Magazines have always included cookbook projects. Nothing wrong with that. However, those same magazines (or at least the better ones) had quite detailed tutorial articles too; modern magazines are more likely to only offer dumbed-down versions of tutorials.VictoriaGuy said:
When HTML was invented it was always assumed that the rendering of a web page would be adjusted by the browser to suit the device in use. That worked because HTML was always meant to be a way of structuring information, not a way of presenting information. Sadly, the WYSIWYG brigade started abusing HTML and using it as a page description language; web authoring tools encouraged this. Then lots of browsers with poor standards-compliance appeared and it became the job of web authors to cope with all their peculiarities. Now people expect different versions of a website for different devices, which is quite contrary to the original aims of HTML.traderbam said:
Worse than that, a lot of sites are now designed* on the assumption that only phones are used, lots of whitespace and big fonts etc to make taps easy... So on a pc or laptop they are horrible. Like Google's so-called "modern design" initiative. Ghastly.
*"designed" by idiots who never have to deal with low data rate or flaky internet connections, and never actually try to use their sites...
*"designed" by idiots who never have to deal with low data rate or flaky internet connections, and never actually try to use their sites...
Perhaps that belief explains the low proportion of (financial) 'donors' in the membership?
We must be careful not to suggest to new and prospective members that their proposed threads may be of insufficient quality to warrant inclusion in this site.
Some may think twice about contributing and threads of potential quality may be stillborn.
As to what constitutes quality - like beauty, it is in the eye of the beholder!
Over the years I feel I have given a lot of time and know-how to DIYaudio, and have received much in return, but I have never donated cash. I have donated cash to Wikipedia as I hold it in high regard as a non-profit, non-attribution (if you get my meaning) public service which is highly educational and easy to use. I haven’t given much time to writing Wikipedia articles so I am by far a net consumer of it.
To my mind, contributions of time and knowledge shared are more valuable than cash.
For those of us who are 'net recipients' here, cash can be a (poor) substitute.
Needless to say, not required at all, and not possible for some.
I personally wouldn't mind seeing a little better organization of existing projects. In particular, when I was working on my first project, I wasn't looking for a kit, but I was looking for a known and proven design. Finding many of the design threads is a challenge, but finding a schematic within those threads is even harder. And some of those threads are getting awfully long to read all the way through, especially for a beginner who's still trying to understand some of the relatively basic concepts like triode connection vs. pentode connection, etc.
I think what might be very beneficial is to have, at least within certain subforums (Tubes, Solid State, Loudspeakers, etc) a list of "go-to" projects, their schematics, and their design threads. Many beginners spend a considerable time searching beforehand, but there are many, many useful threads with very unhelpful thread titles. (I am guilty of creating more than one of these really poorly titled threads).
The big challenge faced with this forum is the same one that is faced by Amateur Radio, Sailing clubs, Hobby Machinists, Woodworking, and a bunch of other hobbies: Attracting the "young blood" so to speak. I'm 18, and I can tell you that I know very, very few people between the ages of 18-30 who have any interest in these hobbies. Many of them are turned away by the "old person hobby" stigma (This forum could use some help in that regard).
Audio has a real challenge, which is the stigma surrounding the word "audiophile". I used to hang around gaming and PC building communities. They are a thousand times more toxic than audiophile communities. The most amusing (and frustrating) thing is that most of the toxic comments don't come from the audiophiles, they come from the people who think audio is a "ridiculous hobby". But still, I'd say 50% of the people who hear that I'm into high-fidelity audio think I'm a crazy nut who would buy $10,000 speaker cables.
My point is, for every argument I've seen between people about speaker cables or other "snake oil", I've seen at least five arguments from people outside the hobby who think that "audiophile" translates to $20,000 speakers. These are also the people who tend to think that tube amplifiers "introduce massive distortion", yet I'd hazard a guess that if I had them compare a Citation II or any other decent push-pull tube amp with a MC^2 MC650, using reasonable speakers, they would hardly notice a difference.
The best example are the people who will say that "there is no way you can hear the difference between two amplifiers!", and "Audio is all a bunch of idiots who buy expensive cables!", yet they insist that the ABEC 9 rated bearings they put in their skateboard wheels are "a dramatic improvement" over the ABEC 7 rated bearings they replaced.
If I remember correctly, the Monarch 10EE (arguably one of the best toolroom lathes ever built.. and they used tubes in the motor drive!) used either an ABEC 5 or ABEC 7 rated angular contact bearing for the spindle. Surface grinders and toolpost grinders are somewhere around ABEC 9, though many use bronze bushings instead (can result in a better surface finish). I haven no idea what precision rating the bearings are in the spindle of my Grizzly lathe, but they are certainly not anything special. I believe the number is 7212 (maybe it's 7213, I don't remember), but I'd be shocked if it was even an ABEC 5 rating, and they're definitely not made by SKF or anyone reputable. But the spindle on that machine feels perfectly acceptable and can hold good tolerances.
But no, skateboard wheels definitely need the best bearings available. But hey, what do I know. I don't own a skateboard, nor do I have any desire to own one.
Am I the only one who feels like the audio community has a reputation for being worse than it is? Also, if anyone actually read through all that, you've got a lot more patience than I do.
As for the quality of the threads themselves, I'd definitely like to see more new threads, I feel like a large percentage of the activity is on threads started at least 10 years ago, and it's very hard to keep up with all that, at least if you're relatively new to the hobby like I am.
I think what might be very beneficial is to have, at least within certain subforums (Tubes, Solid State, Loudspeakers, etc) a list of "go-to" projects, their schematics, and their design threads. Many beginners spend a considerable time searching beforehand, but there are many, many useful threads with very unhelpful thread titles. (I am guilty of creating more than one of these really poorly titled threads).
The big challenge faced with this forum is the same one that is faced by Amateur Radio, Sailing clubs, Hobby Machinists, Woodworking, and a bunch of other hobbies: Attracting the "young blood" so to speak. I'm 18, and I can tell you that I know very, very few people between the ages of 18-30 who have any interest in these hobbies. Many of them are turned away by the "old person hobby" stigma (This forum could use some help in that regard).
Audio has a real challenge, which is the stigma surrounding the word "audiophile". I used to hang around gaming and PC building communities. They are a thousand times more toxic than audiophile communities. The most amusing (and frustrating) thing is that most of the toxic comments don't come from the audiophiles, they come from the people who think audio is a "ridiculous hobby". But still, I'd say 50% of the people who hear that I'm into high-fidelity audio think I'm a crazy nut who would buy $10,000 speaker cables.
My point is, for every argument I've seen between people about speaker cables or other "snake oil", I've seen at least five arguments from people outside the hobby who think that "audiophile" translates to $20,000 speakers. These are also the people who tend to think that tube amplifiers "introduce massive distortion", yet I'd hazard a guess that if I had them compare a Citation II or any other decent push-pull tube amp with a MC^2 MC650, using reasonable speakers, they would hardly notice a difference.
The best example are the people who will say that "there is no way you can hear the difference between two amplifiers!", and "Audio is all a bunch of idiots who buy expensive cables!", yet they insist that the ABEC 9 rated bearings they put in their skateboard wheels are "a dramatic improvement" over the ABEC 7 rated bearings they replaced.
If I remember correctly, the Monarch 10EE (arguably one of the best toolroom lathes ever built.. and they used tubes in the motor drive!) used either an ABEC 5 or ABEC 7 rated angular contact bearing for the spindle. Surface grinders and toolpost grinders are somewhere around ABEC 9, though many use bronze bushings instead (can result in a better surface finish). I haven no idea what precision rating the bearings are in the spindle of my Grizzly lathe, but they are certainly not anything special. I believe the number is 7212 (maybe it's 7213, I don't remember), but I'd be shocked if it was even an ABEC 5 rating, and they're definitely not made by SKF or anyone reputable. But the spindle on that machine feels perfectly acceptable and can hold good tolerances.
But no, skateboard wheels definitely need the best bearings available. But hey, what do I know. I don't own a skateboard, nor do I have any desire to own one.
Am I the only one who feels like the audio community has a reputation for being worse than it is? Also, if anyone actually read through all that, you've got a lot more patience than I do.
As for the quality of the threads themselves, I'd definitely like to see more new threads, I feel like a large percentage of the activity is on threads started at least 10 years ago, and it's very hard to keep up with all that, at least if you're relatively new to the hobby like I am.
Excellent comments, 'H713'...
As you say, it's a common problem in most clubs: greying membership. My sea kayaking club discusses the same issue frequently.
Certainly it would be good to have a group of 'standard starter projects' in threads that didn't have thousands of posts.
One difficulty may be in getting any agreement on what those projects should be (outside of the Pass forum).
Some projects (which are often built, as far as I can see) will receive a deluge of critical (negative) comments if they are even mentioned; other oft-recommended projects may not be very impressive to the average listener, and discourage further builds.
Also helpful would be a separation of projects between PCB-based and Point-to-Point wired projects, for tube builds.
Agreed, especially on the PCB vs. Point-to-point, the latter being many times harder than it looks.
Perhaps for things like the tube forum the thing to do would be to create a poll for what should be the "suggested" first build for various categories. Say, 6BQ5 push-pull, 6L6 (or EL34) push pull, and a KT88 push-pull. I'll let someone else come up with the categories for SE amps, because I've never looked at them too seriously (none of my speakers are all that efficient).
One of the things that I personally would use (regularly) is if the forum had a compilation of the schematics from all the big design threads. When I go to design something, I like to look at how other people approached the problem as well, but it can be a real pain to find the latest schematic for some of the 2000+ post long design threads.
Perhaps for things like the tube forum the thing to do would be to create a poll for what should be the "suggested" first build for various categories. Say, 6BQ5 push-pull, 6L6 (or EL34) push pull, and a KT88 push-pull. I'll let someone else come up with the categories for SE amps, because I've never looked at them too seriously (none of my speakers are all that efficient).
One of the things that I personally would use (regularly) is if the forum had a compilation of the schematics from all the big design threads. When I go to design something, I like to look at how other people approached the problem as well, but it can be a real pain to find the latest schematic for some of the 2000+ post long design threads.
Every hobby has idiots. Every hobby has people with more money than sense. Both types tend to draw attention to themselves, so they provide useful ammunition to fire for those whose interests lie elsewhere.
I suspect a poll for first build would not provide a useful answer. People differ in their ability, requirements and price range; not to mention their sometimes unrealistic aspirations! Compilations or other organisation of project details require effort to prepare and maintain; this is primarily a discussion forum, not a magazine or wiki.
I suspect a poll for first build would not provide a useful answer. People differ in their ability, requirements and price range; not to mention their sometimes unrealistic aspirations! Compilations or other organisation of project details require effort to prepare and maintain; this is primarily a discussion forum, not a magazine or wiki.
I was thinking along the same lines.
But how about a poll in each category (SS, Tube, Chip etc) for what people would like to see offered as a 'project guide' for beginner, intermediate and advanced levels.
True, but we can't complain that newbies keep making a 'what project?' thread if nobody is willing to make a bit of effort and help out.
We can't complain that people are becoming less willing to join and get involved, if no one is willing to make the hobby more accessible.
When I started in electronics many years ago I didn't ask other people which projects I should build. I bought magazines and made my own decisions. The problem these days is that some people seem to think that there is a 'best' project for them, which other people (who have never met them) can tell them.
I disagree with the requirement to make this or any other hobby 'more accessible'. Given the internet, information is much more accessible now than it was in the past. The problem is that people now want everything served up to them on a plate, as they had at school and university. If anything it is now too accessible, as people think they can skip the stages of searching and thinking and learning and building and debugging.
I disagree with the requirement to make this or any other hobby 'more accessible'. Given the internet, information is much more accessible now than it was in the past. The problem is that people now want everything served up to them on a plate, as they had at school and university. If anything it is now too accessible, as people think they can skip the stages of searching and thinking and learning and building and debugging.
There's a few threads about this in the Multi Way section, some of us noobs are trying to make a team effort to make really good plans for other noobs.
I think it's quite interesting to see the progression, and how different personalities bring different qualities to try and make the best solutions for the end build.
MonkeyBox is one, Tower XL another, there are more threads, but the ones I mentioned try to focus a bit more on "team effort".
We make mistakes, but being a team effort we all get corrected, goes a bit slow, but the idea is to eventually arrive at a better, more refined, end result than if you'd start alone from the ground up, and the end result is intended to be a benefit for all other DIY'ers.
I've seen some threads like this in the amp section also, there is a lot of good people here, we all have to be able to tolerate some criticism and error correction, none of us are correct 100% of the time.
And sometimes a humorous comment might be interpreted wrong, we are all different people, better have some room for personal differences.
I really like diyaudio, it's a great community.
I even like DF96 occassionaly ;-)
I think it's quite interesting to see the progression, and how different personalities bring different qualities to try and make the best solutions for the end build.
MonkeyBox is one, Tower XL another, there are more threads, but the ones I mentioned try to focus a bit more on "team effort".
We make mistakes, but being a team effort we all get corrected, goes a bit slow, but the idea is to eventually arrive at a better, more refined, end result than if you'd start alone from the ground up, and the end result is intended to be a benefit for all other DIY'ers.
I've seen some threads like this in the amp section also, there is a lot of good people here, we all have to be able to tolerate some criticism and error correction, none of us are correct 100% of the time.
And sometimes a humorous comment might be interpreted wrong, we are all different people, better have some room for personal differences.
I really like diyaudio, it's a great community.
I even like DF96 occassionaly ;-)
Argument goes on when no supporting evidence is used. It also goes on when people confuse opinion with evidence.
The ham radio hobby is also somewhat and older person's hobby, and was in a long state of decline in membership, as the older crowd left this world. This was largely reversed by removal of most of the barriers to entry. The Morse code requirements are gone, several digital operating modes now exist, some of which mimic smart phone texting, and there are now several internet methods of gaining enough basic knowledge to pass the require tests for license approval. As a result there are now more licensed ham radio operators in the USA than there ever have been.
OK, lets prepare them a plate!
Look at today's "maker movement." Here a relative newbie to electronics can order up an Arduino board from one of a hundred or so places, grab a recipe from the web on how to connect up a shield or two, add some sensors, maybe some LED's, stir well, and season with some code snippets copied from the internet spliced together in a freeware editor, and serve up a working device of some sort. Here again the biggest obstacle is deciding what you want to make, not the actual "making."
I decided that I wanted to make a music synthesizer, so I followed the above procedure, and made one. The biggest obstacle was debugging the code that I wrote myself.
A large percentage of the under 40 crowd IS happy listening to their music through white wires. Part of that is the trendiness factor, and part of that is accessibility. I got MP3 players for the grandkids on Amazon for about $30 each, and they are happy with them. A SMALL FRACTION of that group may desire something better. It has always been that way. Most of my friends in the 60's were happy with generic Radio Shack (or worse) stuff, and those that wanted "better" really wanted "louder."
Of that small fraction, an even smaller slice will be interested in DIY. It was the same way with fast cars in the "old days." Want to go fast, you bought a Camaro, Challenger, or a Mustang......or you started with something slow, and built your own "fast"....Guess which way I went?
So as 6L6 pointed out in his Youtube video, the percentage of available audio DIYers is small, probably far less than 1% of the population, so how can we help?
I asked that question of my readers about 10 years ago, and the response was overwhelmingly in favor of a EL84 / 6BQ5 push pull amp, so I designed the SPP (simple push pull). It never sold well, and after 10 years, remains less than 10% of the total out of only 3 products. People don't always know what they want, but will follow trends.....so and so built one of these, and likes it, so I'll make one too.
A recent poll of readership seems to favor a modular "building block" approach, which is a direction I was leaning toward, So I will go there.
How can we help? Some kind of index for popular builds may make the key facts more accessible.
Look at how Adafruit and Sparkfun have taken the lead in the maker movement. Posting step by step build ups on Youtube seems to work with a lot of things, so I'm going to try that. Weekly "what's new" video blogs seem to work for them....if you can understand Ilmor's voice and trendy talk.
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