Missed the test setup discussion. I was probably looking for the big block diagrams and bold caps that makes sense to me...
I know, we are a tough audience. The average sub 5 sproglet is still worse 😛
Sproglet??? I have never heard that before...understand it, just never heard it..😀
That said, you owe all sub 5 sproglets an apology...😉
jn
Richard, thanks for the schematic.
I can certainly see the benefit to driving the externals with the audio, as they would tend to be major dust collectors with a constant bias.
Are ESL's designed for normal maintenence, like dusting the inner film? I assume you wouldn't want to wait until little snaps occur, as I could see pinholing as an issue.
jn
I can certainly see the benefit to driving the externals with the audio, as they would tend to be major dust collectors with a constant bias.
Are ESL's designed for normal maintenence, like dusting the inner film? I assume you wouldn't want to wait until little snaps occur, as I could see pinholing as an issue.
jn
A very interesting power supply for RNM's electrostatic loudspeaker.
As I read it, a line voltage step up transformer drives a resistor bridge where there are two voltage dependent resistors driving a voltage multiplier stage that delivers the final voltage through a capacitor protected neon lamp. This voltage is marked as I read it to vary from 5 to 25 kilovolts.
The audio is fed through two step up transformers in a balanced configuration to membranes that are on each side of the high voltage charged panel. Across the input to the transformers there is a clipper circuit that with a bit of a low pass filter is set to limit the input to the transformer to 30 volts peak or so.
There is a 555 circuit which I suspect is an audio turn on delay.
It appears there is not very good regulation on the high voltage supply. Seems to me the stiffness of the membranes would be quite dependent on the actual high voltage level as at DC they are effectively grounded.
As much as it pains me to ever think JN might be right about something.... 🙂
As I read it, a line voltage step up transformer drives a resistor bridge where there are two voltage dependent resistors driving a voltage multiplier stage that delivers the final voltage through a capacitor protected neon lamp. This voltage is marked as I read it to vary from 5 to 25 kilovolts.
The audio is fed through two step up transformers in a balanced configuration to membranes that are on each side of the high voltage charged panel. Across the input to the transformers there is a clipper circuit that with a bit of a low pass filter is set to limit the input to the transformer to 30 volts peak or so.
There is a 555 circuit which I suspect is an audio turn on delay.
It appears there is not very good regulation on the high voltage supply. Seems to me the stiffness of the membranes would be quite dependent on the actual high voltage level as at DC they are effectively grounded.
As much as it pains me to ever think JN might be right about something.... 🙂
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I have a (nearly 3) year old at home that proves my point. We named her Vidya for the goddess of wisdom. Actually should have been Kali. Daily she reminds me of the scene from Jurassic park that ends 'clever girl'. She will go far and leave a trail of destruction behind her. I'm so proud that the hybridisation program seems to have worked...
I'm not sure whether to say "my work here is done" or "I hate your guts"😀
Actually have been having success with the 1-72 tapping of aluminum. Did make a tap block to support the tap vertically, and actually tap directly on the mill immediately after drilling the #53 bit hole. The four jaw comes in today, I can't wait..tools, must have more tools..
Oh, btw. Now looking for a pin vice that can hold these taps, the tap tool with handle is way overkill, I just spin the knurled part between thumb and forefinger..
jn
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We are drifting away from the question: has the applied AC Mains voltage effect on the HF roll off frequency of the ESL speaker ?
Be aware that the membrane of an ESL is driven with opposite signals from two sides.
The same current sourced from one side is sunk on the other side.
This is a push-pull topology where the audio signal does not charge/discharge the membrane.
The force on the membrane will be altered when HV changes, giving the ESL a different gain, but that applies to all frequencies and not just HF.
However there is some regulation in the HV voltage to compensate for changing AC voltages.
Compare the charge on the membrane to the magnetic field strength working on a voice coil.
Increasing this field strength with stronger magnets does alter the gain but not increase the FR of an electrodynamic speaker.
Hans
Yah, it says XP on it anyway......I’ll take your word for it but they sure did a good job making it monstrous!
Kindly weird the way it corroded like a candy cane.
Attachments
We are not drifting, that is the crux.
Yes, that is clear from the schematic. It works exactly the same with either the plates or the membrane pushed by the audio.
Again, as I pointed out earlier, the system phase and amplitude response of the physical systems I work with are altered by the drive force as well as the resistance to that drive force. That is why I mention it in regard to an electric field driven system.
The schematic Richard posted does not appear to be regulated.
I do wonder why the hv goes to the film via a neon bulb, it would seem that anytime the bulb exceeded threshold it should ionize and produce a click. Maybe that cap across it prevents that. Also, neons are light sensitive, I wonder if it's shielded from light?
jn
Anecdotes again. We have measurements of a bybee and not sure any mechanism besides a small DC resistance is found. So either the science that found the higgs boson is wrong or people are hearing things that are not there...
Almost impossible given the data set. First thing it would spew out is that silver cable sounds 'bright' and go downhill from there. If we could adopt a tonewheel approach to reporting on what we hear there would be something, but whilst we are using the blunt tools of uncalibrated language you are panning for gold in a place where there is none. All IMO.
I didn't say stationary distortion. It may look like noise on an FFT, but sound like distortion. For example, quantizing noise sounds like distortion more than it sounds like noise, at least is does to me.
Also, I agree with Paul Frindle and Jakob on listening reports from trusted listeners (and of course we all know other people disagree with those views).
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So is everyone on every forum who reports that they glommed in an expensive capacitor and it sounded better suddenly trusted? I wouldn't trust any of them.
Mark a serious question, do you trust the listening reports of someone who listens habitually at such a high level that their tensor tympani contracts?
You might have missed it, but therefore I wrote that the audio field is no exception within our human life. I guess when doing considerations in other parts of your life, there are people whose thought/opinions/recommendations you trust.
If the people who you trust contradict the thoughts of people who you do not trust, do you then conclude - as the range includes everything - that it is all worthless?
Or could it still be that you value some thoughts higher than others?
I seriously don't know if the "community overall" agrees that "silver cable sound bright" - although I certainly know people who think so - but within the group of people whose thinking I value high, that surely isn't the agreed consensus.
Again, the audio field is no exception; picking some extremes might sometimes help to illustrates certain points but that's it; there is no poll that estimates the average opinion on "bright silver cable sound" with good precision, is it? 🙂
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That's my understanding too. Peter Walker ( for an unbaffed diaphragm ) derived
P = (Isignal * Vpol)/2picrd, r measuring distance, d plate spacing.
My guess is that change HV might be at most secondary effect on HF.
/örjan
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I already told you multiple times that there are many out there. Audio Asylum forum is a prime example which by the official forum rule DBT is not allowed to be brought up. As you have said,
Then I must have missed your vision on a possible relation AC Mains and HF roll off.
VDR1 and VDR2 do the “some regulation” that I mentioned.
The neon bulb provides the charge current but limits the current when one of the panels becomes short cicuited.
Hans
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