I used to think so too. Now I think one cannot really say unless there is a much lower distortion amplifier to substitute and the rest of the system is very low distortion. Besides, what we likely hear with music is IMD due to many frequencies present at once, not simple HD.
I don't understand your so definitive assertion. What is "reasonable ?
To compensate speakers or not ?
If, with high amortissement factor amps, the source impedance seems negligible, it is not so true when you add the speaker's cables resistance plus the passive network ones.
IRL, and even with quite short and big diameter cables, you can see an obvious acoustic response curve difference if the speakers were "linearized' VS if they were not. And a phase one too.
Not to forget that, if all your 8 Ohms speakers are compensated to present a 6 ohm linear one all over their frequency range, you do not have to mess any more with your Bruel and Kjaer and a lot of coils and capacitors to finely adjust the values of the components of your passive filters: you can do your calculations on a sheet of paper and place your orders, which is a big advantage for a DIYer. Remember that we use often crossover speaker's frequencies near speakers resonance ones where their impedance curves are pretty 'peaky'.
By experience, i can tell that most of the people that had tried such impedance compensation networks never go back. And, if you ask the naysayers, you will discover they had ... never tried.
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I thought it was clear we were talking the "Joe" way. I only say nay to the stories that go with it that make little or no sense or in the worst cases are simply wrong.
The air/soundfield is not linear and time invariant to anywhere near the degree that the electronics can be.
No argument, but somehow air doesn't annoy me like high order electronic distortion, or even enough low order IMD. In terms of sound field, I do critical listening near field and at low volume levels. Even with the high end system the other day with the Pass power amps and electrostatic speakers I got up out of my chair and walked up right in front of the speakers to take a closer listen. Didn't sound different that time, but it often does.
I've seen it all now, here it is 2019 and this stuff still flies (at least it still attracts flies). There is a reason cables are shaped like snakes I guess and it makes sense hosing customers with $46,000 cables that have a microscopic BOM, no components to QC, no failure modes, no parts to go obsolete. There is also some irony in calling it Zero Tech.
They probably don't even see the difference between zero and no in this context.
They probably don't even see the difference between zero and no in this context.
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Interesting - just had an email exchange with my son about a $595 ‘ultra’ USB cable from Audio Magic (he’s also a non- believer).
You can participate in any audio show and they’ll be insisting that without the ‘right cables’ it won’t sound right. I had one mains cable where the 3 pin IEC plug was embedded in a metal shroud nearly 80 mm in diameter - almost the height of the preamp at c 90 mm. The cable itself wasn’t anything less than about 20 or 25 mm. Ditto speaker cables. All costing hundreds of $ per meter.
I lent a system to one dealer with standard mains cables 2 meter in length. When I collected the stuff a few weeks later, no mains cables. He’d turfed them as he’d deemed they were ‘sh1t’.
Then they complain when you tell them an amp chock full of ‘tech’ and hundreds of parts costs $7k.
Nuts.
You can participate in any audio show and they’ll be insisting that without the ‘right cables’ it won’t sound right. I had one mains cable where the 3 pin IEC plug was embedded in a metal shroud nearly 80 mm in diameter - almost the height of the preamp at c 90 mm. The cable itself wasn’t anything less than about 20 or 25 mm. Ditto speaker cables. All costing hundreds of $ per meter.
I lent a system to one dealer with standard mains cables 2 meter in length. When I collected the stuff a few weeks later, no mains cables. He’d turfed them as he’d deemed they were ‘sh1t’.
Then they complain when you tell them an amp chock full of ‘tech’ and hundreds of parts costs $7k.
Nuts.
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The problem here is that this is the equivalent of saying, "my cables are super-luminal and have 0 propagation delay at any length" or "my cables are superconducting and have zero resistance at any temperature". Have these shows become so polite (blow smoke up each other's ****) that no one confronts such blatant BS?
Who would confront? When there is mutual agreement to ignore the work of Mr. Ohm and Mr. Maxwell then everyone is in a glass house. And they have all built the fragile houses together. The first to say its all a lie will be excommunicated. His customers will avoid him and his peers will ostracize him. The whole network supports itself.
I have been there and participated in in the cable wars. Won a "golden ear" many years ago. I think it was for the styling, not performance. However a large player who reaches out of the rarefied market to a mass market must be careful about claims or the lawsuits come fast and thick. Even when the claims are legitimate performance measurements.
I have been there and participated in in the cable wars. Won a "golden ear" many years ago. I think it was for the styling, not performance. However a large player who reaches out of the rarefied market to a mass market must be careful about claims or the lawsuits come fast and thick. Even when the claims are legitimate performance measurements.
Unfortunately, these guys make a lot of money selling lower cost cables ($50 to $200). Calling it out for what it is would probably hurt their business and make an equipment supplier very unpopular. I don’t think the >$5k sells all that well, but if someone’s buying a 100 k system, then they get encouraged to spend on cables. Monster Cables had/have a sales technique: get the customer to say how much they want to spend on a complete system. Tell them to put aside 10% of what they intend to spend. Let them choose their gear. Just before they sign on the dotted line, the sales guy says, ‘now remember that 10 % I asked you to put aside . . . ‘
So, you learn to bite your lip and say ‘yes, decent cables can help a system perform better’ without specifically specifying what an ‘engineers’ version of decent is: it conducts sufficient current for the job which equates to a $10 13 A mains cable and 5mm diameter stranded copper core wire for speakers at probsbly $10 to $20 per meter
So, you learn to bite your lip and say ‘yes, decent cables can help a system perform better’ without specifically specifying what an ‘engineers’ version of decent is: it conducts sufficient current for the job which equates to a $10 13 A mains cable and 5mm diameter stranded copper core wire for speakers at probsbly $10 to $20 per meter
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Nothing new here, we had to rebuild the front porches on our two family house and asked a contractor to write a proposal. He asked how much we had in the bank and to humor him I said $55,100. He came back with a 10 or 12 page bid that accounted for every screw (pun intended) that came to $55,050. I DIY'ed it for $11,000.
Regarding irrational thinking about cables, not clear how the supply and demand equation arises. I suspect there are people that go looking for fancy cables and won't buy unless they find what they think they want. Around the margins no doubt some innocent people get taken too, but I would hesitate to blame it all on the sellers. As has been noted, one simply cannot get some people to accept proper engineering wisdom about cables, they don't want to hear it.
We're talking out right lies here no wiggle room. The regulatory commissions are almost exclusively interested in public safety or health issues, every golf pro shop has copper bracelets, etc. and so it goes.
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