It's called real world experience.
Every single engineer on this planet worth his salt has had to troubleshoot intermittent and lousy contact problems.
Perhaps if they had read the textbooks a little better (or perhaps Google), they might realize that the problems they are paid to solve on a daily basis actually don't exist.
You keep touting this huge wall of test equipment ad nauseum, do you actually turn them on?
A hint...some here actually have real world experience with contact non linearity, despite your assertion that it cannot exist.
Jn
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Hi T, good to have you still here. Jack Bybee has been very good to me, both as a colleague (someone who can actually teach me a lot) and as a contributor to my personal audio system. I have, in return sold him a CTC Blowtorch and he also has a Vendetta SCP-2 phono preamp that he still uses.
Unfortunately, he bought a couple of JC-1's and quietly sold them, and now is using the latest version of the amp that Mike designed (with some of my help) which contains music rails, along with much else. I just wanted to keep up with Mike, so I added them to the JC-1.
Unfortunately, your opinion of Bybee is prejudiced, but then I don't blame you. His ad copy is awful! I have reminded him of this for decades to no avail. Still, his stuff works and is based on quantum mechanical principles, except for the Music Rails that are entirely composed of typical electronic parts. Without seriously trying his stuff, there is no need for discussion.
Unfortunately, he bought a couple of JC-1's and quietly sold them, and now is using the latest version of the amp that Mike designed (with some of my help) which contains music rails, along with much else. I just wanted to keep up with Mike, so I added them to the JC-1.
Unfortunately, your opinion of Bybee is prejudiced, but then I don't blame you. His ad copy is awful! I have reminded him of this for decades to no avail. Still, his stuff works and is based on quantum mechanical principles, except for the Music Rails that are entirely composed of typical electronic parts. Without seriously trying his stuff, there is no need for discussion.
Apparently my wall of test equipment is not big enough.
When the control room calls at 2 in the morning on a Saturday because the machine protection system tripped due to a lousy contactor or connector, I guess we should give them syn's number so he can post some verbage explaining how it can't be.
Ps.. I love these anonymous internet experts..
jn
Pps. We recently had to beef up the current through hundreds of contacts, as so many require a current spike at closure to make a reliable connection..but, that's just real world stuff..
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Totally prejudiced, as I tried to explain. I try to be open minded, so I don't presume the purifiers can bring some improvements or not. But as it is secret sauce, and pseudo science fiction explanations on the ways they work, I have some kind of allergy. ;-)
So much so that, if I had tried one, if I had found an obvious positive effect, I would not talk about it, even under torture ;-)
I guess I've led a charmed life as I told Ed I simply have not run across much of anything in 42yr. that was not simply pathological or broken. Remember my tech and I did the first (or nearly first) -130dB oscillator article we never used anything but the plain old Pomona jiffy-clip connectors. I did this stuff for years with Walt Jung, things like series connecting all 25 contacts in a D-shell connector, nada, nothing ever showed up in a measurement. Mogami, Belden, and other stranded cables are not hermetic I have never had a problem.
I have something worse than Bob, a 4 meter Monster cable from the 80's totally green inside. Give me a test for it.
As for relays we used Couch and Teledyne literally by the thousands for 100's of millions of operations, never had anything but catastrophic failure at end of life. I was never once called to the floor because of unexplained parametric failures.
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Measure Ls/Rs 1khz to 100khz, with very careful shorted cal. (Note, I find that I have to redo a shorted cal at every frequency I run).Duplicate with a brand new identical gauge zip. Any litz style effect should show inductance change at the higher frequencies. You must have repeatability at the 10 nH level. That will not be possible below a kHz or so, but as freq rises, repeatability and accuracy will improve.
Sweep a pure sine 20 to 100khz, 2 or 3 amps peak into a 4 ohm pure resistance. Look for increased noise in the dirty cable as freq goes into the changed Rs regime. Expectation from back of envelope calcs is anywhere from 10e-2 to 10e-4 below drive frequency levels.
Oh, btw, use some plumbing flux to solder the ends to a new copper surface, the RA flux is needed to cut the surface garbage and take contact issues out of the equation.
I was hoping you'd do the waveform modulation sideband thing though, as your contact friend did support the back half of the premise.
Jn
No contact failures, you are lucky. Downtime here is 37k per hour, guess that is why failures occur. So far I've had to autopsy three different parts and types of failure mechanisms.
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Numbers, NUMBERS please. I’ve already recognized the phenomenon, but until someone can wrap it in some numbers, it’s effect in the realm of audio remains an extraordinary claim. Audio doesn’t use superconductor electromagnets running at 50,000 amps.
P.S. Please don’t try again to shift the focus; this is NOT about contacts.
Scott, may I suggest two scenarios, on a somewhat philosophical level.
Several witnesses report an out of the ordinary sighting.
Two scientists are looking into the matter.
The first starts from the assumption that these witnesses are reliable, and seeks to find an explanation for these observations.
The second, not having himself witnessed the phenomenon, being unable to connect it to his actual knowledge, denies the reliability of these testimonies.
We often see these two behaviors in action (on the phenomena of UFOs, for example).
Which of these two experts is more likely to come across some interesting discovery? Which one has the best scientific approach ?
Of course it is about contacts. The fact that it is within the wire does not mean it cannot exist.
With all that test equipment you own, you cannot do a bog simple test?
The numbers have already been shown, the levels are not extraordinary. You just have to stop being lazy, come down from the cheap seats, and turn your equipment on.
I'm more than happy to walk you through the required tests and how to verify accuracy of your measurement setup.
Ps. It is also trivial to age test samples in an oven, to watch Rs increase over time. Makes for really neat 3 d plots...Rs vs freq vs bake time.
Jn
As to 50 kilo amp superconducting magnets, we only do 20 to 30 kA here. I am called for consult for the bigger ones, but do not make those puppies.
However, they are all tested at room temp, and that is where I find abnormalities of the type being discussed here. Thousand amp cables cold can only handle two amperes at room.
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Really, and I thought it’s about Faraday induction between oxide isolated strands.
Otherwise, understood. Your real world experience has no data to show, and provides only fast talking, unsubstantiated claims, oblique attacks, and lip service.
Otherwise said, a pile of bull chips.
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No matter how hard a company tries, there will be problems sooner or later. I had a call to a lab about an intermittent high precision voltage divider.... giving inconsistent results to their work. As soon as I saw it, I knew such contacts would be silver. The divider had been set and never changed in years. I spun the knobs around back and forth and all was good again. The wiper contacts needed use and the silver oxidized over time and never got self cleaned from any wiper use. They decided to excercise the contacts from time to time afterwards.
Experience fixed it in a few minutes. Did not have to be taken out and shipped to company for "repair". The experimenters were happy to get things running right away.
A lot of things i say is from experience and from tests. Real world stuff. Unfortunately, I didnt rigorously document everything for the future DIYAudio forum guys. Some here give me the thought that if they havent experienced it themselves, it doesnt exist. Right, Syn08?
THx-RNMarsh
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You can't follow an actual technical discussion, can you.
I wondered how long it would take you to drop to your standard attack regimen.
Why don't you turn on some of your fancy equipment and do something?
Jn
If I may answer:
The first is a scientist that has nothing better to do then sit and scratch his ***; rather than dealing with such assumptions he would be much better polishing his resume, he may need it very soon. Although I would not mention this investigative method.
The second is a responsible busy scientist that doesn’t have the time and resources to deal with each and every sci-fi hypothesis. He prefers to concentrate his efforts on incremental additions to the existing body of knowledge, rather than chasing butterflies with a broken net.
There.
Q.E.D.
No data to show, and everybody interested can read back a couple of pages where this debate started, as much as what was the topic and how/where you derailed it.
BTW, my pile of equipment and how/when I use it is none of your beep business.
Sorry, but I find it difficult to translate these *** which are scattered throughout most of your interventions.
I'll give you a number: "Conductance quantum Go=2e(squared)/h =1/(12.9kohms)"
What class did you learn that in?
What class did you learn that in?
Undergraduate level, Quantum Electrodynamics, don’t remember the course number, I think it was a 6th semester optional course. Prerequisite for semiconductor physics and technology. Used when we eventually studied the Hall effect.
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