Hello fellow DIYers.
I am building my first set of kit speakers, the Visaton Experience V20 floorstanders. I have a question I hope you can help me with. The kit specifies 19mm chipboard of MDF, but all I can source here in Ireland is 18mm. Will using these thinner sheets affect the build cosmetically or acoustically? Many thanks for your help, Adam
I am building my first set of kit speakers, the Visaton Experience V20 floorstanders. I have a question I hope you can help me with. The kit specifies 19mm chipboard of MDF, but all I can source here in Ireland is 18mm. Will using these thinner sheets affect the build cosmetically or acoustically? Many thanks for your help, Adam
18-19mm baltic birch is all I use, (routing mdf and the fine dust is not healthy).
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/97043-elsinore-project-thread-161.html#post3618366
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/97043-elsinore-project-thread-161.html#post3618366
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Thanks for your quick reply koja, I am indeed planning to use plywood instead of MDF but I have the same issue with only 18mm being available instead of the specified 19mm. This will alter the internal volume slightly due to internal panels being slimmer, what I'm wondering is will this make a difference to the sound? And also, will the panels no longer be a flush fit?
1mm is not that significant. You can add extra bracing or just make the top double and you`ll be fine. Double front baffle would also make a difference, the two 20cm units would bend the 18mm plywood.
A few comments on the kit - if I was you I would not build it, here is why:
- Its a WMTMW which appears to use 4th order slopes. The spacing between the midwoofers due to their diameter and the large flange of the tweeter will compromise seriously your vertical polar response, really no idea why they designed it this way. The first lobes would be at around 1.4-1.5Khz - to compensate you want to crossover as low as possible and that means either a very robust tweeter that can handle it, a small neo one that would push center to center spacing to a lower margin (so the first cancellations to occur higher in frequency) or put it in a threaded waveguide. 13cm is probably the largest midwoofer you want to go for such design but with the above comment on implementation. Smaller drivers would blend better allowing for much more flexibility. They`ve used a crossover at what appears to be 3.6-3.8Khz, from a technical perspective - I cannot understand why.
- Both the woofers and midwoofers are wired in parallel. And that leads to the impedance going to about 3 ohms between 100 and 200Hz. Phase is not given but if its negative, that would make things even worse. I hope you have a really tough amp.
- Price performance of Visaton drivers is low, recent SB Acoustics, Wavecor (there are many projects with them) are far superior, really in a different league and cost similar. You`d spend more on the cabs and finish so worth to go for a better designed driver in my opinion.
- I would remove the MKT cap from the tweeter section and replace with a good poly cap, you can find where you live Clarity Cap PX - very good price/performance and it will make a difference, those Visaton square caps are horrible (even the black MKP ones).
A few comments on the kit - if I was you I would not build it, here is why:
- Its a WMTMW which appears to use 4th order slopes. The spacing between the midwoofers due to their diameter and the large flange of the tweeter will compromise seriously your vertical polar response, really no idea why they designed it this way. The first lobes would be at around 1.4-1.5Khz - to compensate you want to crossover as low as possible and that means either a very robust tweeter that can handle it, a small neo one that would push center to center spacing to a lower margin (so the first cancellations to occur higher in frequency) or put it in a threaded waveguide. 13cm is probably the largest midwoofer you want to go for such design but with the above comment on implementation. Smaller drivers would blend better allowing for much more flexibility. They`ve used a crossover at what appears to be 3.6-3.8Khz, from a technical perspective - I cannot understand why.
- Both the woofers and midwoofers are wired in parallel. And that leads to the impedance going to about 3 ohms between 100 and 200Hz. Phase is not given but if its negative, that would make things even worse. I hope you have a really tough amp.
- Price performance of Visaton drivers is low, recent SB Acoustics, Wavecor (there are many projects with them) are far superior, really in a different league and cost similar. You`d spend more on the cabs and finish so worth to go for a better designed driver in my opinion.
- I would remove the MKT cap from the tweeter section and replace with a good poly cap, you can find where you live Clarity Cap PX - very good price/performance and it will make a difference, those Visaton square caps are horrible (even the black MKP ones).
To say that price performance ratio of the Visaton W130S, W200S and G25FFL is not good, is simply not true and that goes for the statement about capacitors. I have listened to these speakers once and these were somewhat less ideal sounding than what I am used to, but that has to do with the physical driver arrangement and XO schematics.
This range of woofers/midwoofers is a very robust kind that won't let you down so easily.
This range of woofers/midwoofers is a very robust kind that won't let you down so easily.
Glad to hear you think 1mm is not that significant.
I have already purchased this kit a number of months ago but am only getting the opportunity to build them now, really looking forward to it. The kit cost me less than €500, which I feel makes for a superb price performance ratio.
I have already purchased this kit a number of months ago but am only getting the opportunity to build them now, really looking forward to it. The kit cost me less than €500, which I feel makes for a superb price performance ratio.
Adam
there are Alternatives:
VOX 200 LIGHT
Here you have too D'Appo. Slimmer speaker Cabinet- more WAF factor.
More real D'Appo with 4" units.
Any years back i could listen 3 different variants and all clear, detailed, dry bass.
For first experience maybe:
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
or a classical 3 way:
STARLET
Modified DT94 to much better G20FFL
Later maybe you can spent money to stock up your project.
there are Alternatives:
VOX 200 LIGHT
Here you have too D'Appo. Slimmer speaker Cabinet- more WAF factor.
More real D'Appo with 4" units.
Any years back i could listen 3 different variants and all clear, detailed, dry bass.
For first experience maybe:
Strassacker: Speaker Building, Components
or a classical 3 way:
STARLET
Modified DT94 to much better G20FFL
Later maybe you can spent money to stock up your project.
Oh i've forgotten another impressing 3 way with Visaton AL130M and KE25SC and
the Alcone AC10 Woofer.
Could listen it 2008 HiFi Musicworld meeting- very good atmosphere and 3D image.https://www.hifi-selbstbau.de/bauvorschl-mainmenu-36/3-wege-lautsprecher-mainmenu-76/63-trio-ntlich
I think Thomas and Theo could support you.
the Alcone AC10 Woofer.
Could listen it 2008 HiFi Musicworld meeting- very good atmosphere and 3D image.https://www.hifi-selbstbau.de/bauvorschl-mainmenu-36/3-wege-lautsprecher-mainmenu-76/63-trio-ntlich
I think Thomas and Theo could support you.
Or maybe better, full Visaton project..
Attachments
Price/performance compared to SB Acoustics and Wavecor offerings is what I said. In Bulgaria Visaton got pretty expensive, maybe it is cheaper in Croatia. The Visaton MKP series are perhaps the worst capacitors I have ever listened to, their midrange sounds grainy to me. They were the caps that convinced me capacitors do have a sound of their own many years ago, all tested on a Fostex fullrange (so just swaping caps). But let`s not turn the thread onto a comparison of parts.
Or maybe better, full Visaton project..
Yes vulejov the AL200 needs not that much Volume- and all Visaton premium chassis.
Nice project.
I am not experienced creating crossovers, but i like speaker wish work with less parts
as possible.
I have good experience with Solen SCR capacitor- that is a main producer for MKP capacitors- different brands in France.
Yes vulejov the AL200 needs not that much Volume- and all Visaton premium chassis.
Nice project.
I am not experienced creating crossovers, but i like speaker wish work with less parts
as possible.
I have good experience with Solen SCR capacitor- that is a main producer for MKP capacitors- different brands in France.
Thank you all for your replies. As stated, I purchased the Experience V20 kit some time ago, and this is what I am building. I do appreciate all the suggestions of alternatives, but my decision is made since I already have the kit.
Thank you Dissi for your reply, that's exactly what I hope! In terms of an amp, I have a Rotel RA 1070 capable of 100 watts x 2 into 4 ohms, will this be sufficient?
Experience V20 - if placed properly with enough distance to the room boundaries and the listener - is still one of the greatest kits price/performance-wise. This is why it's still around almost 30 years after its introduction. 18mm chipboard will be fine. Probably you have to adapt the plans slightly.
If 100 watts are sufficient will depend on listening habits.
If 100 watts are sufficient will depend on listening habits.
Rotel amps traditionally have a high damping factor. A value of 400 from 20 Hz to 20 kHz is excellent and should be eminently suited to drive a low impedance speaker.
Hertzschmerz, thank you for the feedback on the Experience V20 - I had no idea the kit has been around for such a long time! I will adapt the plans slightly to allow for the 1mm difference.
I hope then that the Rotel amp with its excellent damping factor will do the job (I have faith in the amp that the THD will be ok at lower ohms), I think 100 watts will be suitable for most of my usual listening - I do plan to buy a PA amp with at least 500 watts for the rare occasion when I will be pushing the speakers louder.
I hope then that the Rotel amp with its excellent damping factor will do the job (I have faith in the amp that the THD will be ok at lower ohms), I think 100 watts will be suitable for most of my usual listening - I do plan to buy a PA amp with at least 500 watts for the rare occasion when I will be pushing the speakers louder.
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