No, I can’t read nothing relevant from you posts; only blank claims and no substance. The graph you shoved doesn’t justify your claims in the text, and even if your claims would be true -154dB is still far from what is needed to characterize -160dB.
Please show your data and prove your claims. Until, you are walloping in unsubstantiated statements.
hey waly, dude....
Have you ever gone inside to "improve' any of your test equipment? I have.
Started with the HP339A and did several levels of mods and upgrades. Spec is .0018% and a loop back will get you just that. But with some fine tuning adjustments added and newer opamps, and parts changes you can get that thing much better. See here are 3 mod levels all make the 339A do much better than spec. Normally just a tick below the .2 on the meter.
I did similar to a couple Khron-Hite ultra low distortion generators. On that i can tweek an added control/pot to completely eliminate 2H or the 3H. When set for 50-50 level for each, the distortions are still far below stock.
Here it is with 2H removed.
All opamps changed to optimum new types and added 2 pots for distortion tune/min.
Note too in your straw man that my gen is not the same as your gen... the ShibaSoku I have is newer 🙂 a AG16B.
Have you even had the cover off your ShibaSoku gen? let alone made any adjusts inside?
When, you have a custom gen at -145-155 range, it isnt hard to get rid of remainingdistortion below -160. But that is a gen not shown here.
THx-RNMarsh
Have you ever gone inside to "improve' any of your test equipment? I have.
Started with the HP339A and did several levels of mods and upgrades. Spec is .0018% and a loop back will get you just that. But with some fine tuning adjustments added and newer opamps, and parts changes you can get that thing much better. See here are 3 mod levels all make the 339A do much better than spec. Normally just a tick below the .2 on the meter.
I did similar to a couple Khron-Hite ultra low distortion generators. On that i can tweek an added control/pot to completely eliminate 2H or the 3H. When set for 50-50 level for each, the distortions are still far below stock.
Here it is with 2H removed.
All opamps changed to optimum new types and added 2 pots for distortion tune/min. Note too in your straw man that my gen is not the same as your gen... the ShibaSoku I have is newer 🙂 a AG16B.
Have you even had the cover off your ShibaSoku gen? let alone made any adjusts inside?
When, you have a custom gen at -145-155 range, it isnt hard to get rid of remainingdistortion below -160. But that is a gen not shown here.
THx-RNMarsh
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PS - the custom, variable frequency generator is designed and made for me by DIYAudio's Davada who lives in western Canada.
I think only 2 exist.
Remaining harmonic residue can be removed/attenuated further with filters.
-RNM
I think only 2 exist.
Remaining harmonic residue can be removed/attenuated further with filters.
-RNM
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Richard,
You never answered Scott’s question why anybody should want to be able measuring -160dB or even -150dB for audio purposes.
So what’s driving you on this very bumpy road.
Hans
TE may have an amplifier which goes that low and if so, who can measure it? Thats one reason.... and why i said i would measure it for him. Might ask Waly the same question. I did answere that question a few back. When SY asked.
It seems to be a fall-back question. Like -- OK maybe you can measure that low then. But who cares, anyway?
Another reason is to make the best amp you can possibly make and finally just for the challenge of it. To learn from it. To learn all the big and the small contributors to a good sounding amp as well.
I measure everything.. not just amps.
THx-RNMarsh
It seems to be a fall-back question. Like -- OK maybe you can measure that low then. But who cares, anyway?
Another reason is to make the best amp you can possibly make and finally just for the challenge of it. To learn from it. To learn all the big and the small contributors to a good sounding amp as well.
I measure everything.. not just amps.
THx-RNMarsh
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Don't worry, it will never go that low in real life. Just LTSPICE simulations.
If, miraculously, this were the case, it would only have the interest to arouse the curiosity of some "believers" in "measurements tell all".
But the question is why to waste your time and good mood answering the attacks of this kind of individuals ?
While they pretend measurements are the only way to evaluate the quality of an audio gear, they are absolutely not interested by the subject to improve the performance of their measuring instruments.
They just try to make their images shining with their little friends by trying to tarnish that of the others. In a constant inelegant and unfriendly way.
A phenomenon well known on social networks, they are called haters.
YouTube
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T, I really hope you can get a good amp. However, the opinion of syn08 and PMA is based on a very strong reason and you may easily end up with a ticking time bomb if you are not completely on top of it. Murphy gave one law impervious to all arguments.
We could of course talk about lock in amplifiers to look at distortion levels well below what the current method of choice, Fourier analyzers are capable of doing.
When generating a test signal one can create sine and cosine waves and their harmonics. Thes test signals may have corrections added to them by a lock in amplifier. Once cleaned to the test limit a device under test may be fed the base frequency sine wave and measured one harmonic at a time for amplitude and phase.
When generating a test signal one can create sine and cosine waves and their harmonics. Thes test signals may have corrections added to them by a lock in amplifier. Once cleaned to the test limit a device under test may be fed the base frequency sine wave and measured one harmonic at a time for amplitude and phase.
These "some believers" must be an insignificant small group, and why should you feel it as your responsibility to feed these "believers" with info where you don't believe in it yourself.
However more and more I get the feeling that you and Richard are the real members of this group, that seems the only explanation why this -160dB discussion goes on and on.
How do you know that they pretend measurements being the only way ?
So far I haven't seen any attack from "this kind of individuals".
The only messages that I have seen from knowledgeable people are containing exactly the opposite trying to tell that going beyond a certain point is a dead end street.
This is an unworthy almost childish reaction, please stick to the facts instead of feeling attacked all the time.
Hans
Don't worry, I'm in contact with VERY good, and nicer, renowned EEs. I mean, real *professionals* in audio and electronic. (Some are sometimes on this forum, more discreetly). They were nice enough to have a look at it.
No one reported such a thing like your "ticking time bomb", but some suggestions on improvements for reliability that i applied or will see on the bench.
The thing is the guy (i don't put them on the same bag) you are referring to had not understood that my first schematic was just a simplified one to put a frame on what I was hoping, in vain ?, to be a collaborative project.
it takes a minimum of friendship and mutual respect to work as a group and understanding of the context.
Its contemptuous remarks were and are still based on this rough schematic. Never a positive suggestion from him in order to advance the project. Never a positive comment on some ideas i had. Not a curiosity about some pretty good simulation results. He never even tried to simulate it.
Not even an effort to understand my tries and my targets. Only critics on obvious things not addressed at this time. I have no respect for this kind of people and I just ignore their opinions.
Same behavior from them with DADOD, whose work deserves, for sure, lot of respect (look at its Input stage) . They critic his amp, never even tried to simulate it. Pure unfounded speculations ... to show their guts ?
Criticizing a super car without even sitting in it with the scale of value of tractors !
The only thing SYN08 brought, till now, was insults about my competencies in his usual manner.
Some details can be improved ? As always. adjusting some values, (better noise figure?), but it is all. A question of choices of compromises.
If it is about stability of the final version, that is something that I master since 1970 and all the precautions has been took to can compensate-it nicely on the bench without any printed board modification. No other way, we don't cook on the restaurant table. Clipping behavior ? Look-at it.
I don't know a better way to verify the solidity of an amp, than torturate-it on the bench.
It is not my first amp. And, during my professional career, I had some sold by thousands: good reviews, no abnormal issue after sale . Despite murphy was on our side. As always.
Appointment on the measurements of the final version. I'm confident and just curious to discover how it will sound.
End of comments about this amp, not the right place here, my thread is still open for to suggestions but not for slurry.
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@Hans_Polak,
Could be due to the fact that you haven't read back because there is a lot of "attacks" to find.
Some members seem to be on a religious like mission (at least it looks like that to me), convinced to know the TRUTH and feeling the urge to constantly attacking other member (while quite often fooling themselves).
Combine that with personal animosities and the apparent inability to admit having made an error and voilá......
@scottjoplin,
It's very probable that I do know more than "you" and vice versa, and how on earth should I be able to know what kind of psychoacoustics "you all share" ?
And still HE hasn't got the foggiest idea what you're driving at, and up to now, it seems that you refuse to clarify ......
Might be something new every week, after "FUD shouting" "wasting time", inventing of the famous "scare quotes" and others, but HE does not know. 🙂
Could be due to the fact that you haven't read back because there is a lot of "attacks" to find.
Some members seem to be on a religious like mission (at least it looks like that to me), convinced to know the TRUTH and feeling the urge to constantly attacking other member (while quite often fooling themselves).
Combine that with personal animosities and the apparent inability to admit having made an error and voilá......
@scottjoplin,
It's very probable that I do know more than "you" and vice versa, and how on earth should I be able to know what kind of psychoacoustics "you all share" ?
And still HE hasn't got the foggiest idea what you're driving at, and up to now, it seems that you refuse to clarify ......
Might be something new every week, after "FUD shouting" "wasting time", inventing of the famous "scare quotes" and others, but HE does not know. 🙂
About noise figure, it should be interesting to share our experiences about this point.
Ok, the need of a low pass filter is obvious.
Let's put a 6dB/Oct one before the amp's input .
We face a compromise between the load of the preamp at HF (and its distortions under this load), that request a large enough value for the serial resistance, not to forget the possible use of a simple potentiometer, and the noise this resistance brings.
Another question. As long as this noise is not boring, even with a high efficiency speaker, don't we have advantage to hide distortions behind ?
Ok, the need of a low pass filter is obvious.
Let's put a 6dB/Oct one before the amp's input .
We face a compromise between the load of the preamp at HF (and its distortions under this load), that request a large enough value for the serial resistance, not to forget the possible use of a simple potentiometer, and the noise this resistance brings.
Another question. As long as this noise is not boring, even with a high efficiency speaker, don't we have advantage to hide distortions behind ?
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I sure must have missed something in this huge thread.
But if so, why not simply act as mr Teflon and ignore people with a religious mission.
Hans
"We all share", is what I said (what do your quote marks mean?) you as well, believe it or not
No, I don't refuse to clarify. There are elements of psychoacoustics that we all share, those which have evolved as an aid to survival as T mentioned, and those which apply to individuals' experiences etc. I'm asking to which you refer. I hope that is clear and you are able to answer.
Is the above trolling another attempt to divert?
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Well, Damir's showed similar excellent SIM and it also measured exreamly well. So, maybe yours too will be ultra low distortion. Yes, probably wont have to go to the trouble to looking at -160 But should be really really good.
I am not concerned about some Gods here but instead not let the other side- line readers left wondering if they are right. They are not. For the others, go to the test equipment section and you will see how to get down there.
First your amp will get the -140 test gear and if that shows promise, go to the full blown ultra low system. It is a royal pain to do because the ac power, EMI and HF noise from all sources needs to be ultra clean and double/triple shielded cables etc. Waly has the gear but he doesnt know how to use to full advantage, it seems.
THx-RNMarsh
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What about the measurements of the room acoustics where you've done your listening evaluations to find out which amp is good sounding?
All in your imagination. Why? Because you can't quote one post showing such thing.
Word of caution, if you keep pushing him like that, he will threaten to put you on his ignore list (as if that means something). 😉
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