John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III

[john curl]

I personally think that 'dark matter' is as 'alien' to my school teaching as anything Bybee implies.

 

[PMA]

The more cynical of us might think you brought it up with the sole intent of riling up the group that thinks the whole thing is a load of hullabaloo. Which is to say, I'm grateful Howie "took the bait" in a diffusive way.

But have fun, and I mean that most sincerely.

Or why to bother to make any measurements, ears are the final judge! ( ) /even if there is no change in signal-sound/

 

[gpauk]

I personally think that 'dark matter' is as 'alien' to my school teaching as anything Bybee implies.

I think that tells us all we need to know.

 

[hhoyt]

Howie, I understand your question, but I doubt that I could measure any difference with the test equipment available. Also, since these devices put out a 'field' rather than directly connected, it is almost impossible to separate the 2 channels in the JC-5 from the influence of even one device in the box.
Now, I realize this is a controversial topic, so why did I bring it up? I did, because I believe in freedom of speech, i.e. , for me to talk about what is on MY mind at the moment, even if others can't even have access to the very devices that are under test. It is a bit like Dan talking about his materials and his listening experiences with them. I will probably never hear what he is experimenting with, but I support his right to do it, and to be able to express his opinions on what he has found, here.
Now can I be in a position to imagine that there is a difference? Yes, of course. And I will do my best to be objective and fair with my listening decision, but I have to trust my ears and myself to not fool ME, so that I can learn if this is an interesting area to explore for future improvements in my audio designs.

Hi John,

I can see what you are saying, and the Lounge, being a free-for-all forum the Bybee discussions are OK, though so far entirely non-technical.

You have obvious mastery of the subtleties in amplifier design and have determined the mechanisms behind the aural effects the designs embody. I would think it would be a source of pride to you to know what is happening with the device and learn to manipulate and optimize the effect based on that knowledge.

Maybe Bybee can give you additional information to conduct that investigation? I would be frustrated to have someone who invented such a thing tell me only "it has a field that affects the sound" or whatever. Maybe if he told you enough so you could explain the effect you could then discover a way to employ it for even better amplifier topologies.

These are just some thoughts, I love new technologies, but personally I am not satisfied by the claim of an effect without any information regarding the mechanism by which they work, and based on your mastery of the art, I'll bet you aren't either.

Cheers!
Howie

 

[john curl]

I think that the open loop bandwidth of an amp or preamp makes more difference than most things.

 

[scottjoplin]

Difference? maybe, better? how can you know?

 

[Mark Johnson]

I'm pretty sure I would purchase and use a product named "ORNAMENTAL INERT PLACEBO" if I could reliably and repeatably hear a sonic improvement with, compared to without, the placebo. I'd probably also require that one or two other listeners whose ears and judgement I trust, can also reliably & repeatably hear a sonic improvement.

I don't care if it's a Tice Clock or a Pet Rock or a sack of Himalayan Sea Salt or even (gasp!) a sealed Black Box. If it reliably and repeatably improves my listening enjoyment and entertainment, and if it makes a similar improvement for other listeners who I trust, I'll use it. Assuming the price is right of course. Probably I wouldn't increase the cost of my total playback rig by 20%, if the new ORNAMENTAL INERT PLACEBO thing only improves enjoyment by 1%.

 

[Max Headroom]

Howie, I understand your question, but I doubt that I could measure any difference with the test equipment available. Also, since these devices put out a 'field' rather than directly connected, it is almost impossible to separate the 2 channels in the JC-5 from the influence of even one device in the box.

You ought to be able to measure channels 'before and after'. Interesting would be to measure channel difference 'before and after'.

Now, I realize this is a controversial topic, so why did I bring it up? I did, because I believe in freedom of speech, i.e. , for me to talk about what is on MY mind at the moment, even if others can't even have access to the very devices that are under test.

And so it should be.

It is a bit like Dan talking about his materials and his listening experiences with them. I will probably never hear what he is experimenting with, but I support his right to do it, and to be able to express his opinions on what he has found, here.

Hi John. Yes, we are dealing with very interesting 'field' effects....I find it very curious that physics profs that I demo'd to had no explanation and intense interest. BTW I had a friend bring around his acoustic guitar (pickup) and combo guitar amp that has switchable SS/ tube preamp stage/SS OPS. Very interesting is the really strong affect of sticking my 'stuff' on the preamp tube..,..much clearer/quieter/musical compared to original. With the amp chassis and speakers magnets treated, the overall sound is light years better than 'factory'. Next thing we compared guitar cables, all three were typical commercial coaxial cables with one of the cables with the jacks treated internally. The two 'standard' cables sounded very similar, and the treated cable going to the 'next level' in terms of clarity, dynamics and pleasantness, IOW the two 'factory' cables sounded dull and even slightly 'off tune'. All three cables showed abundantly clear directional effects, one direction sounding 'right' and the opposite direction sounding shut down and plain 'wrong'. I have the amp for a few days and will try to measure/record these differences, these differences should be easy to capture.

Now can I be in a position to imagine that there is a difference? Yes, of course. And I will do my best to be objective and fair with my listening decision, but I have to trust my ears and myself to not fool ME, so that I can learn if this is an interesting area to explore for future improvements in my audio designs.

The only reason that any of us may have doubt is because we have been preconditioned or 'indoctrinated' into believing that systems such as audio systems are inert and immutable. Keep trusting your ears .

 

[indra1]

... I am not satisfied by the claim of an effect without any information regarding the mechanism by which they work, and based on your mastery of the art, I'll bet you aren't either....

It is very difficult for someone to measure sonic related differences while not being able to reliably perceive the said differences. I suspect JC would have a better chance of tracing the technical aspects had he access to a suitable facility to reliably hear a difference, perhaps a good isolated anechoic chamber, and/or the help of a team with acute listening ability the level of Bob Crump, Joe Sammut, Charles Hansen or better.

One of the biggest obstacle to funding basic research such as this is the lack of clear prospect on financial gain. Often enough, other cheaper and proven alternative for marketing purposes such as spreading an aura of mysticism is selected. Similar to magic shows, audio reproduction is entertainment business after all.

 

[nezbleu]

Well thank goodness you cleared all that up!

Edit: That was directed at Dan, somehow the quote was lost. But then, it wasn't really worth repating either.

 

[scott wurcer]

Maybe Bybee can give you additional information to conduct that investigation?

Come on Howie, accept the obvious. That's just the way it goes.

 

[john curl]

Jack called me tonight to ask me if I tried the test with my new amp, but I found that it was too hard to get into the amp, at the last minute, so I put it off for a few days. I would rather that Jack was not so anxious for my reaction. He already has another engineer who has tried it already and is enthusiastic with the change. I am getting too old for this, and I really DO wish that Bob Crump and/or Charley Hansen were still alive. They were better at these listening things than I generally am. We need more good listeners that we can rely on to help audio designers make better products.

 

[traderbam]

I imagine Jack is keen to become a supplier to Parasound.
I am glad you are going to try this out. The question occurred to me of why you aren't using Bybee devices in your designs when you think they make a significant improvement. But I suppose that would not be entirely your decision.

 

[Max Headroom]

Well thank goodness you cleared all that up!

Edit: That was directed at Dan, somehow the quote was lost. But then, it wasn't really worth repating either.

If you have sensible information say it.
You are way out of your depth re BQP or my filter method, it would be best that you refrain from carping.

Dan.

 

[billshurv]

Funniest post for weeks!

 

[scottjoplin]

The info is Top Secret

 

[scottjoplin]

We need more good listeners that we can rely on to help audio designers make better products.

Dan?

 

[billshurv]

Talking of Placebo LampizatOr Pacific DAC preview | AudioStream


Expensive: tick
lots of gold: tick
Possibly dangerous: tick
Marketing full of gobsh*te: tick
Measurements: likely to abysmal based on his previous efforts


I particularly like

I think this comes down to a certain non-binary thinking that Lukasz is a walking embodiment of. While his ultimate designs and choices are grounded in legitimate scientific theory, a large part of what makes him unique is his ability to say: 'This is the right way to do it, but let’s see what happens if...' This curiosity, of course, balances well with Lukasz having an international Executive MBA degree.

 

[DF96]

I have sometimes warned newbies attracted by Mr. Lampizator's flowing prose that his approach to audio electronics can politely be described as 'creative'. I never knew he had an MBA; I guess that explains his creative writing skills.

 

[john curl]

But have you ever heard a Lampizator DAC? I have, and it is pretty good sounding. Perhaps one of the best.