Yes Mark, I misused the term 'back emf' and am currently wearing sackcloth and ashes! 🙂
Attachments
There have been some really nasty comments made against me. Comments such as you need to read more and not spend time on forums. Use a spray can for color.
First I don't spend time on forums because of trolls like on this post
Second. Color refers to the sound that a particular component brings to the mix. It is not bad design. Otherwise all amplifiers would sound the same. Would you say that a person who likes a 6sn7 tube because of its richness is a bad design since the 12AT7 is lean. So take your spray can and ..... it
You say I need to read more. Here are some readings for you.
Start with Morgan Jones. He talks in depth about why thin film over thick film resistors. Why metal over carbon. There are plenty of people that like the sound of a carbon resistor in their amplifier. Do I say they are stupid. No that is their choice. Do I say that because someone is uneducated and a poor designer because they like a Alps Blue Velvet pot sound compared to individual resistors, relay or 24 positions switch. No. This is their color and they are free to choose.
Then read some white papers by Panasonic and Vishay as they talk about why to use this resistors or that for a given sound.
Or why is that a Output transformers from Sowter sound different the Edcor. Oh I forgot you cant afford custom Sowter transformers.
As to speed. There is a clear lack of understanding on your part here. Morgan Jones and all guitarist know bout the speed of a cap. Perhaps you will understand the word slew rate. Which is the time it takes to change a given voltage. Or is that too big of word for you! When overloaded a smaller cap recovers more quickly as it can charge and discharge more quickly.
So read some more Morgan Jones and some TI white papers on building a switching powers supply. Perhaps you will learn something.
And the comment about 100uf caps getting hot is a switching power supply. Really!! This shows your ignorance and that you have never built one. The cap does not get hot. If they did then you could not use them for channel separation by placing them on the power supply lines between the the left and right channel. Furthermore the switching power supply manufacturers would not recommend the amount of capacitance that they do. Here is a data sheet. Do some reading yourself. Notice the max capacitive load.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/468/RAC06-S_DC-958285.pdf
Or will you just ignore this link like you did the capacitors which clearly showed a 5mm difference length. And when your client want a given box size then getting a bigger box is not an option. Comments like this show a lack of understanding of the requirements.
So before you presume yourself to be so much better than someone else, stop and think before you open your fat mouth.
Speed and color are not bad words in the music industry and well understood. Perhaps you all should crawl out from under your rocks and broaden your minds.
Trolls
First I don't spend time on forums because of trolls like on this post
Second. Color refers to the sound that a particular component brings to the mix. It is not bad design. Otherwise all amplifiers would sound the same. Would you say that a person who likes a 6sn7 tube because of its richness is a bad design since the 12AT7 is lean. So take your spray can and ..... it
You say I need to read more. Here are some readings for you.
Start with Morgan Jones. He talks in depth about why thin film over thick film resistors. Why metal over carbon. There are plenty of people that like the sound of a carbon resistor in their amplifier. Do I say they are stupid. No that is their choice. Do I say that because someone is uneducated and a poor designer because they like a Alps Blue Velvet pot sound compared to individual resistors, relay or 24 positions switch. No. This is their color and they are free to choose.
Then read some white papers by Panasonic and Vishay as they talk about why to use this resistors or that for a given sound.
Or why is that a Output transformers from Sowter sound different the Edcor. Oh I forgot you cant afford custom Sowter transformers.
As to speed. There is a clear lack of understanding on your part here. Morgan Jones and all guitarist know bout the speed of a cap. Perhaps you will understand the word slew rate. Which is the time it takes to change a given voltage. Or is that too big of word for you! When overloaded a smaller cap recovers more quickly as it can charge and discharge more quickly.
So read some more Morgan Jones and some TI white papers on building a switching powers supply. Perhaps you will learn something.
And the comment about 100uf caps getting hot is a switching power supply. Really!! This shows your ignorance and that you have never built one. The cap does not get hot. If they did then you could not use them for channel separation by placing them on the power supply lines between the the left and right channel. Furthermore the switching power supply manufacturers would not recommend the amount of capacitance that they do. Here is a data sheet. Do some reading yourself. Notice the max capacitive load.
https://www.mouser.com/datasheet/2/468/RAC06-S_DC-958285.pdf
Or will you just ignore this link like you did the capacitors which clearly showed a 5mm difference length. And when your client want a given box size then getting a bigger box is not an option. Comments like this show a lack of understanding of the requirements.
So before you presume yourself to be so much better than someone else, stop and think before you open your fat mouth.
Speed and color are not bad words in the music industry and well understood. Perhaps you all should crawl out from under your rocks and broaden your minds.
Trolls
"When you are in a hole, stop digging"
And how it "recovers".
Sadly you drop casual tech words here and there in your conversation, with no clue about their meaning.
Maybe you can impress very simple souls with them, but that will certainly backfire against you here.
Please explain how a series cap (a coupling cap) changes slew rate, I am all ears.
Please explain how a cap, any size, "overloads".
And how it "recovers".
Sadly you drop casual tech words here and there in your conversation, with no clue about their meaning.
Maybe you can impress very simple souls with them, but that will certainly backfire against you here.
Hi AJ, how about I throw in some gentler, more growth-focussed comments.
Perhaps it may feel personal, but the comments have generally been directed at the questionable technical basis of your claims.
There are a number of comments that are pointed. I suspect the posters are a little incredulous - we don't often see a complete re-write of electronic theory put forward seriously in these forums.
If you are talking about instrumentation, then I partially agree. For reproduction, not so much.
Within the limits of reasonable performance, they do. Again, I refer to reproduction here, not instruments like guitar amps.
aaaaah, yes since the two types are completely different electrically. Perhaps you meant the 12AU7?
Do they? Can you provide a link or reference to this as I would be interested to understand what they are discussing.
Now you are just being silly. There are very good technical reasons why transformers might behave differently eg the interleafing design, core material etc. all affect the response, inter-winding capacitance etc.
So, not speed per-se but overload recovery. The issue with this may well be your choice of subjective terminology for objective issues which has led to misunderstanding.
It is difficult to win people over to your position when you constantly insult them while claiming injured feelings from their comments. Sticking to the facts and issues might be more helpful
Speed and colour may well be acceptable terms in the subjective world of music production industry. Here in the fact-based objective world of music reproduction, they are viewed as handwaving. Perhaps this unpleasantness could have been avoided if you had posted in the Instrumentation forums instead of here.
Good luck with your continuing experimentation and enjoyment of your findings.
Perhaps it may feel personal, but the comments have generally been directed at the questionable technical basis of your claims.
There are a number of comments that are pointed. I suspect the posters are a little incredulous - we don't often see a complete re-write of electronic theory put forward seriously in these forums.
If you are talking about instrumentation, then I partially agree. For reproduction, not so much.
Within the limits of reasonable performance, they do. Again, I refer to reproduction here, not instruments like guitar amps.
aaaaah, yes since the two types are completely different electrically. Perhaps you meant the 12AU7?
Do they? Can you provide a link or reference to this as I would be interested to understand what they are discussing.
Now you are just being silly. There are very good technical reasons why transformers might behave differently eg the interleafing design, core material etc. all affect the response, inter-winding capacitance etc.
So, not speed per-se but overload recovery. The issue with this may well be your choice of subjective terminology for objective issues which has led to misunderstanding.
It is difficult to win people over to your position when you constantly insult them while claiming injured feelings from their comments. Sticking to the facts and issues might be more helpful
Speed and colour may well be acceptable terms in the subjective world of music production industry. Here in the fact-based objective world of music reproduction, they are viewed as handwaving. Perhaps this unpleasantness could have been avoided if you had posted in the Instrumentation forums instead of here.
Good luck with your continuing experimentation and enjoyment of your findings.
Sometimes on this forum someone will pop up with their own version of electronics but when they are corrected they will learn from our comments and hopefully in the future will be less keen to broadcast their remaining confusion. Sadly, such people are rare; more common is the reaction seen thus far in this thread: restatement of error, bluster, insults, complaints about supposed insults received. Just compare the responses of Galu and Ajcrock: both made technical errors in their posts and were corrected; one goes away to do some learning and the other still tries to insult us and teach us.
The issue is not "better" but facts about audio electronics. You have no idea what shape my mouth is, and I don't see the relevance of facial shape to this discussion anyway.Ajcrock said:
@ DF96, your statements about being corrected are spot on. My grandmother tried to teach me "Every challenge is an opportunity to improve."
May we remind the members of the need to keep all conversations civil regardless of the strength of your convictions in these matters.
In fairness to DF96, who can be forgiven for not being fully conversant with your understanding of physics, perhaps he thought that the reactance of a capacitor is given by the equation Xc = 1/(2 × π × f × C). Continuing down this path, he concluded that a 100uF capacitor would behave like a piece of wire at 100kHz (and a rather short piece at that).
But these are the sorts of mistakes we all make.
As a past moderator on another smaller hi-fi forum, I fear I recognise some similarity between these posts and that of another fellow there who tried to offer alternative electronic principles to whoever chose to read.
Mr Ajcrock,
Pardon if I am wrong, but you exhibit enough knowledge of the basics of electronics to just not being able to mask your posts as an attempt to ridicule/be smart-***.
If so, sorry Sir, you do not pull it off. As often with such efforts, you overdid it just enough to 'unmask' your attempts at being 'different'. Perhaps you should read some of the Agatha Christie books on how to effectively conceal ulterior purposes.
Mr Ajcrock,
Pardon if I am wrong, but you exhibit enough knowledge of the basics of electronics to just not being able to mask your posts as an attempt to ridicule/be smart-***.
If so, sorry Sir, you do not pull it off. As often with such efforts, you overdid it just enough to 'unmask' your attempts at being 'different'. Perhaps you should read some of the Agatha Christie books on how to effectively conceal ulterior purposes.
Last edited:
The original claim appeared in post 8
As has been suggested, on this and other forums, it can sometimes be hard to tell whether someone is ignorant (and thus, potentially, teachable) or just being difficult for reasons which are unclear.
It is true that I am not fully conversant with Ajcrock's version of physics.
It appeared to be an attempt to back up the nonsense about "speed" of capacitors. In reality it is likely that most 100uF caps have sufficiently low impedance at 100kHz that they could still act as part of a low pass filter, although in many cases a smaller cap would be sufficient. I suggested that heating could be a problem - that is why caps for SMPS duty are often designed to have low losses. This was dismissed - maybe he doesn't understand ESR? People need to be clear: by the standards of normal electronics, analogue audio equipment is very low frequency stuff.Ajcrock said:
As has been suggested, on this and other forums, it can sometimes be hard to tell whether someone is ignorant (and thus, potentially, teachable) or just being difficult for reasons which are unclear.
It is true that I am not fully conversant with Ajcrock's version of physics.
capacitors by itself have no speed....period...
show me the mathematical derivations of "capacitor speed" if you care...
show me the mathematical derivations of "capacitor speed" if you care...
When using electrolytic coupling caps can they all be replaced with an equivalent bi-polar electrolytic?
replace them with film caps instead, that is what i do...film caps have shrunk in size nowadays than say 20 years ago..
Dare I mention these capacitor "data sheets" / "app notes" ?
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/271630-10000uf-100v-capacitors.html#post5616199
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/271630-10000uf-100v-capacitors.html#post5616199