Are you doing your own scientific experiments, or are you relying on other people's?
I’ve done lots of testing and making scientific measurements. I’ve also done a lot of studying and reading about other people’s knowledge and validated experience. I have an open mind and am very interested in new developments. Snake oil and unproven marketing qualifications don’t match with physics and science. I don’t see why I should defend myself any further against snake oil and opportunistic marketing.
Regards, Gerrit
Regards, Gerrit
Snake oil surely is stating that a component, or a given quality of that component produces an audible improvement.
If the ears cannot hear it then it is either below threshold, or a false claim.
Real snake oil relies on placebophiles internally projecting a quality onto the item.
If the ears cannot hear it then it is either below threshold, or a false claim.
Real snake oil relies on placebophiles internally projecting a quality onto the item.
If there is indeed new physics and science in "snake oil", then it's easy to demonstrate it with a proper listening protocol.
I'm waiting....
The thing with "snake oil" is that you have to wait a very very very very very very very long time, iow infinity long, before you get a positive in a proper listening protocol.
And with actual real new science/physics it's there really fast.
Agreed that many high-end audio manufacturers try selling lots of still unprovenly audible equipment with ridiculous pseudo science. My point is, we don't have to deny a phenomena just because of the market, be we have a point to be angry.
While it doesn't have to be new laws of physics, I believe it might be based on ridiculously simple physics, but we are probably looking at the phenomena from a wrong point of view.
Many sellers are also guilty with their marketing babble, because they force this potentially wrong point of view. Somehow skeptics in this field have the right to backfire.
Personally, a bit of my small leftovers of spare time is dedicated to my own research of the influence of cables in audio systems. My hypothesis and research say it is not due to electrical influence, but because of mechanical transfer of energy through the whole system equipment. I need some more time to figure out and prepare a non-sighted test.. hopefully, one day.
While it doesn't have to be new laws of physics, I believe it might be based on ridiculously simple physics, but we are probably looking at the phenomena from a wrong point of view.
Many sellers are also guilty with their marketing babble, because they force this potentially wrong point of view. Somehow skeptics in this field have the right to backfire.
Personally, a bit of my small leftovers of spare time is dedicated to my own research of the influence of cables in audio systems. My hypothesis and research say it is not due to electrical influence, but because of mechanical transfer of energy through the whole system equipment. I need some more time to figure out and prepare a non-sighted test.. hopefully, one day.
It will be a pleasure. You must analyze the behavior of the power cable according to Ohmn's Law. Electrically, of course, I don't see how else could it be done..... Mechanically? Oh, come on, so no thread can stand up to serious debate...
I will give you a simple, somewhat uncomfortable but 100% definitive example so that your concern is satisfied.
The general reasoning here is that you would have to have a cable many meters long and too thin to introduce any significant resistance, which in turn would cause the voltage to drop and affect the sound, but while true, that would only slightly reduce the SPL obtained by having less power.
Remember ExI = Watts.
So let's forget the power cables to do an experiment
much more decisive! Make your solid-state amp behave , but I do not want to leave the subject) as if it were the amplifier of your car, feed it with DC! No impurities there, right?
A few 12 volt 40 amp batteries connected in series will do the trick to power the + and - needed.
Just disconnect the PSU output and connect the cables at that point.
And if you find audible differences, and convince WAF, you will be a happy man.
Don't forget to mention the result, if you do, although it seems that many want to run this thread before it runs out, as I just contributed!
Since the topic has morphed...
Not just Ohm's law - you've forgotten that connecting cables may have capacitance, so you will start to lose the hi of your hi-fi if they are long enough. The reason valves were developed was for repeater stations on the telegraph network.
Without looking back and checking, I seem to remember this thread was about being surprised at buying equipment which was underpriced for what it was.
kind regards
Marek
Not just Ohm's law - you've forgotten that connecting cables may have capacitance, so you will start to lose the hi of your hi-fi if they are long enough. The reason valves were developed was for repeater stations on the telegraph network.
Without looking back and checking, I seem to remember this thread was about being surprised at buying equipment which was underpriced for what it was.
kind regards
Marek
Again, read the first sentence of my quoted text...
What is the reason to think of a power cable electrically?
I thought most cables satisfy the power requirements of most home audio systems. P=ExI ? Seriously? What are you powering at your home?
Don't worry, I can hear differences between power cables feeding DC only.
What is the reason to think of a power cable electrically?
I thought most cables satisfy the power requirements of most home audio systems. P=ExI ? Seriously? What are you powering at your home?
Don't worry, I can hear differences between power cables feeding DC only.
No, sorry.
This thread that I started has been butchered as most all threads are, into a plethora of unrelated subjects, conclusions, and of course debates.
But it's the internet, and its "ways".
I think it's time to shut this one down.
😛
I think you have every right to ask people to stay "on topic", but no right to tell them to just stop exploring a topic and where it goes.
Do remember you started by giving an opinion and you may be wrong. If all the valves are gassy, the fancy capacitors all leak and the output transformer is shorted, $20 may turn out to be too high a price for that amp, no matter how High End pretty the front plate was.
My view, for what it is worth, is that you've started a thread that had more than one purpose and people have simply responded and run with the bit that meant something to them.
kind regards
Marek
Do remember you started by giving an opinion and you may be wrong. If all the valves are gassy, the fancy capacitors all leak and the output transformer is shorted, $20 may turn out to be too high a price for that amp, no matter how High End pretty the front plate was.
My view, for what it is worth, is that you've started a thread that had more than one purpose and people have simply responded and run with the bit that meant something to them.
kind regards
Marek
barking the wrong tree
I just made aware of this thread today. And obviously I haven't gone through all 34 pages of the entire thread. I do feel the need to chime in. I echo member ndcraig's sentiment in post#48 that of all the insanely expensive audio items out there including ridiculously priced interconnect and speaker cables, you have to pick on the one that's actually reasonably priced.
Dude, $800 for a tube phono preamp that includes two MC step-up transformers (a pair of Jensen SUT would cost you at least $150 as raw parts) is not outrageous at all and when you figure in the cost of running a business. I don't know Tim personally but have interacted with him on social media and he's a no-nonsense guy and with his reputation he could easily charged double the price and people would still pay for it. There are so many OTHER products and examples to mock but you just have to pick this one. Unless you have personal beef with this company, you're barking the wrong tree. I don't get it.
I just made aware of this thread today. And obviously I haven't gone through all 34 pages of the entire thread. I do feel the need to chime in. I echo member ndcraig's sentiment in post#48 that of all the insanely expensive audio items out there including ridiculously priced interconnect and speaker cables, you have to pick on the one that's actually reasonably priced.
Dude, $800 for a tube phono preamp that includes two MC step-up transformers (a pair of Jensen SUT would cost you at least $150 as raw parts) is not outrageous at all and when you figure in the cost of running a business. I don't know Tim personally but have interacted with him on social media and he's a no-nonsense guy and with his reputation he could easily charged double the price and people would still pay for it. There are so many OTHER products and examples to mock but you just have to pick this one. Unless you have personal beef with this company, you're barking the wrong tree. I don't get it.
Seriously, even if you try building this WITHOUT overpriced audiophile parts, it will get expensive. Remember you have a:
-Power supply (transformer)
-High voltage capacitors
-Enclosure, preferably metal
-Connectors, switches,
-Tubes
Try building this under 50$.
Yes, doable, if you're a frequent visitor of flea markets, scrap yards and know how to stash junk. But what about the average DIYer?
-Power supply (transformer)
-High voltage capacitors
-Enclosure, preferably metal
-Connectors, switches,
-Tubes
Try building this under 50$.
Yes, doable, if you're a frequent visitor of flea markets, scrap yards and know how to stash junk. But what about the average DIYer?
The key statement in this whole thread was given my the thread starter in his very first post:
If it cost $900 new, and used ones are now going for $2500, then these things are well liked and people are willing to pay a premium for them. There aren't to many things in this hobby, or anyplace else where this is true.
I have not verified either of those prices, nor do I intend to. I built my phono stage for maybe $10, and I have used it for over 10 years. I'm sure it's not the weak link in my system, so I haven't paid much attention to it.
In any case, I would never spend $900 for any component in my system. I have no issue with someone else doing that IF they can afford it, and if it made them happy. I know a few people who have $20K to $50K in their stereo systems....I don't spend that much for a car.
If it cost $900 new, and used ones are now going for $2500, then these things are well liked and people are willing to pay a premium for them. There aren't to many things in this hobby, or anyplace else where this is true.
I have not verified either of those prices, nor do I intend to. I built my phono stage for maybe $10, and I have used it for over 10 years. I'm sure it's not the weak link in my system, so I haven't paid much attention to it.
In any case, I would never spend $900 for any component in my system. I have no issue with someone else doing that IF they can afford it, and if it made them happy. I know a few people who have $20K to $50K in their stereo systems....I don't spend that much for a car.