Wolf's Nephilia is most excellent. Parts Express has a new slim line transmission line that is supposed to be a killer for the money. Not a kit. Dayton Audio MK442T 4" 2-Way Transmission Line Tower Speaker Pair
For a self contained inexpensive kit, the TriTrix is excellent tritrix - Parts Express Ships Fast and Ships Free.
For a self contained inexpensive kit, the TriTrix is excellent tritrix - Parts Express Ships Fast and Ships Free.
dtaylo3: Hi, thanks 🙂 - Unfortunately parts-express being "over there" makes it a bit of a bummer, high shipping price and import taxes 🙁, so I either have to piece it together locally, or go for a different option.
Hi Katrine,
that was a general term for a type of speaker... sorry if it was unclear. That would have lead to a more or less self-designed speaker, but I feel now that this is maybe not your direction...
However, I see now that you´re from Denmark, Hej! If you´re able to read german, have a look at the diy-magazine hobby-hifi, plenty of choices that will fit in your limits, perfect documentation and at least for newer developments, availability in Europe should be fine.
You´ve asked about fullrange designs... and if you´re just a little bit adventurous and like to leave the main road, have a look here: FAST_5" speaker,
as personally I like to do my own things...
As Dave pointed out, a small fullrange like those have a lot of disadvantages: the Fast5TML will not play very loud, there´s no deep bass, complex and relatively loud passages will easily sound congested, treble is beaming (which might be a good thing in several situations...), but many people like such stuff for coherence, 3-dimensionality and fine dynamics. A Fast5 is a cheap way to try this out, but the pentagonal TML requires some skills...
However, there are endless possibilities. Troels´ designs are a sensible choice, many others are easy to do, several vendors in Europe sell complete kits. The choice is yours...
Could have copied a few interesting pages for you (in german sadly...), but I´m at work in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean and don´t have my magazines with me...
All the best
Mattes
that was a general term for a type of speaker... sorry if it was unclear. That would have lead to a more or less self-designed speaker, but I feel now that this is maybe not your direction...
However, I see now that you´re from Denmark, Hej! If you´re able to read german, have a look at the diy-magazine hobby-hifi, plenty of choices that will fit in your limits, perfect documentation and at least for newer developments, availability in Europe should be fine.
You´ve asked about fullrange designs... and if you´re just a little bit adventurous and like to leave the main road, have a look here: FAST_5" speaker,
as personally I like to do my own things...
As Dave pointed out, a small fullrange like those have a lot of disadvantages: the Fast5TML will not play very loud, there´s no deep bass, complex and relatively loud passages will easily sound congested, treble is beaming (which might be a good thing in several situations...), but many people like such stuff for coherence, 3-dimensionality and fine dynamics. A Fast5 is a cheap way to try this out, but the pentagonal TML requires some skills...
However, there are endless possibilities. Troels´ designs are a sensible choice, many others are easy to do, several vendors in Europe sell complete kits. The choice is yours...
Could have copied a few interesting pages for you (in german sadly...), but I´m at work in the middle of the Atlantic Ocean and don´t have my magazines with me...
All the best
Mattes
This two way design uses high rated SB_Acoustics aluminun cone drivers in a 1100mm tall cabinet to put the tweeter at ear level and extend bass performance.
SB17NAC-4 6" midbass
SB26ADC-4 1" dome tweeter
$200 for drivers + crossover parts
200mm wide x 300mm deep x 1100mm tall
2" internal diameter port, 6.7" long
- or -
3" internal diameter port 16.2" long
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I think you are right! If it was not my very first venture into this world, I would not mind so much 🙂 But I think I will need too much help if I start doing self-design as the first thing.
Hej! - I can sort of muddle my way through, my boyfriend happens to be german, so I would be able to get help 🙂
I saw the hobby-hifi speaker kits (and others) here: Lautsprecher-Bausatze online kaufen | hifisound.de My problem is I have no idea if they're any good - or maybe rather, which one is the better one for the money / my use 🙂
I don't mind going off the beaten path, but I think it's a bit early for my adventures 🙂
Thank you, german should not be a problem, but atlantic ocean of course would be! 😀 - oil rig thing?
Thank you for the comprehensive answer, I feel like the more I know, the less I know what to do. 🙄😱
Hi, that looks an awful lot like something from troels that I have been eyeballing, just a more affordable version.. Hmm! interesting. 🙂
FRs attempt to cover the entire spectrum with a single driver. Small ones typically are really good top/mid, but struggle in the bottom 2 or 3 octaves. Big ones (sometimes) do bass but suffer high up. Some add a whizzer, essentially you have a mechanical 2-way. Efficient ones often need rear-loaded horns to get gain in the bass. A single driver is limited in its ultimate loudness capabilities.
The latest FR drivers (the Mark Audio are affordable too), often have very good bottom without sacrificing top. Certainly as extended as most 2-ways, without any crossover anomalies. Including what an XO does to the impedances, often making them a better match to higher output impedance SE amplifiers.
And many, many do not listen loud enuff to worry about those limits.
You really need to listen to some good examples to judge whether the compromises make sense for you. People are often blown away with what a good FR can do.
The Pensils are proven ML-TLs that are designed to be tuned to your room/room placement/taste as to the bass.
dave
Hi Katrine,
no oil rig thing... oil rigs are near the coast, for reasons. I´m on a research vessel, investigating plastic and microplastic accumulations in the great atlantic eddy, literally in the middle of the northern Atlantic. Normal life, I´m a seaman. Therefore I can´t check the literature before december, when I´ll be back home.
I will, if work allows, check the kit market in the next days and will see if I find something special for you...
All the best
Mattes
no oil rig thing... oil rigs are near the coast, for reasons. I´m on a research vessel, investigating plastic and microplastic accumulations in the great atlantic eddy, literally in the middle of the northern Atlantic. Normal life, I´m a seaman. Therefore I can´t check the literature before december, when I´ll be back home.
I will, if work allows, check the kit market in the next days and will see if I find something special for you...
All the best
Mattes
Hi Katrine again,
for a budget of 400 € max without wood, have a look at those: Dschinn Mini TL and Lautsprecher Shop | Hobby Hifi Dschinn-Mini-TL Bausatz | Lautsprecher Selbstbau.
Just a thought...
All the best
Mattes
for a budget of 400 € max without wood, have a look at those: Dschinn Mini TL and Lautsprecher Shop | Hobby Hifi Dschinn-Mini-TL Bausatz | Lautsprecher Selbstbau.
Just a thought...
All the best
Mattes
Head spin!
My DALI's are 8 ohm speakers, is that part of the reason I feel they sound better when played louder? - almost like there is more detail when it gets a bit of oompf.
Crazy thought! Could one have a table standing mini/midi-esque tower? I do a lot of music listening in my office/playroom. The problem is I have 3 screens taking up a TON of space side to side.
Would something like this be remotely viable? - size not to scale but to get the general idea... black lines at the bottom is just to show the screens are angled. - bear with my quick mock-up 🙂
I know this is sort of off-topic of the original idea, but it just hit me that maybe it would be better than my current setup, both ergonomically (I want to move my screens further back) and speaker position (no position, basically). - I know this is still a big compromise compared to anything "good" setup-wise (worried about screens being in the way).. but could it work? Feel free to hack it down if it's a terrible idea.
Sorry starting to get all crazy - I guess my idea of what I would like to try is changing.
Mattes: You're very kind! And wow - I know about the plastic madness in the ocean, it's heartbreaking 🙁 but I never in a million years would have guessed that you were out there on a research vessel.
As you may have read my wall of text with descision making randomness, it could be fun to try full range speakers if they make sense where I sit.
- The small kit you linked looks interesting, I found some dimensions, they are indeed quite small, might be good, keep it simple-ish 🙂
Thank you guys again, I really appretiate the answers and effort. I apologize for being so indecisive. 😱
Cool, I had a look at it, even looks good 😉
Not entirely sure what that means, sorry 🙂 - I understand a cross-over is a compromise, but I don't know enough about these things. 😱 I'm not sure if I have an high or low output impedance amplifier. The pioneer A757 mk2 I use in my "office" has 2 speaker output sets, and they have a warning about where to hook up what ohm speakers. A takes 4-8ohm, B is 16-32 ohm. I've never seen higher than 8... 😕
My DALI's are 8 ohm speakers, is that part of the reason I feel they sound better when played louder? - almost like there is more detail when it gets a bit of oompf.
I checked Quali-fi, it's unfortunately in the "other end" of Denmark. Granted, Denmark is tiny, but we've got some steep bridge fees. 🙄 trip there would be almost as much as a driver (easily 80 euro both ways + gas)
I really would like to try this style of stuff, but possibly more of a curiosity project until I have a better clue 🙂
Crazy thought! Could one have a table standing mini/midi-esque tower? I do a lot of music listening in my office/playroom. The problem is I have 3 screens taking up a TON of space side to side.
Would something like this be remotely viable? - size not to scale but to get the general idea... black lines at the bottom is just to show the screens are angled. - bear with my quick mock-up 🙂
I know this is sort of off-topic of the original idea, but it just hit me that maybe it would be better than my current setup, both ergonomically (I want to move my screens further back) and speaker position (no position, basically). - I know this is still a big compromise compared to anything "good" setup-wise (worried about screens being in the way).. but could it work? Feel free to hack it down if it's a terrible idea.
Sorry starting to get all crazy - I guess my idea of what I would like to try is changing.
Mattes: You're very kind! And wow - I know about the plastic madness in the ocean, it's heartbreaking 🙁 but I never in a million years would have guessed that you were out there on a research vessel.
As you may have read my wall of text with descision making randomness, it could be fun to try full range speakers if they make sense where I sit.
- The small kit you linked looks interesting, I found some dimensions, they are indeed quite small, might be good, keep it simple-ish 🙂
Thank you guys again, I really appretiate the answers and effort. I apologize for being so indecisive. 😱
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You could build these for $200 if you like. Cheap drivers and a very simple, low cost, low parts count crossover. Can't get much slimmer than this. The woofer works well in small sealed to medium-size ported enclosures like this one. Listening axis is slightly above tweeter and box is kept short for this purpose.
Woofer: Peerless 830657
Tweeter: Peerless/Vifa XT25SC90-04
Box is 164mm wide from edge to edge.
In a ported box there is a power limitation due to limited excursion, if you have a sub and can get some stands a smallish sealed box will work great as well. It has just 1.5dB of baffle step compensation, and is kept literally 2 inches from the wall. Works fine if you listen close up, at a greater distance it needs a little more space to the back (and a slightly different crossover).
Woofer: Peerless 830657
Tweeter: Peerless/Vifa XT25SC90-04
Box is 164mm wide from edge to edge.
In a ported box there is a power limitation due to limited excursion, if you have a sub and can get some stands a smallish sealed box will work great as well. It has just 1.5dB of baffle step compensation, and is kept literally 2 inches from the wall. Works fine if you listen close up, at a greater distance it needs a little more space to the back (and a slightly different crossover).
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sangram: looks interesting 🙂 definately a cheap way to get into building.
Where would I find some sort of build plan / cross over diagram?
Where would I find some sort of build plan / cross over diagram?
My apologies - the width is 200mm, not 164.
You can find a crossover and the build plan attached. Crossover isn't fantastic because the drivers are a little difficult to work with, but the sound is well-balanced.
You really need to watch the power in this box - the driver will hit its excursion limit with as little as 2 watts. For listening real close (like a couple feet away) this is not an issue.
If you need to sit a little further away you will want a bookshelf enclosure (sealed) and cross over to a sub. The driver used has a good amount of overload capability and I could not hear it in distress for even loud levels from a 4-5 feet away. But YMMV, all rooms and all people are different. Also, the crossover here isn't suitable for a small box or for listening at a distance.
The one mistake that I worked out after the build is that the port hole is 75mm diameter, but the tuning calls for a 75mm port. Tubes for a 75mm port require a 78-85mm diameter cutout. 8.5 inch depth may also be tough to fit into the depth of the box so you would need an elbow or make the port downfiring. You can downsize the port to 50mm and then you only need a 84mm deep port, which is what I ended up doing.
Similarly, the cutout for the terminal cup at the back would depend on what you are using.
You can find a crossover and the build plan attached. Crossover isn't fantastic because the drivers are a little difficult to work with, but the sound is well-balanced.
You really need to watch the power in this box - the driver will hit its excursion limit with as little as 2 watts. For listening real close (like a couple feet away) this is not an issue.
If you need to sit a little further away you will want a bookshelf enclosure (sealed) and cross over to a sub. The driver used has a good amount of overload capability and I could not hear it in distress for even loud levels from a 4-5 feet away. But YMMV, all rooms and all people are different. Also, the crossover here isn't suitable for a small box or for listening at a distance.
The one mistake that I worked out after the build is that the port hole is 75mm diameter, but the tuning calls for a 75mm port. Tubes for a 75mm port require a 78-85mm diameter cutout. 8.5 inch depth may also be tough to fit into the depth of the box so you would need an elbow or make the port downfiring. You can downsize the port to 50mm and then you only need a 84mm deep port, which is what I ended up doing.
Similarly, the cutout for the terminal cup at the back would depend on what you are using.
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Thank you for the description 🙂 - your thing sounds like I would need to know a lot more about tuning a speaker, but I really appretiate you taking the time!
I think the kit Mattes linked to is more my speed, just because a lot of the guesswork is already done, and it's slimmer. - Which helps at the tv position.
Maybe something like these:
H04.1 - TipTricks Detail
There are some Vifa side woofer designs but I can't find now.
I mean a side woofer design. I made one and besides the fact that the filter is more expensive I am satisfied with the result.
Here are a photo with my speaker: speakers comparison
H04.1 - TipTricks Detail
There are some Vifa side woofer designs but I can't find now.
I mean a side woofer design. I made one and besides the fact that the filter is more expensive I am satisfied with the result.
Here are a photo with my speaker: speakers comparison
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You asked earlier if changing the baffle would be okay. If you change the baffle arrangements or dimensions is where xover adjustments will likely be required. This goes for all designs.
The xover is matched to the exact drivers, their placement, and the baffle's shape and size.
Later,
Wolf
The xover is matched to the exact drivers, their placement, and the baffle's shape and size.
Later,
Wolf
I have found side firing woofers can work really well. But i will noe not use just 1. 2 woofers the next size down loaded push-push offer many advantages over a single woofer.
dave
Jinxid,
Has your education & research advanced to where you can decide between a <$200/speaker 21cm baffle 2-way ported midbass design, and a <$300/speaker 21cm baffle 3-way design with a sealed midrange and ported side woofer?
-OR- do you favor another design path?
Has your education & research advanced to where you can decide between a <$200/speaker 21cm baffle 2-way ported midbass design, and a <$300/speaker 21cm baffle 3-way design with a sealed midrange and ported side woofer?
-OR- do you favor another design path?