I rarely use the first, but often the 2nd. The latter usually experienced when the inside wall is too close to the drivr cone.
Boomy, or bloated would be terms i use, i suspect, related to yout honky.
It is a great difficulty that the attempts to translate the sound with our ear/brains into verbal or written communication. I would suspect that the interpretation of the terms to have wide variance. And then add in English as a 2nd language, not to mention the many flavours of English. I commented to a lady at the bank that i liked here accent, she was from South Africa and reminded me of my Canadian accent :^)
dave
Useful advice, thanks. I mean, this thread is already jammed full of useful advice from you and many others but hey ho, I still feel the need to thank you for each one
Now this sounds interesting. I'm fairly sure I'm not going to make a 20+ litre box for these, so no doubt they'll sound a little bit, errrm, something... "Honky", "boxed in", "cramped", or generally "kinda crap", who knows. I know they're not going to sound like the great big flat down to 19hz system I've always dreamed of so, ya know, it all helps!
And not just in speakers eh! The amount of music I've heard with the impression of strong bass on a smaller system which then sounds lifeless when played on something with sub-20hz capabilities - astonishing. Then
again, it does rather separate the wheat from the chaff.
A total side note, but this this whole last 3 years audio journey of mine started when I was totally happy with my 20 year oldTannoy M3's and low end Rotel Amp "first real system", And went on went on a ski (well, snowboard) holiday, and the guy running it had a genelec 12" studio sub* and some old Mackie monitors hooked up properlu via a mojo and bubble UPNP, all set up in the penthouse "eagles nest" apartment. I sat there in the sweet spot, transfixed, for quite a while. Now, I can't afford a system like that (he used to run a studio, nowadays he keeps that setup the back of in his T4 work pannel van (feeling an entire van shake somewhere around 19-25hz is still magical). I'm still kicking myself for not buying a genelec twin 12" 30 minutes from me for a mere £1k on ebay. That'd have been my bass sorted for the entirety of my life.
We've since become friends, though when I got home, popped some music on my Tannoys via the Rotel, and thought "what the feck is this mess. I've since spent £1-2k getting it sounding far better, though I know that properly set up those Mackies and the Genelec woul still walk aoo over it... Just not quite so much now
Now this I can relate to - I had a very similar experience growing up in Vancouver, only to return to the UK around age 12. My fathers job etc. When I thought the accent was gone, I'd still get people commenting on how Canadian I sounded, for many many years actually. Hey-ho, it got me a canadian citizenship and passport (thank you parents!!!!!!!!) so I (and my Canadian GF) can sod off to Canada should the whole Brexit thing go horribly wrong. Sorry about that folks, it wasn't my Idea, nor my vote.
Oh they'll end up against a wall, little doubt about that, the room is fairly small and is intended to be me and the GF's bedroom when she moves in. I do have permission to build a custom under-bed 12" subwoofer though. She's a keeper.
"Or you can add a simple 2 component baffle step compensation circuit" - now this is completely above my pay grade. If it's simple, I may give it a go down the road once boxes are made, but for now I'm just going to keep it simple (less room for error!) Thanks for the idea though, I'll have to learn what one actually is first
Anyways, on to progress - I work slow and am easily distracted. I disassembled an old chest of drawers which yielded a nice thick top panel for the baffle, and plenty of 10mm (reenforced by batons all over it, drawer slides) ply for sides and bracing. Super handy. I'm up nice and early today so it might be the day to start slapping 'em together.
This forum by the way... Flrickin BRILLIANT. Many thanks to everyone. If this whole speaker building thing takes off, you might see me again, begging for help, and again, being extremely grateful for receiving it!
I'm not sure I mentioned it yet, but the 20 litre box I was intending to make iis flipping HUGE for a little single driver, so I'll be aiming for anywhere between 15 litres (70hz -3db roll off) and 19 litres (68hz -3db roll off). I can't remember what it was, but the 20 litre box only gained me a couple HZ more depth, so sod it. form over function for this one, and they'll be getting paired up with a sub (eventually, I hope) so high 60's is just fine and dandy.
This forum by the way... Flrickin BRILLIANT. Many thanks to everyone. If this whole speaker building thing takes off, you might see me again, begging for help, and again, being extremely grateful for receiving it!
I'm not sure I mentioned it yet, but the 20 litre box I was intending to make iis flipping HUGE for a little single driver, so I'll be aiming for anywhere between 15 litres (70hz -3db roll off) and 19 litres (68hz -3db roll off). I can't remember what it was, but the 20 litre box only gained me a couple HZ more depth, so sod it. form over function for this one, and they'll be getting paired up with a sub (eventually, I hope) so high 60's is just fine and dandy.
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One daft question... I have some old 5.5" inch drivers which could, if sufficiently attacked with appropriate tools, act as passive radiators. Is this a stupid idea? I suspect so but it's worth asking.
Pics of said drivers, and current progress below.*
*I spent most of the night searching for some much more suitable drivers i had in some sealed ugly as hell fibreglass boxes (pic below) which sounded punchy as all hell in my volvo 340 back in the day. The tweeters got all pushed in, but I'm sure the main drivers are about somewhere. I can find the crossovers and tweeters for god's sake, but the chaos of my house makes finding the main drivers quite a job.
Pics of said drivers, and current progress below.*
*I spent most of the night searching for some much more suitable drivers i had in some sealed ugly as hell fibreglass boxes (pic below) which sounded punchy as all hell in my volvo 340 back in the day. The tweeters got all pushed in, but I'm sure the main drivers are about somewhere. I can find the crossovers and tweeters for god's sake, but the chaos of my house makes finding the main drivers quite a job.
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Passive radiators are much more complicated than just including some random, unpowered drivers in a box. I wouldn't go there if I were you!
Passive Radiator - Technology :: Thiel & Partner - accuton
My advice to you is to have your 'car speakers in the house' moment, and when you tire of that, move on to designing some proper hi-fi speakers.
Passive Radiator - Technology :: Thiel & Partner - accuton
My advice to you is to have your 'car speakers in the house' moment, and when you tire of that, move on to designing some proper hi-fi speakers.
My advice to you is to have your 'car speakers in the house' moment, and when you tire of that, move on to designing some proper hi-fi speakers.
You know what, you're dead on right there
In fact, this whole faffabout came from inheriting a pair of (pic below) Behringer B2031A's.
8 inch driver down there and it doesn't reach anywhere remotely near as low as my ancient Tannoy M3's. In fact, I'm generally all round not much of a fan.
But, the powered amps on the back... They could be useful. The box is sturdy... Could be handy. The drivers work.... Hmm, maybe find a home for them somewhere else? etc etc etc
Anyways - thinking about that made me realise I can have my car speakers in the house moment as a bit of practice
8 inch driver down there and it doesn't reach anywhere remotely near as low as my ancient Tannoy M3's. In fact, I'm generally all round not much of a fan.
But, the powered amps on the back... They could be useful. The box is sturdy... Could be handy. The drivers work.... Hmm, maybe find a home for them somewhere else? etc etc etc
Anyways - thinking about that made me realise I can have my car speakers in the house moment as a bit of practice
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Given placement near a wall a BSC circuit is unlikely to be needed… with the peakiness at the bottom, perhaps the opposite.
bafflestep is a phenomenom that many compensate so as to get a flat on-axis FR, but the effort means that the room response becomes higher than it should so BSC is always a tradeoff. I rarely find a need for such a circuit, finding they often degrade the sound. i guess it depends on whether you are in the set of people who enjoy exagerrated bass.
dave
Once a sealed box gets to a certain size, small gains in extension take large increases in box size. Given the volumes you are talking about, a bit more damping fill will give the apartent size of the larer box. I wouldn’t fret. A vented box is more critical.
dave
A PR is a vent substitute often used when the box is small and the tuning low, so a vent becomes impractically large. First off your driver is not suited to a vented box so any vented box is not a good idea (an aperiodic vent should be considered a pressure valve, not a tuned vent). A PR also complicates things by adding another resonance to the system (so not like a normal vent in that respect). A PR also tends to want to be a size larger than the driver in the box.
dave
Yeah, sod that, I'm keeping it simple and my expectations realistic.
Ok, understood... Again simple is best. Good stuff. I am not one of those who enjoy exaggerated bass, but I do require, in my main system, full range audio with the bass at the appropriate level, going as low as possible. I'm still kicking myself for not buying a twin 12" genelec subwoofer for only £1k a couple years back - that'd be all my sub low end sorted fo the rest of my life.
Yep, I noticed thatthe change from 19 to 28 litre was a mere 5 hz -3db roll off. I'm now making them based on the size of the pieces of wood I have from smashing up an old chest of drawers.
Pic below. It's what I got, so It's what I'm making! Should end up about 13/14 litres. Meh, who cares, this is just the beginning of my journey from farmer-who-likes-audio to the next Grand master FitzWilliam Finkle-McGraw in the world of DIY audio. The nice fat 1" front baffle piece is being saved for when I make something a little more hi-fi an less car-drivers indoors in a box.
I'm also filming little bits and will stuff them together on youtube as a (very) basic introduction to first time speaker building. It keeps me entertained while doing the boring bits
Been a bit distracted today so not much work done, but I'm about to so some late night box panel chopping. The neighbours can just deal with the sound of a bandsaw or jigsaw, they have 8 kids and make enough noise they can't complain!
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Your idea to dismantle these is hasty. The lack of bass extension is intentional.
And before I go cutting stuff up, while everyone has been immensely helpful, I feel I should particularly thank planet10/dave for being a standout first attempt at some very compromised speakers. Dude, thank you VERY much.
Thanks to everyone on this thread too. It's been quite the learning experience.
Yeah, switches on the back to roll off at 50, 80, and 100 hz, to match up with a subwoofer. Problem being I don't like them enough to spend time or money (or both) to get a subwoofer to pair them up with. They pop like mad when turning them on/off, they audibly hum from the back, and hiss from the front. If I can do anything with them, it'll be for a small room where bass extension isn't an issue.
Thanks to everyone on this thread too. It's been quite the learning experience.
Yeah, switches on the back to roll off at 50, 80, and 100 hz, to match up with a subwoofer. Problem being I don't like them enough to spend time or money (or both) to get a subwoofer to pair them up with. They pop like mad when turning them on/off, they audibly hum from the back, and hiss from the front. If I can do anything with them, it'll be for a small room where bass extension isn't an issue.
Subwoofers are really the easiest diy speaker project. For £1k you could probably build 2 push-push woofers and have 2x the cone area and the (really, when in a room) minimum 2 subwoofers.
dave
Progress stopped because of broken bandsaw blade (pic). And it's 23:30 here, windy as all hell, and not conducive to a nice relaxed sawing up of baffles and side/back panels.
And I'm very tired with work tomorrow.
Why didn't anyone tell me that before I started faffing about with these drivers!?
Subwoofer will be second project. I have a 12" (again) car subwoofer to act as a mock up unit, and will model the box on known T/S parameters from something half decent I'll buy and put in place of the mock up sub. Something quick and musical like the BK XXLS400 in my main system. Quite excited about that one to be honest. Except for amplification and crossover - best value in the uk I found so far is a BK 275w jobbie at £161.
I still owe a fair chunk of money for my last snow trip so unfortunately it'll be a while until I have money to fling at decent drivers.
. And it's 23:30 here, windy as all hell, and not conducive to a nice relaxed sawing up of baffles and side/back panels.And I'm very tired with work tomorrow.
Why didn't anyone tell me that before I started faffing about with these drivers!?
Subwoofer will be second project. I have a 12" (again) car subwoofer to act as a mock up unit, and will model the box on known T/S parameters from something half decent I'll buy and put in place of the mock up sub. Something quick and musical like the BK XXLS400 in my main system. Quite excited about that one to be honest. Except for amplification and crossover - best value in the uk I found so far is a BK 275w jobbie at £161.
I still owe a fair chunk of money for my last snow trip so unfortunately it'll be a while until I have money to fling at decent drivers.
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On the subject of subwoofers... I'd love something to augment my XXLS400 and provide the window rattling 15-25hz range. Big, vented, possibly doubling as a table. Pipe dreams.
It was pretty mellow really, it just stopped moving. the bandsaw is completely enclosed save for the actual cutting bit, so no worries at all there. Zero fear, zero drama.
It's a cheap second hand bandsaw I got from a shop nearby that is filled with tools of all kind. Pick something up, ask the guy what it'd cost, and then get an answer. I believe it cost me £30. I got a perfectly good pillar drill there too, same price. I really should go back there sometime, see if there's a router an the right bits in the pile of tools.
It was pretty mellow really, it just stopped moving. the bandsaw is completely enclosed save for the actual cutting bit, so no worries at all there. Zero fear, zero drama.
It's a cheap second hand bandsaw I got from a shop nearby that is filled with tools of all kind. Pick something up, ask the guy what it'd cost, and then get an answer. I believe it cost me £30. I got a perfectly good pillar drill there too, same price. I really should go back there sometime, see if there's a router an the right bits in the pile of tools.
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