Not easier I would say; a regulated supply is always more complex.
You could try a high quality regulated SMPS. I have no experience with those.
On the other hand, take the loudspeaker into account to get a complete picture.
Hiraga class A amplifiers don't have high damping factors.
An efficient and impedance friendly loudspeaker will work best.
Then the benefit of a regulated supply for the output stage of the amp might not be so apparent.
You could try a high quality regulated SMPS. I have no experience with those.
On the other hand, take the loudspeaker into account to get a complete picture.
Hiraga class A amplifiers don't have high damping factors.
An efficient and impedance friendly loudspeaker will work best.
Then the benefit of a regulated supply for the output stage of the amp might not be so apparent.
I don't have any experience with Class-A with SMPS, but I'm afraid it would sound too sterile like clean Class-D. I believe holistic interaction inside the class-A amp is the key to the musicality, and the perfection is not what I'm looking for.
good articles on solid state power supplies.
Solid State Power Amplifier Supply Part 2
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1278195
Solid State Power Amplifier Supply Part 2
http://www.eetimes.com/document.asp?doc_id=1278195
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SMPS are very cheap. You can always buy one for $30 and try it to see if you like it. In fact, you might simply use it as quasi lab supply to get the amp up and running and make sure the board works.
However, you are building a classic amp and, to me, it should have the power supply it was designed to have, maybe with a bit less capacitance. You will spend a lot of money on this amp before it's complete. Why power it with a piece of junk from China?
You will have more headroom and more flexibility to modify an unregulated supply. If you have to have a regulated supply, you could use two strings of zeners a la Pass.
However, you are building a classic amp and, to me, it should have the power supply it was designed to have, maybe with a bit less capacitance. You will spend a lot of money on this amp before it's complete. Why power it with a piece of junk from China?
You will have more headroom and more flexibility to modify an unregulated supply. If you have to have a regulated supply, you could use two strings of zeners a la Pass.
Good point, better to power it with a high quality supply, some of which also happen to come from China
There is a difference between "build to print" and the rest....Good point, better to power it with a high quality supply, some of which also happen to come from China
Fab
Agreed, the cost of this build is rising especially when it comes to the power supply.
Yes a SMPS to test the boards is a good idea, ill source a good one.
Apparently these amps need at least 1 Farad of capacitance which becomes expensive.
A great deal to think about.
Yes a SMPS to test the boards is a good idea, ill source a good one.
Apparently these amps need at least 1 Farad of capacitance which becomes expensive.
A great deal to think about.
Yep, just a prod.............
If i were to use the SMPS would i need a capacitor bank between the output of the SMPS and the amplification boards?
I couldn't just connect it directly?
Hi Vishalk,
Congrats for your aquisition. I made the amp that you posted here, exactly as it is in the schematic bellow but at a lower power (aprox 38W sinus) not like Dan's 58w sinus version.
I used a classic passive CrC of aprox 1F filetering, in dual mono, plus separate and individual low esr, low capacitance crcrcrc psu (10000uFsamwa+10000samwa+2200nichi+1000nichi) just for each inputs, and i have to say that its not that expensive; the caps cost aprox 110euro (22000uF/35V+10000uF/35v)Samwa+Nichicon (all of them) plus trafos wich cost another 100euro E+I (both)and another 30euros for the inputs trafos psu's.
Its fast building, safe, lasts at least 20 years (i mounted the caps away from heat sources), and have low ripple (lower than smps anyway) and diy satisfaction guaranteed. I obtained very very good results this way. Another friend of mine (Damon) build it with Yageo caps (LG).
Another colleagues of ours build it with a cap multiplier from ESP site (from JLH) articles and achieved very good results but allot of extra heat in the case (wich i particullary dont quite like).
Dan did his Hiraga amp with very expensive caps and nos trannies and then compared them to newer ones (newer ones wined for inputs and drivers)... BUT you dont have to go that expensive to achieve very good quality.
Some russian guys experimented allot with the psu and concluded that a minimum of 0.1F is sufficient to build it good and a max of 0.2F is best, and if above that there isnt much to be gained.
Actually i tested in stereo mode at 20x22000uF/35V (0.44F) and then compared it with 1F and didnt notest anithing in plus. A VERY BIG difference made dual mono psu (left and right) and then an even bigger improvement made the separate psu for each input..
A star ground is a must as this amp is very sensitive.
I've been documenting for almost two years before i rised parts for building it, and found on a french site that a resonant LLC smps was compared to a dual mono, almost 0.5F classic CrC psu and the winner was the classic psu with better clarity, more micro details, better spatiality, depth and more presence.
I tested allot of trannies for this amp as outputs and you will be amazed that lower Ft trannies like mj or mjl21194/93 sounded best on this amp (and no more than 12~15Mhz Ft as i pointed in the "hiraga class a" thread). If you dont believe me try it yourself.
.... The originall 2sc5200 and his complement sounded worse than all of them be it fast or slow Ft.Cheers
Sergiu
Ps: i forgot to tell you that i like jazz, trance, vocal trance, lounge, rap, pop, country etc excluding hard rock where they smash the guitars at the end...
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I'm not convinced you need that much capacitance without the SMPS, either. Good filtering, wiring and layout will do more for noise than adding 50mF more in caps.
I was waiting for you!
Now you are the person i have been waiting for sergiu. I went through all of your threads and learnt a great deal. I am so glad you replied because the information you give is invaluable.
hahaha all the music you like is very similar to my tastes! I will try those trannies you suggest!
Would you mind if i PM you?
Now you are the person i have been waiting for sergiu. I went through all of your threads
and learnt a great deal. I am so glad you replied because the information you give is invaluable.hahaha all the music you like is very similar to my tastes! I will try those trannies you suggest!
Would you mind if i PM you?
Hi Vishalk,
Congrats for your aquisition. I made the amp that you posted here, exactly as it is in the schematic bellow but at a lower power (aprox 38W sinus) not like Dan's 58w sinus version.
I used a classic passive CrC of aprox 1F filetering, in dual mono, plus separate and individual low esr, low capacitance crcrcrc psu (10000uFsamwa+10000samwa+2200nichi+1000nichi) just for each inputs, and i have to say that its not that expensive; the caps cost aprox 110euro (22000uF/35V+10000uF/35v)Samwa+Nichicon (all of them) plus trafos wich cost another 100euro E+I (both)and another 30euros for the inputs trafos psu's.
Its fast building, safe, lasts at least 20 years (i mounted the caps away from heat sources), and have low ripple (lower than smps anyway) and diy satisfaction guaranteed. I obtained very very good results this way. Another friend of mine (Damon) build it with Yageo caps (LG).
Another colleagues of ours build it with a cap multiplier from ESP site (from JLH) articles and achieved very good results but allot of extra heat in the case (wich i particullary dont quite like).
Dan did his Hiraga amp with very expensive caps and nos trannies and then compared them to newer ones (newer ones wined for inputs and drivers)... BUT you dont have to go that expensive to achieve very good quality.
Some russian guys experimented allot with the psu and concluded that a minimum of 0.1F is sufficient to build it good and a max of 0.2F is best, and if above that there isnt much to be gained.
Actually i tested in stereo mode at 20x22000uF/35V (0.44F) and then compared it with 1F and didnt notest anithing in plus. A VERY BIG difference made dual mono psu (left and right) and then an even bigger improvement made the separate psu for each input..
A star ground is a must as this amp is very sensitive.
I've been documenting for almost two years before i rised parts for building it, and found on a french site that a resonant LLC smps was compared to a dual mono, almost 0.5F classic CrC psu and the winner was the classic psu with better clarity, more micro details, better spatiality, depth and more presence.
I tested allot of trannies for this amp as outputs and you will be amazed that lower Ft trannies like mj or mjl21194/93 sounded best on this amp (and no more than 12~15Mhz Ft as i pointed in the "hiraga class a" thread). If you dont believe me try it yourself.
Cheers
Sergiu
Ps: i forgot to tell you that i like jazz, trance, vocal trance, lounge, rap, pop, country etc excluding hard rock where they smash the guitars at the end...
True, massive capacitance comes with it's own problems, and the law of diminishing returns....
Now you are the person i have been waiting for sergiu. I went through all of your threads
hahaha all the music you like is very similar to my tastes! I will try those trannies you suggest!
Would you mind if i PM you?
Thanks,
I sugest we speak here so that others will find valuable info for their construction too.
Cheers
Sergiu
From the start i can sugest that you replace and try to adapt to the pcb the 0R33, R13/R14 (from pcb photos) Koa Speer wirewound resistors with 3*1ohm/3w(minimum) metal oxide or metal film (the metal film ones are better because they have less noise , but are very expensive at 1% tolerance for buying lots for matching) instead of one. I use metal oxide here with succes. With this tweak the sound gets even better. I sugest you compare them both, but i bet that you will stick to the metal oxides instead of the wirewound...
The R15/R16 (from pcb photos)@1K8 will get hot so i sugest for lower noise and prolongued expectancy life and stability use 2*3k6/2w or 3w metal oxide or metal film (i use metal oxide). I definetly dont recomend carbon composite here. I didnt perceived any sound improvement with this tweak but i remember a friend of mine that sayed "in class a, the bigger, the better" and now, after almost two years of happy listening i'm glad that i listened to his advice. I'm on the safe side with my amp. I still have some exotic upgrades for the input at the passive componnents chapter in the future (allready buyed them) but didnt had time yet.
Cheers
Sergiu
The R15/R16 (from pcb photos)@1K8 will get hot so i sugest for lower noise and prolongued expectancy life and stability use 2*3k6/2w or 3w metal oxide or metal film (i use metal oxide). I definetly dont recomend carbon composite here. I didnt perceived any sound improvement with this tweak but i remember a friend of mine that sayed "in class a, the bigger, the better"
and now, after almost two years of happy listening i'm glad that i listened to his advice. I'm on the safe side with my amp. I still have some exotic upgrades for the input at the passive componnents chapter in the future (allready buyed them) but didnt had time yet. Cheers
Sergiu