Interesting alignment of the two AMT's to fix the vertical dispersion 'problem'. I would call the problem a feature that fixes the problem of to much vertical dispersion which results in ceiling and floor reflections.
The real problem is integrating the off axis responses of a round midwoofer to a AMT/Ribbon/planar linesource tweeter.
MTM with a couple of small mids (creating a line) is how I fixed it and I believe this is the way to go; very wide horizontal constant directivity and narrow vertical off axis response. Narrow Planar tweeters seem to have the best/most constant horizontal off axis response.
The real problem is integrating the off axis responses of a round midwoofer to a AMT/Ribbon/planar linesource tweeter.
MTM with a couple of small mids (creating a line) is how I fixed it and I believe this is the way to go; very wide horizontal constant directivity and narrow vertical off axis response. Narrow Planar tweeters seem to have the best/most constant horizontal off axis response.
That wouldn't sit right with side speakers and center speaker being at different heights and seating be at 6-9ft. I need a remedy for it.
the ribbon will give the widest dispersion of them all
If your set on those HiVi woofers then I would try to cross over to the Neo 1.0 at somewhere between 3.5 and 4 kHz.
If your set on those HiVi woofers then I would try to cross over to the Neo 1.0 at somewhere between 3.5 and 4 kHz.
If tilting the speakers forward/down by 5-10 degrees does not give enough vertical coverage, you can use 2 ribbons/AMT/planars in their normal orientation, 1 pointing ~5 degree up and the other ~5 degrees down and tilt the speakers some more forward. Other option is use a straight line of even more tweeters and EQ the highs back in to make up for their comb filtering. See YT But... What about Line Source AND Line Array Loudspeakers?
The narrower the tweeter/driver, the wider the off axis response in the highest frequencies it emits.
The narrower the tweeter/driver, the wider the off axis response in the highest frequencies it emits.
Will I have to search for thinnest as well as shortest ribbon tweeter available. Do you guys have any recommendations.
Vertical dispersion problem? What vertical dispersion problem??
Hahahaha. 🙂
Ok, seriously though, controlled dispersion leads to increased fidelity. Less ceiling and floor bounce to worry about. If you want uniform horizontal and vertical dispersion, which may really not be a good idea, go with a great ring radiator or dome.
Hahahaha. 🙂
Ok, seriously though, controlled dispersion leads to increased fidelity. Less ceiling and floor bounce to worry about. If you want uniform horizontal and vertical dispersion, which may really not be a good idea, go with a great ring radiator or dome.
That may be good thing but the problem is with height at which the speakers will be installed. Center channel tweeter will be at around 25" height while Side and Surround will be at around 40". Usually ear level of people will be around that 40" mark. How bad will be the experience with center channel at 25" for lets say sitting at 8' away on axis and 5-6' away off axis be.
I was going through net finding for similar sources and came across this
What kind of tweeter is used there, is it AMT?
Knowing the brand reputation of Steinway Lyngdorf I doubt they would have paired it that way unless they had a work around and had intention of solving the short-come of just implementing it vertically.
What kind of tweeter is used there, is it AMT?
Knowing the brand reputation of Steinway Lyngdorf I doubt they would have paired it that way unless they had a work around and had intention of solving the short-come of just implementing it vertically.
"Knowing the brand reputation of Steinway Lyngdorf I doubt they would have paired it that way unless they had a work around "
and yet they have abandoned that approach in all their new speakers
It looks to thin ( meaning narrow width of diaphragm) to be an AMT probably a ribbon
some have used that arrangement BUT all the tweeters are usually not operating at the same frequency's so they may not have as many problems at the higher freqs. Could be the two outer ribbons operate at lower freqs of treble only the outside ones are tilted so maybe trying to focus treeble? Hard to say whats going on here
I would say in your room / situation the little Neo 1 will work just fine if you tilt the center speaker up just a little.
the combo of that small metal cone and small ribbon will have very good clarity IFb you bend them well. I would stay with a higher crossover though, probly 4 KHz. that ribbon wont do well below that.
and yet they have abandoned that approach in all their new speakers
It looks to thin ( meaning narrow width of diaphragm) to be an AMT probably a ribbon
some have used that arrangement BUT all the tweeters are usually not operating at the same frequency's so they may not have as many problems at the higher freqs. Could be the two outer ribbons operate at lower freqs of treble only the outside ones are tilted so maybe trying to focus treeble? Hard to say whats going on here
I would say in your room / situation the little Neo 1 will work just fine if you tilt the center speaker up just a little.
the combo of that small metal cone and small ribbon will have very good clarity IFb you bend them well. I would stay with a higher crossover though, probly 4 KHz. that ribbon wont do well below that.
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For person sitting to side it is 13° off vertically and for person sitting at center it is 9° off. That can be a problem. If I tilt it it still wouldn't solve problem for person sitting on sides and only solve for person sitting at center.
Yes I will cross it higher than 4KHz probably 5-5.5K as that woofers are pretty flat throughout that frequency range.
Still need to solve the issue with the tweeter. Dome tweeters are not satisfactory unless I spend like $500 each and which is not good. Not saying that there are no good dome tweets available at much meaningful budget range but as they are, they are no where near as satisfactory as ribbon tweeters.
Yes I will cross it higher than 4KHz probably 5-5.5K as that woofers are pretty flat throughout that frequency range.
Still need to solve the issue with the tweeter. Dome tweeters are not satisfactory unless I spend like $500 each and which is not good. Not saying that there are no good dome tweets available at much meaningful budget range but as they are, they are no where near as satisfactory as ribbon tweeters.
"The tweeter used in the Model O is the uniquely engineered Air Motion Transformer used in all Steinway Lyngdorf speakers."
Model O| Steinway Lyngdorf | The world's finest audio systems
Model O| Steinway Lyngdorf | The world's finest audio systems
dayton mini planar is good for 5kHz and up.
2 PCS lot Professional Planar Speaker A transducer HiFi AMT ribbon tweeter 8 Ohm on AliExpress is good for 3.5kHz and up. Better protected with the plastic ribs, double the 'weight' (200 gram) and more sensitive.
To me both these cheap planars sound so much better then the JBL control 25 titanium domes I compared them to; extremely detailed and no listening fatigue, more fun to listen to.
If you can put your speakers just above head height and tilt them ~15° forward, you should be good with 1 tweeter per speaker. You just have to cover the ears vertically.
2 PCS lot Professional Planar Speaker A transducer HiFi AMT ribbon tweeter 8 Ohm on AliExpress is good for 3.5kHz and up. Better protected with the plastic ribs, double the 'weight' (200 gram) and more sensitive.
To me both these cheap planars sound so much better then the JBL control 25 titanium domes I compared them to; extremely detailed and no listening fatigue, more fun to listen to.
If you can put your speakers just above head height and tilt them ~15° forward, you should be good with 1 tweeter per speaker. You just have to cover the ears vertically.
The thing is that I cannot bring the Center channel speaker to head height as there is large TV just above it.
that woofer IMO is not truly great above about 4 k. better crossed at 3 k really for absolute best perf but at 4 k it should still be quite good
At those angles and distances you mention a single neo 1.0 should be good
that woofer is clean to about 4k then it struggles. the neo 1 cant get a good crossover any lower than about 4k and is very good above that. Pretty good match at 4 k
A little better woofer would be great but those HiVis at 4 k should be quite good
At those angles and distances you mention a single neo 1.0 should be good
that woofer is clean to about 4k then it struggles. the neo 1 cant get a good crossover any lower than about 4k and is very good above that. Pretty good match at 4 k
A little better woofer would be great but those HiVis at 4 k should be quite good
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Now only thing I am concerned of is how bad it will effect the experience of listening when it is 9-13° off axis.
Is there no workaround it. Besides tilting the speaker as if I do that I guess it will result in even worse experience for people sitting to sides while improving it for people sitting at center. Correct me if I am wrong. And also if I am wrong what am I miscalculating.
Is there no workaround it. Besides tilting the speaker as if I do that I guess it will result in even worse experience for people sitting to sides while improving it for people sitting at center. Correct me if I am wrong. And also if I am wrong what am I miscalculating.
" For woofer I am picking up 4 x HiVi B3N in parallel."
HiVi B3N 3" Aluminum Driver Round Frame
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/297-428-hi-vi-b3n-specifications-45054.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/297-428-hi-vi-b3n-specifications-44339.pdf
Why did you choose this driver and are you aware you will get 6.4/4= 1.6Ohm minimum impedance?
I use FRS 8 M - 8 Ohm | Visaton
$9 Visaton FRS 8M – Thomann United States (even cheaper in the US then in Europe? (€9,50))
2 in parallel (4Ohm) or 4 in parallel series (8Ohm) match the Dayton mini planar perfect in output with a 5kHz x-over.
Be aware that frs 8 and frs 8m are different drivers.
HiVi B3N 3" Aluminum Driver Round Frame
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/297-428-hi-vi-b3n-specifications-45054.pdf
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/297-428-hi-vi-b3n-specifications-44339.pdf
Why did you choose this driver and are you aware you will get 6.4/4= 1.6Ohm minimum impedance?
I use FRS 8 M - 8 Ohm | Visaton
$9 Visaton FRS 8M – Thomann United States (even cheaper in the US then in Europe? (€9,50))
2 in parallel (4Ohm) or 4 in parallel series (8Ohm) match the Dayton mini planar perfect in output with a 5kHz x-over.
Be aware that frs 8 and frs 8m are different drivers.
You would have to do some checking to be positive. I will give an off the cuff response here from what I can remember but dont have time now to check to be sure.
I believe with a 45 mm long ribbon like Neo 1.0 your looking at approx. -3db at 10khz at 15 deg off axis vertical, and about -2 db at 9 degrees
Im of opinion that above 10k doesn't matter enough to be concerned in your center chanel situation much but some will want to goto war on that ha
IMO not a real problem in your case
I believe with a 45 mm long ribbon like Neo 1.0 your looking at approx. -3db at 10khz at 15 deg off axis vertical, and about -2 db at 9 degrees
Im of opinion that above 10k doesn't matter enough to be concerned in your center chanel situation much but some will want to goto war on that ha
IMO not a real problem in your case
I have read positive of it so selected it. I am open to better recommendations. I don't care how it looks aesthetically as the speaker will have cover panel so drivers won't be visible.
Can you make just one thing clear. If I tilt the tweeter at an angle which directs it to person sitting directly in center, how will it effect person sitting to the sides(horizontally 45°). If it will get worse for person sitting at sides it is not what I want.