, 55 dead and 20 recovered.
ICUs save lifes and slowing down infection gives more patients access to those ICUs because some will die and some will recover freeing ICUs for others who without would definitely die.
I've been to an intensive care ward in Germany and the sheer volume of spare capacity was astounding. Probably less of a quarter of ICUs was in use at any one time in that particular hospital.
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What are people wearing when you need to go out, say, for weekly groceries? Obviously frequency of such excursions and dress will play some role in avoiding infection.
I wore a balaclava with the drawstrings pulled tight so only my eyes were exposed. Over these I wore an ordinary pair of safety glasses. All was to avoid accidentally touching my face. I also had cloth gloves on, ski jacket and two layers of pants. I did look kinda weird, caught a few "look at that guy" glances... Saw only an occasional mask and / or exam gloves on others here in Washington state.
Strip off gloves to handle the car wheel, on arrival back home shoes come off outside the garage; jacket, pants, gloves and balaclava hang out there with the car. Do I need to hit the car door handles / steering wheel and gear shift with alcohol / chlorine?
I prepped a small bottle of isopropyl alcohol for my pocket. A cloth would have been useful, to wipe off keypads and touchscreens in use at checkout - I didnt bring one.
The touchscreens did respond to fingers covered with latex exam gloves. The checkout lines were significant compared to an ordinary Monday morning and I wondered if all the people standing together was a bad situation to be part of.
What are good DIY prophylactic measures? Today was just my first guess with materials I happened to have on hand. I'm open to improve my routine. No idea whether to immediately wash the "exposed" clothing or just let 'em hang out in the garage for example.
I wore a balaclava with the drawstrings pulled tight so only my eyes were exposed. Over these I wore an ordinary pair of safety glasses. All was to avoid accidentally touching my face. I also had cloth gloves on, ski jacket and two layers of pants. I did look kinda weird, caught a few "look at that guy" glances... Saw only an occasional mask and / or exam gloves on others here in Washington state.
Strip off gloves to handle the car wheel, on arrival back home shoes come off outside the garage; jacket, pants, gloves and balaclava hang out there with the car. Do I need to hit the car door handles / steering wheel and gear shift with alcohol / chlorine?
I prepped a small bottle of isopropyl alcohol for my pocket. A cloth would have been useful, to wipe off keypads and touchscreens in use at checkout - I didnt bring one.
The touchscreens did respond to fingers covered with latex exam gloves. The checkout lines were significant compared to an ordinary Monday morning and I wondered if all the people standing together was a bad situation to be part of.
What are good DIY prophylactic measures? Today was just my first guess with materials I happened to have on hand. I'm open to improve my routine. No idea whether to immediately wash the "exposed" clothing or just let 'em hang out in the garage for example.
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