Alpair 7.3eN/12pw WAW build

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#41
Zia - I think whatever amps are nearby that have input impedance suitable for the PLLXO?
Next up on Dave’s wish list would likely either the DIY kit version of FirstWatt B4, or minidsp digital approach to eliminate that issue- my money’s on the former, but I’m not holding my breath.
 
#42
Re the A12PW vis a vis Silver Flutes - so far I've only done the one build with the former, and IIRC the only one with the latter which I've had much opportunity to listen is the Tysen V2 with FF85wk shown above. No doubt the side firing configuration used there further complicates the question of directly comparing them, but I suspect that the Alpairs would have an advantage. That said, the SF's have a substantial price advantage not to be overlooked, and in a system also including bona fide sub woofer(s), I'd be inclined to say - "no brainer".


Dave mentioned 4 per side - the last time we did that was with the much smaller Peerless 4" baby mid-bass. While they needed a larger and more elaborate enclsoure, it was definitely a huge surprise how much more energy 4 of those little guys per side delivered as compared to just 2. Dave can provide photos of those builds.
 
#43
The A12pw go down to about 25 Hz F10 (in Woden TL), the SF 35 Hz.

We have also used a single A12pw in a MiniOnken, which gets to something just over 30 Hz, the SF in a very small miniOnken — an MTM with FF85wKeN — something like 45 Hz.

FF85-W14-laidLoose.jpg


dave
 
#45
Tysen v2 has the drivers pilfered out of that MTM, and the extra bass extension from the ML-TL certainly brings benefits. And no stand needed.

But if you have space constraints… if put into a rectangular miniOnken it would be even more compact, shallower, not much latitude for shortening or reducing the width of the baffle.

dave
 
#47
I finally finished them!

There are few benefits to working for the federal government during these strange days, but a recent one is a prodigious amount of free time. Among a host of home improvement projects, I was able to steal some time for veneering.

4 days, to be exact.

This was my first veneering project, and these were probably not the best/easiest project to learn on. It took about twice as long as I expected, but I got em done.

Many thanks to Chris B.. I never would have been able to pull it off without his expert advice.

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
 

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#49
Quattrofish said:
I finally finished them!
Click to expand...

Congratulations, the finished speakers look really good! Doesn't look like a beginner project at all. 🙂

Would you mind sharing a few more details about the set up you are using and some listening impressions? How many hours do you have on the drivers?

Quattrofish said:
Many thanks to Chris B.. I never would have been able to pull it off without his expert advice.
Click to expand...

+1, Chris's advice regarding woodworking and veneering has helped me a lot too. Thank you Chris, your helping out beginners like us is much appreciated. 🙂
 
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#51
chrisb said:
whatever amps are nearby that have input impedance suitable for the PLLXO?
Click to expand...

It is really only the 2nd order where one needs a HF amplifier with high input impedance.

Next up on Dave’s wish list would likely either the DIY kit version of FirstWatt B4, or minidsp digital
Click to expand...

B4. MiniDSP needs to reach 24/192 1st. And long term, a fairly simple analog filter before the amps, a speaker specifically designed for that (like this one), and a convolution filter on the Mac that provides minor amplitude and phase corrections.

dave
 
#52
zman01 said:
Congratulations, the finished speakers look really good! Doesn't look like a beginner project at all. 🙂

Would you mind sharing a few more details about the set up you are using and some listening impressions? How many hours do you have on the drivers?

+1, Chris's advice regarding woodworking and veneering has helped me a lot too. Thank you Chris, your helping out beginners like us is much appreciated. 🙂
Click to expand...

Thanks, Zman.

My setup is as follows:
Sources: Project Debut Carbon with Shure cartridge (can't remember the model at the moment) through a Bellari phono stage.
Lampizator Amber 2 DAC

Pre Amp: AES AE3 upgraded throughout with Auricaps. Sylvania ChromeDome 6SN7s

Power Amps: Bottlehead Stereomour SET with Mullard and JJ tubes (driving the 7.3), Crown XRS1500 (driving the 12pw)

Crossovers are passive line level, using whatever caps and resistors Mouser sent that fit the specs. I used Duelund 16g tinned copper wire, just because.

Speaker cable: twisted pairs extricated from CAT6. Thin and solid, as directed by Dave. Haven't tried anything else, but is sure sounds good. Soldered directly to the driver with no binding posts used.

The sound is sublime. Revealing, but never harsh or shouty like some of my other full-rangers were. VERY fast and detailed yet super smooth. Bass is prodigious and, again, fast. Punchy is a term my guests use frequently. The realism and soundstage are downright freaky.

There are undoubtedly many speakers that do some things better, but in my (small) room, at my normal listening levels, these are truly fantastic. I cast a very wide musical net. From Jamiroquai to Jason Isbell, Metallica to Bach, they'll do it all (within reason). They won't necessarily blow your hair back with crazy SPLs (though I give up before they do) and poor recordings are revealed for what they are. But feed them something truly well recorded and, in my semi-near field situation, they blow my mind.

Highly recommended.
 
#53
Quattrofish,

That's a nice setup you have and the beautiful speakers are a worthy addition. And thank you for sharing the listening impressions. It is good to know that you are finding the system very enjoyable and as they say, enjoy the music! 🙂
 
#54
12pw segment with vent instead of port?

Hi Folks,

...getting ready to build the Markaudio A12pw + A7p 2-way and it looks like a great plan.

I was wondering if there is a variation of the plan that substitutes the port on the 12pw bottom segment of the cabinet with a vent instead?

I seem to have seen it before, but maybe I'm just imagining.....

Thanks,
Mario
 
#56
Hi Zman,

I have both and will open-mindedly try first the 7p....but I do love the A7.3m and have a pair in pensils...so I may cannibalize that build!

I think I posted my earlier question in the wrong thread....should have been posted here:

Alpair 7P & Alpair 12PW combination.

And I see that indeed a vented version was posted by Dave but that applied to the double 12pw+ one 7p version.

...still hoping to find the "simple two-way" but with a vent substituting for the tube port.

Thanks,
Mario
 
#57
Mario,

I just use the Port Size Change document, using ∏r2 on one side and h x w on the other. I usually make the vent full width and then play with height and length until i get something i like. I don’t like going longer than max allowed by the depth of the box. This TL goes low (25ish F10 in our tall Woden ML-TL) so you don’t want too have a terminus with too little height. Vent spacers can be used to convieniently reduce the terminus width and double as vent shelf bracing. Probably worth planning for a vent spacer just for the last benefit.

Doing this this way violates a few rules-of-thumb but has proven to work wel across at least a dozen ML-TLs and hundreds of vented designs with very good results.

dave
 
#58
The A7p is good if you can live with its HF perturbations. Long break-in and treatment helped tame them, but we don’t think they do as well as the A7.3 (A7.3en/A7 MAOP).

We started with A7p > A7PeN > A7 MAOP > silver A7.3eN in our MTM.

Which cabinet are you building? Vented or MLTL?

dave
 
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