Not sure why you say that. It's always seemed like a pretty friendly place in my experience. Have you tried posting and asking questions?
The advantage of TB is that it's a forum that deals with exactly what you're interested in. My earlier link was just to one of the boards. If you're set on building something yourself, check out the Luthier's Corner section. I don't generally look there but when I did I found links to building the small practice bass I recalled earlier. It's called a Wing Bass. Anyway here are some more links that relate to your interest.
https://www.talkbass.com/forums/luthiers-corner.57/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/wing-bass-on-a-budget-phase-i.1278412/
https://www.talkbass.com/threads/winter-2017-build-off-wing-bass.1259432/
https://www.wingbass.com/store/wing-bass-classic-4-string/#orientation
There are some other threads about this design on the Bass Guitar forum, just search for Wing.
Yes, there are some very helpful people on diyAudio but, I seriously doubt that most folks here have any experience building guitars. So, as helpful as they might try to be, their advice might be of limited utility.
Unfortunately, the Instruments & Amps forum has very little traffic compared to the other sections. For whatever reason - and unlike other popular forums - the moderators here don't allow discussion about tube guitar amps on the same board as tube stereo. I think it's elitist, and unfortunate, but hey it's their forum and those are the rules. Hopefully there's no rule against posting pics of fishing poles and boats! God help you if there is.
The only times I'm usually here is when a thread I've been involved in has been moved. When that happens it's usually a death knell for the thread. If you look at the list of threads it's easy to find the one that's been moved - it has almost 14,000 views because it was on the other forum. When I found it here, I noticed your post and, since I play bass, I responded.
Anyway, check out the links. If you give TB a chance I think you'll find a lot of useful information there.
Thanks mate, yeah I spent quite a bit of time on TB going through a lot of those builds and lots of discussions on bass. I did post the same question with more details on my music tastes and ambitions but even after so long and plenty of views but no response. Since I enjoy the diy process I thot to try here hoping for assist with just exploring options which will be comfy for practice and playable. Worrying about tone and things later with further trial and error. I'll go through those links since I know a bit more now to help make sense of things
Make sure you post pics on this project.
About string lenght.
I beleive the standard 34" it mostly because that's what Fender used.
I recently bought an Ibanez 28.8" scale bass because I feel the 34" scale is uncomfortable to play with but the sounds it generates is mighty fine.
If the decay feels a bit short, well, there's always compressors ;-)
About string lenght.
I beleive the standard 34" it mostly because that's what Fender used.
I recently bought an Ibanez 28.8" scale bass because I feel the 34" scale is uncomfortable to play with but the sounds it generates is mighty fine.
If the decay feels a bit short, well, there's always compressors ;-)
Last edited:
I agree. Even though I have big hands, a 34" instrument is awkward down near the headstock end, and a 35" bass is noticeably worse. (I have one 35" instrument.)
Guitar technique (one finger per fret) is really awkward, and probably not medically advisable; that's why many bassists use four fingers to cover only three frets, rather than four.
The shorter-scale basses I've tried not only have less sustain, they also have a different timbre. More "thunky", with the pitch of the notes less well defined than the deep, accurately pitched sounds that you get with a good 34" or 35" bass.
In the days before the electric bass became dominant, it was a common joke that the bass player could play a wrong note and nobody would notice; the short, indistinct thud from a plucked upright bass don't have a very well defined pitch, so errors are more likely to go unnoticed!
Then again, Paul McCartney managed to play a lot of great bass lines with his short-scale Hofner violin bass, so, as usual, it's more about the quality of the musician than the quality of the instrument.
-Gnobuddy
Glad to know you're seriously considering this route. For finishing touches, you probably want to replace the 250K pots that are typically in cheap guitar electronics for higher value ones. The other thing is that you want a string tree that covers all 4 strings, you don't want to risk string buzz in this kind of project. The string tree for a 5 string inline tuner bass will do this, $2?
As for strings, not sure if you're worried about cosmetics, or just getting the right gauge. If you're worried about cosmetics, then yes you will have to buy a short scale string set. I had a plan to avoid this, which escapes me now. I think it might have been to buy Chinese ebay string sets for a bass and a guitar and pull out the right 4 strings. This will probably look terrible, with some strings have a ridiculous excess length and some not, but I like the rough look myself.
I know you're trying to be helpful, but this is exactly why I suggested that he would get better advice on the TB forum . . .
Apparently you're not familiar with the U-Bass type strings he is thinking about using. They are big, fat, rubbery things and have no metal in them so they cannot be used with a standard electric bass guitar pickup. They also have some other issues such as stickiness (some people use talcum powder to help with this) and they stretch which means that they must be removed and cut shorter after too much string becomes wound around the tuner peg. Until they are stretched out, they are hard to keep in tune. Also, their thickness requires the use of tuners that can accommodate them. I don't own a U-Bass so I don't keep up with the nuances of the latest strings but they are quite different from regular strings. I've only played a U-Bass once and it didn't feel anything like a regular electric bass guitar although the sound is pretty cool and much more like an upright.
Yes, I'm sure you could convert a guitar but I'd be concerned that the increased tension of regular bass strings might be more than the neck / trussrod was designed for. There are other small basses sold (not U-Basses) that are mostly designed for children. Here's a thread about them from TB: https://www.talkbass.com/threads/sub-short-scale-talk.644956/#post-8937488 I'm sure there are other threads there too, which is why I suggested that TB is a good source of information from people who have more direct knowledge of the subject.
But, according to his original post, he is looking for a way to practice in his cab without having the neck / headstock sticking out the window. So overall length would seem to be the most important design parameter here. The smallest (20" scale) U-Bass sold by Rondo is ~30" long. I have a small acoustic guitar (23" scale) that is about 36" long. The 25" scale Gold Tone Microbass (a U-Bass) is 38" long, about the same length as a typical electric guitar.
That's why I suggested that he try something along the lines of the Wing Bass - it's only 20" long and it's specifically designed as a practice instrument for use in small spaces. It's not a normal bass and requires the use of an octave pedal to sound like one, but it can sound like one. Yes, it has its limitations, one of which is the spacing of the frets. But it IS short!
Of course there's a far simpler solution - he could use his regular bass and sit in the back seat of the cab while practicing and then move to the front when he needs to drive. Too bad he lives in Australia. If he lived in a normal country where cars use left hand drive he wouldn't have this problem, since he's a lefty. 🙄
But I suspect he really just wants a project to work on and he is obviously very skilled at fabrication.
Last edited:
I've spent a lot of time on that forum, that's where I learned about the conversion I'm recommending, so please just save the attitude. You make your own recommendation, *******, don't try to cut down mine for your ego.
And re-read his original post which is about an electric instrument.
Last edited:
I've had enough of this *******. I'm outta here. Johnny, if you need any more info from me, please PM me.
I certainly didn't mean to be insulting in any way and it has nothing to do with ego.
I merely pointed out that the U-Bass strings he is interested in using (which he clearly stated in the post you quoted) are not compatible with standard electric guitar pickups. So your comments and suggestions (based on your knowledge of standard guitar electronics and your lack of knowledge about U-Bass strings) simply do not apply.
If he wants to try to combine, in some odd way, regular bass and guitar strings on the same instrument, as you suggest, fine. But since he expressed interest in using U-Bass strings I wanted to point out some of the ways in which they are significantly different from normal strings.
As for the original post, maybe you should re-read it.
Mainly, my post was trying to address the issue of instrument length, which seemed to me to be the main focus of his original post. He even states that a regular short scale bass is too long. So the options I've pointed out - the smaller (20" scale) U-Basses, perhaps some Sub Short scales, and especially, the Wing design (20" total length) - were meant to address that issue. I seriously doubt that any instrument that's the size of a standard electric guitar (~38") could be played comfortably while sitting in the driver's seat of a car without having the neck / headstock sticking out the window. Heck, I can't even imagine it would be comfortable even with it sticking out the window!
Yes, his original post does specify an electric instrument. And the instruments I've discussed (U-Basses, Sub-Short Scale basses, the Wing bass) - are ALL electric instruments, something else you apparently failed to grasp. The U-Basses, both the hollow and solid body versions, use piezo pickups. The hollow ones are acoustic / electric but put out relatively little sound unless they are plugged into an amp. I didn't read the whole Sub-Short Bass thread but the ones I saw seem to use normal bass pickups, as does the Wing bass.
As for attitude, you're the one who is resorting to name calling.
There are plenty of times when I've posted things and found out that my understanding of them was lacking. I don't take it personally or consider it an insult when someone corrects me, I try to learn from it.
Last edited:
Guys do I really need to see this? I am just trying to end up with something I can use to follow an online course I am finding easy enough to follow. I have checkout so many commercial items and custom builds. Some come very close through different means but none are easily accessible either gumtree or walking into a store or the bay for a reasonably cheap price
I like building things of my own and things so far have already been a healthy distraction for me
The Polynesian sounding name strings for the Kala U-Bass are sold for 25" scale instrument. These have been reviewed to have none of the stickiness of the white strings from other brands and the pickups are piezo. Hold the tune better and last longer. Remember this is second hand information I have gathered online. An advantage is that Kala sell all hardware as parts including their special tuning pegs. If the strings last me an year I will be happy as hopefully by then I wouldn't be sitting on a rank anymore. There are plenty of online demo vids showing different notes with effects and things. This is why a regular 25" guitar swapped out with Kala parts and them strings plus headless mod is such a solid option
The other thing is that the 30" is my comfortable workspace for practice. I thot I might be able to fit a slightly smaller then short, a ?29"? maybe? Some tricks like BEAD even?
I finally just found an example of what would be the sound I am aiming for in the short term over the next few months then work my way towards Roots Rock Reggae by the Wailers and Beautiful Woman by Toots & The Maytals next year I dont know how in my browse of bass pedals demos this came up but thats the sound I love listening to to unwind. I also have a clip of my all time fav bass sounds but last few times I have shared it was met with derision but its a lot older then this beauty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGMuHhRA16w
I like building things of my own and things so far have already been a healthy distraction for me
The Polynesian sounding name strings for the Kala U-Bass are sold for 25" scale instrument. These have been reviewed to have none of the stickiness of the white strings from other brands and the pickups are piezo. Hold the tune better and last longer. Remember this is second hand information I have gathered online. An advantage is that Kala sell all hardware as parts including their special tuning pegs. If the strings last me an year I will be happy as hopefully by then I wouldn't be sitting on a rank anymore. There are plenty of online demo vids showing different notes with effects and things. This is why a regular 25" guitar swapped out with Kala parts and them strings plus headless mod is such a solid option
The other thing is that the 30" is my comfortable workspace for practice. I thot I might be able to fit a slightly smaller then short, a ?29"? maybe? Some tricks like BEAD even?
I finally just found an example of what would be the sound I am aiming for in the short term over the next few months then work my way towards Roots Rock Reggae by the Wailers and Beautiful Woman by Toots & The Maytals next year I dont know how in my browse of bass pedals demos this came up but thats the sound I love listening to to unwind. I also have a clip of my all time fav bass sounds but last few times I have shared it was met with derision but its a lot older then this beauty
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGMuHhRA16w
So you're saying that 30" of total length is the maximum that will work, correct? I assume you arrived at that conclusion while sitting in the car and measuring somehow.
If it were me, I'd just buy a small U-Bass (20" scale, 30" total length) like one of these:
Hadean Bass Uke UKBE-22 N - RondoMusic.com
Hadean Bass Uke UKB-29 - RondoMusic.com
Since these things are all made in either China or Indonesia, and you are over on that side of the world (closer than the US anyway) I would think that you could find these from a seller near you (probably direct from China on Alibaba or something) and pay less than what Rondo charges, which is pretty cheap really.
There are several people on TB who have modded these and even one guy who has built some with different body shapes and upgrades. Check out the customer comments on the Rondo site. I assume you have gone on Youtube and listened to numerous U-Bass recordings and that you find the tone acceptable.
If you choose to try to build something you should be aware that what you're after is unique - a headless U-Bass that has a 25" scale and is only 30" long. So, excluding the 25", you only have 5" of additional space. Even as a non-luthier, I can see a few possible problems with that. First, the strings do not have a ball or whatever they call it on the end. If you look at your regular bass where the strings go through the bridge you'll see them - little brass rings. The U-Bass strings have to be tied in a big knot at the end so you would need the space to do that in the area where the normal headstock would be and it could not be too close to the nut because the strings need to angle down from the nut. It seems like that would take up at least 2". Headless basses that use normal strings don't need as much space because they have the ball end. That leaves you very little room on the other end to mount tuners in a way that is stable and with enough space between them to allow for the thickness of the strings. I'm not saying it couldn't be done, but I think it would be a challenging design. . . . or maybe not, again, I'm not a luthier. Seems I read a rumor a while back that someone might be trying to develop some type of flatwound string for these. Again, I don't keep up with all the new developments, but if they did that might be a better way to go than the traditional U-Bass strings.
If you're determined to go that route, I would strongly suggest that you post some questions over at the TB Luthier's Corner. https://www.talkbass.com/forums/luthiers-corner.57/
Just tell them you want to build a headless U-Bass that has a 25" scale and is only 30" long and ask if / how it can be done. That will save you a lot of time and money because they are experienced builders. It's possible that you could end up making a few prototypes before you come up with a design that works as well as you like. It's probable that it will cost more than buying a budget model U-Bass of some type. That's all part of the DIY game. I've gone through the same process building tube amplifiers.
I don't doubt that you have the skills. Just be aware of the possible difficulties involved in such a project. To me it seems pretty ambitious for someone who is just barely starting to play bass.
Last edited:
A headless 25" to 30" scale based on U-Bass or regular tech with max length of 30" is a great way of simplifying its
Crazy that my question on the other site has had a lot of views but has been of no use. Appears to be the same issue faced by many noobs there, its ok I can understand that its a site with a lot of pros who might prefer interacting with only pros. Just a simple look at views vs replies there on certain topics
I think I can use techs from other industries to solve some of the issues. Things like string terminations. We have terminations down to an art form in the fishing insdustry, asking lines around .40mm metals, composites, cored and things to hold 100lb+ with great reliability. The roundwounds on my 34" bass here seems quite easy to play around with and I thinks flats would be even easier
Its only early days... will see where this takes me
Crazy that my question on the other site has had a lot of views but has been of no use. Appears to be the same issue faced by many noobs there, its ok I can understand that its a site with a lot of pros who might prefer interacting with only pros. Just a simple look at views vs replies there on certain topics
I think I can use techs from other industries to solve some of the issues. Things like string terminations. We have terminations down to an art form in the fishing insdustry, asking lines around .40mm metals, composites, cored and things to hold 100lb+ with great reliability. The roundwounds on my 34" bass here seems quite easy to play around with and I thinks flats would be even easier
Its only early days... will see where this takes me
To maximize usable string length, wrap the strings at both ends, over ball bearings, so they are going "in reverse" at the backside of the bass.
Mount the tuning thingies at the back of the bass.
And PLEASE post pics of this invention.
Mount the tuning thingies at the back of the bass.
And PLEASE post pics of this invention.
Jasse, looks like we thinking down same trick 🙂 if considering regular 30" bass strings. I have been taking a good hard look at these
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
They come in all sorts of styles and colors. Tentative plan is to use something like this to pass the extra string around to the back just as you have described. But I might not need them if another trick I am thinking of works
Using a bridge that allows thru body via ferrules, Why cant the winding spigot be directly under the ferrules? The spigots aligned so they wrap up the string dropped down the ferrule and the body thickness provides the extra distance to allow only the tapered part of the string to wrap onto the spigot. This way the bridge can be almost hard up against the edge of the body
The keys of the tuning pegs will stick out the back of the body but I am hoping to find ones with removable keys that can then be turned with allen key or hex socket. Or just grind them key heads down to a flat screwdriver tip profile so that it comes up flush to the body back and accessed via holes. A pair of long nosed pliers will then do the trick to turn em. The KISS with this approach is appealing and will also offer bags of protection in the taxi cockpit
I have come across a lil problem though. Cant find a left handed short scale neck online that I can afford right now, the cheapest is from Eden guitars and a bit out of my means right now. I dont know if a 25 1/2" scale guitar neck will handle the tension from bass strings. So I am going to ponder this further and ask some questions on project guitars forum. Hopefully another builder might be able to help me out with a blem or provide some thots on the strength of the regular guitar neck
re:'I dont know if a 25 1/2" scale guitar neck will handle the tension from bass strings' - if it's a good thick one, then yes, it will. I converted a Strat copy to short scale bass, no probs with the neck. To get the tension right, I bought a 5-string set, & threw away the top string, then tune the other strings as normal (EADG), i.e. up a 4th from their 5 string 34" tension.
Johnny, don't know how far you've progressed, but I have spare bass machine heads & bridge if you want them for free, PM me
Johnny, don't know how far you've progressed, but I have spare bass machine heads & bridge if you want them for free, PM me
Thanks Pete, I appreciate that. I just asked that question on a guitar makers forum
Cant I just wrap the guitar neck with glass or carbon and epoxy, its quite cheap to do? Then it becomes a FRP sandwich composite and should be able to hold tension from square meters of sail. Is there something about FRP composite sandwiches that are bad for music?
Cant I just wrap the guitar neck with glass or carbon and epoxy, its quite cheap to do? Then it becomes a FRP sandwich composite and should be able to hold tension from square meters of sail. Is there something about FRP composite sandwiches that are bad for music?
Lil primer on FRP sandwich for those who might not know it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich_theory
Basically the the non stretch skin stops the core from flexing. For the core to flex it would have to stretch the skin stuck to it
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandwich_theory
Basically the the non stretch skin stops the core from flexing. For the core to flex it would have to stretch the skin stuck to it
I have a Squier Deluxe Active Jazz Bass V, and it has a fretboard made of some sort of black composite (plastic + filler). It's called "Ebonol", presumably to fool the unwary into thinking it's related to ebony in some way. (Just like "Tofurky", a tofu-based health food horror which is supposed to taste like turky, but actually tastes like the inside of a well-used old shoe. And it costs more than real turkey, too. 😱 )
Anyway, the Tofurky, erm, sorry, Ebonol, works just fine as a fretboard material. It gets scratched up a bit by round-wound strings, especially if you have a heavy fretting hand, but sounds no different to my ears than rosewood or actual ebony.
In the case of my Squier bass, Fender/Squier obviously cut costs on this model by using plastic composite as the fretboard material. But there are more illustrious examples out there - the original Steinberger headless bass had a carbon composite neck (I think they advertised it as graphite and carbon fibre composite).
-Gnobuddy
Things are slowly progressing. Worked back till 7am so I could pop into the Bunnings hardware near my place. Picked up a 2m x 65mm x 20mm bit of plank for $12.00 and a router bit. It's a bit better then the old plank that I found by the side of the road. Since the max comfortable instrument length works out 30", that's the first cut. Will go from there. Has anyone tried a router bit in a drill with a steady hand?
Will post some pics of the plank when I wake. Can someone in the please provide some guidance into working out fretboard dimensions for sub 30" scale? I am going to attempt a neck build with this plank. They had very slim planks that looked to be about 4mm
Will post some pics of the plank when I wake. Can someone in the please provide some guidance into working out fretboard dimensions for sub 30" scale? I am going to attempt a neck build with this plank. They had very slim planks that looked to be about 4mm
Yep, I have tried to "mill" out a slot in a plank with a 20000rpm router by holding the plank between my legs and using both hands on the router.
Bad idea, I'll never do that again. Didn't cause bleeding but it was pretty close.
At least rigidly secure the plank before milling.
If you are strong enough than it might work out.
Or you can mount the drill and hold the plank, this will probably work better but you won't really see what you are doing.
Platic padding will be your friend 😀
- Status
- Not open for further replies.