I am coming to the conclusion that the reason the paper-in-oil capacitors are so expensive is that guitarists LIKE the distortion and non-linearities afforded by the PIO caps---it ADDS a sound that is pleasing to their ears; much like tube amps and carbon comp resistors.
I guess they are so expensive because the clientele of crazy guitar players does not allow a big volume production.😀
Somehow I doubt that. Most guitarists have never heard an amp with PIO caps, although they might like it if they did. 🙂
A galery for ancient parts would be interesting I believe.😀
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One thing that surprised me is that some of the supposed caps have such high tolerance
( 10% ).
I just measured the ESR and the Capacitance of 4 Amstran Caps.
I basically wound up with a pair reading High and a pair reading low.
So when I install them I will make sure I put then in the circuit balanced as best as possible
( 10% ).
I just measured the ESR and the Capacitance of 4 Amstran Caps.
I basically wound up with a pair reading High and a pair reading low.
So when I install them I will make sure I put then in the circuit balanced as best as possible
It was traditional for most caps to have 20% tolerance. Resistors were typically 10%. In most valve circuits this is good enough.
Why, of course !!!!
They are absolute winners on MOJO !!!!!!
But .... but ..... isn´t MOJO unmeasurable, just depending on Human Taste?
Not so fast my boy !!!! .... enter the revolutionary, patent pending .... MOJO METER !!!!!
This one has been calibrated to digitally compare coffee taste and display it on screen with hard cold numbers, which nobody can argue, not even on DIY Audio 😉
Of course, it can be calibrated to check anything where MOJO applies.
Just 32728 U$ Dollars gets you your own calibrated one.
Newbie ask you experts please answer
Where in hi-fi amp chip amp best to use paper oil capacitors?
Input?
Power supply?
Dunno where else - totally total newbie but willing to learn learn
Trying to learn upchange amp sound to more like tube sound maybe can maybe cannot just try
I got chip amp lm1875 maybe can right?
Where in hi-fi amp chip amp best to use paper oil capacitors?
Input?
Power supply?
Dunno where else - totally total newbie but willing to learn learn
Trying to learn upchange amp sound to more like tube sound maybe can maybe cannot just try
I got chip amp lm1875 maybe can right?
I've got Obligatto PIOs in the input of my B1 buffer amp, I find them really pleasing to the ear.
If PIO capacitors are so bad, why are they favoured in audiphile circles? Is it due to pleasantly coloring the sound?
(A side question: do PTFE e.g Russian FT-3 teflon dielectric capacitors sound better than polypropylene, in interstage coupling application? And what about silver mica?)
(A side question: do PTFE e.g Russian FT-3 teflon dielectric capacitors sound better than polypropylene, in interstage coupling application? And what about silver mica?)
Because fools are very easily separated from their money.
Btw, your assumption appears to be right.
Best regards!
There are some audiophiles who simply favour anything which is not (in their estimation) mainstream electronic circuit and components. They sincerely believe that "engineers" have produced a conspiracy to damage sound. Hence they go for circuits with obvious design flaws, and components which are either obsolete or hand-made (i.e. inferior to factory-made items). Audio electronics is mostly sufficiently undemanding that this does little harm, and any genuine audible difference (almost certainly a degradation) is perceived by them to be an improvement.
Paper in oil capacitors were used on a large scale in guitar amplifiers from the 60's and 70's. If you look on YouTube for movies on guitar amplifier repairs you'll see how horrible these capacitors look after decennia. And even if they still look good, a serious specialist will replace them saying "everybody in the business knows that paper in oil capacitors are bad or are going bad."
Now you can argue that with new technologies a much improved paper in capacitor can be made, but why use a capacitor you'll know is going to fail sooner or later? Because it's supposed to sound better? I don't get that line of thought.
Now you can argue that with new technologies a much improved paper in capacitor can be made, but why use a capacitor you'll know is going to fail sooner or later? Because it's supposed to sound better? I don't get that line of thought.
"pleasantly coloring" is a matter of taste. As it seems that "audiphile circles" prefer soft elevator music with not much going on concerning dynamics and frequency extension then "softening" effect of a lossy (high dissipation factor) paper in oil capacitor might be considered welcome filtering.
Personally I find any capacitor (even the less bad ones like Styroflex) unacceptable as a coupling element between stages but this again is a matter of taste...
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Musicians' relationship to science, physics etc. generally is even worse than that of audiophools', which usually is bad enough.
Best regards!
I will mention this for people who can hear and who care. Caps sound different. Circuits sound different etc etc etc ... If you think your test machine is going to tell you how they sound you have not built enough stuff yet.
That said the 5.00 cap may sound better than the 500.00 one. Build your circuits so you can play with various components and listen. No theories, no sales pitch, just listen and then you will know.
Enjoy the ride
Tom
That said the 5.00 cap may sound better than the 500.00 one. Build your circuits so you can play with various components and listen. No theories, no sales pitch, just listen and then you will know.
Enjoy the ride
Tom
I compared the Obbligato PIO to their other film caps and to other brands in extensive A/B testing. I also found the Obb PIO pleasant, but not as good overall as their other poly caps - the ones in the fancy copper sheel. The PIO does have a lovely midrange, tho.
Best value for money I ever found are the Jensen Cross Caps. No more expensive than any commercial film cap and neutral in amps and crossovers.
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