Richard, thanks for the schematic.
I can certainly see the benefit to driving the externals with the audio, as they would tend to be major dust collectors with a constant bias.
Are ESL's designed for normal maintenence, like dusting the inner film? I assume you wouldn't want to wait until little snaps occur, as I could see pinholing as an issue.
jn
Agreed. I saw no easy way to get the sock off. Unfortunately... might have to destroy it to save it
🙂
-Richard
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Mark a serious question, do you trust the listening reports of someone who listens habitually at such a high level that their tensor tympani contracts?
Hey, leave my tensor tympani out of it.......they never did anything to you!
Seriously though, I ease into every listening session for at least an hour to let the equipment warm up and my ears equalize to the loudness.
I saw no easy way to get the sock off. Unfortunately... might have to destroy it to save it
🙂
-Richard
Assuming it's an ESL63, push the top to the side, the sock is fastned with velcro.
Inside there are also extra dust covers made og same material as the membrane.
Edit; found a video, see first minut; YouTube
/örjan
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Quoted for future reference.Where did I contort the truth and please don't weasel out. I've zero tolerance for lying.
Which real location did you see those "most claims"? Any links, names...etc.? Something tells me that I shouldn't hold my breath.In reality, most claims 'called out' as snake oil are merely things that are not well understood. Same as with silver plated copper wire in PTFE, except even less well understood.
In your own bubble, of course.Actually it does its called 'big data.'
It's easy to silence the critics, back up the claim with evidence. BTW, anecdote isn't evidence.The claim of snake oil seems to come from the advertising. Okay, fine to severely criticize that. But not fine to deny that they can affect sound quality if used in certain ways. That would be to simply to deny reality which is not what scientists are supposed to do. They are supposed to set aside their likes and dislikes and find out the truth whatever it may be.
I have a (nearly 3) year old at home that proves my point. We named her Vidya for the goddess of wisdom. Actually should have been Kali. Daily she reminds me of the scene from Jurassic park that ends 'clever girl'. She will go far and leave a trail of destruction behind her. I'm so proud that the hybridisation program seems to have worked...

Hey, leave my tensor tympani out of it.......they never did anything to you!
Seriously though, I ease into every listening session for at least an hour to let the equipment warm up and my ears equalize to the loudness.
This is quite good and dumbed down so I can understand it How The Ear Works
Then I must have missed your vision on a possible relation AC Mains and HF roll off.
As I stated earlier with the magnetically driven structures I work with, the spring constant of the flux force changes as the drive is resisted. Because of that, the amplitude vs frequency and the phase plot change, which when within a PID loop, can cause instability for a hard tune. The same effect to some degree will occur with an electrostatic drive when the efield potentials are changed.
Do you have any numbers on how well that regulates? The only losses would be the transformer loss, so how well can the VDR's work? edit: oops, they are on secondary of transformer. I would think that was an inrush limiter to the ladder, I can't see how that will regulate once the load is charged.VDR1 and VDR2 do the “some regulation” that I mentioned.
Are you sure that's the reason for the neon? I would have said the ten meg resistor was the limiter.The neon bulb provides the charge current but limits the current when one of the panels becomes short cicuited.
Hans
jn
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Matt,
Looks like I need to gitter dialed in before I turn 60 😛
I have plenty of friends that have babied their hearing but yet still have deficits.
I’ve read something about genetics having a lot to do with your tolerance for loud noise/music.
Unfortunately my genes didn’t include vision....I’m right at the threshold of legally blind! I really think that has something to do with my hearing sensitivity.
Heh, My sighted listening ends when I take off my glasses!
Looks like I need to gitter dialed in before I turn 60 😛
I have plenty of friends that have babied their hearing but yet still have deficits.
I’ve read something about genetics having a lot to do with your tolerance for loud noise/music.
Unfortunately my genes didn’t include vision....I’m right at the threshold of legally blind! I really think that has something to do with my hearing sensitivity.
Heh, My sighted listening ends when I take off my glasses!
ESL’s are within covered on both sides by a mylar foil, acoustically transparant but completely preventing dust to get in the system.Richard, thanks for the schematic.
I can certainly see the benefit to driving the externals with the audio, as they would tend to be major dust collectors with a constant bias.
Are ESL's designed for normal maintenence, like dusting the inner film? I assume you wouldn't want to wait until little snaps occur, as I could see pinholing as an issue.
jn
Totally maintenance free.
But when this film gets teared, or somewhere else an air leak develops, you are in big trouble an within a few months the ESL will breakdown.
Hans
So is everyone on every forum who reports that they glommed in an expensive capacitor and it sounded better suddenly trusted?
Probably not.
As Jakob said, one has to decide who to trust. IMHO that's a manageable risk.
So, this is what all the blah blah blah really boils down to?As Jakob said, one has to decide who to trust.
Yes, it boils down to personal decision, a.k.a. opinion. Some want to equate opinion with evidence if it fits their narrative.
If people didn’t share opinions you’d never be able to figure out if your own opinions are valid.
I like to think I have an open mind and not dismiss out of hand what people say they hear, yet we all know how fickle hearing can be, but if it boils down to me or anybody else having to choose whose perception to trust and who's not to, then give me measurements any day. We don't have to put a threshold on them regards what can and cannot be perceived.
...We don't have to put a threshold on them regards what can and cannot be perceived.
Hope you haven't forgotten: Jakob recently pointed out that published hearing thresholds are not intended to be limits of any kind.
Life in general very few people I trust. In audio I don't trust anyone to tell me how something will sound. No point. As Scott said some years back describing audio is only really valid in the moment as a shared experience.You might have missed it, but therefore I wrote that the audio field is no exception within our human life. I guess when doing considerations in other parts of your life, there are people whose thought/opinions/recommendations you trust.
I value being able to make up my own mind. And intelligent discussion to be able to bounce ideas around and learn from others. Contradiction is part of this. Those who are not able to discuss things at an adult level I tend not to interact with. Ed is an exception 😛If the people who you trust contradict the thoughts of people who you do not trust, do you then conclude - as the range includes everything - that it is all worthless?
Or could it still be that you value some thoughts higher than others?
I seriously don't know if the "community overall" agrees that "silver cable sound bright" - although I certainly know people who think so - but within the group of people whose thinking I value high, that surely isn't the agreed consensus.
Again, the audio field is no exception; picking some extremes might sometimes help to illustrates certain points but that's it; there is no poll that estimates the average opinion on "bright silver cable sound" with good precision, is it? 🙂[/QUOTE]
If you say so. I don't bother to read all his posts, I made that decision for myself.Hope you haven't forgotten: Jakob recently pointed out that published hearing thresholds are not intended to be limits of any kind.
Doesn't it have something to do with the membrane's mechanical characteristics (tension) changing in response to different polarizing voltage? After all, Quad membranes are made from elastic material.We are drifting away from the question: has the applied AC Mains voltage effect on the HF roll off frequency of the ESL speaker ?
My Stax Lambda Pros do sound different (to me) when fed from lower bias non Pro socket on SRM-T1 unit. Also, there have been reports from large diaphragm capacitor microphone users that sound of the mic changes when polarising voltage is changed from recommended value.
You know who not to trust. 😉If you say so. I don't bother to read all his posts, I made that decision for myself.
Hope you haven't forgotten: Extraordinary claims need extraordinary evidence.Hope you haven't forgotten: Jakob recently pointed out that published hearing thresholds are not intended to be limits of any kind.
Sorry, an additional resistive force on an electrodynamic speaker may have effect on the FR but that does not at all apply here.As I stated earlier with the magnetically driven structures I work with, the spring constant of the flux force changes as the drive is resisted. Because of that, the amplitude vs frequency and the phase plot change, which when within a PID loop, can cause instability for a hard tune. The same effect to some degree will occur with an electrostatic drive when the efield potentials are changed.
As mentioned before, just changing the magnet for a stronger one will cause no additional effect on the FR only on the gain, same for a higher charge on the membrane, higher gain but same FR.
PID loops, instability etc have nothing to do with a possible AC dependency that we are discussing, so we are turning in circles around the real issue IMHO.
Yes, you can’t charge the membrane through the 47nF cap that’s in series with the 10Meg.Are you sure that's the reason for the neon? I would have said the ten meg resistor was the limiter.
Hans
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