Maybe one of you knows this by chance ; are the tweeters in the Castle Trent I and Trent II the same ?
I have a pair of Trent IIs with one blown tweeter, which I want to keep for sentimental reasons, and consider looking for a Trent I for spare parts, as they sell for less .
Also, allegedly some other Castle models of the period use the same tweeters as the Trent II , the Warwick and Richmond , see here (German , sorry ) .
I've searched long and hard, but can't find any more information on tweeter compatibility for the Castle speakers .
I have a pair of Trent IIs with one blown tweeter, which I want to keep for sentimental reasons, and consider looking for a Trent I for spare parts, as they sell for less .
Also, allegedly some other Castle models of the period use the same tweeters as the Trent II , the Warwick and Richmond , see here (German , sorry ) .
I've searched long and hard, but can't find any more information on tweeter compatibility for the Castle speakers .
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Tweeters are tweeters IMO.
You obviously want a cone tweeter here, if you like the sound.
Monacor HT-22 HT-22/8
Visaton TW70 TW 70 - 8 Ohm
You might have to bang them with a hammer if they don't fit. You might need to buy a couple of resistors (an attenuator) if they are too loud. But I think I could get them working. 🙂
You obviously want a cone tweeter here, if you like the sound.
Monacor HT-22 HT-22/8
Visaton TW70 TW 70 - 8 Ohm
You might have to bang them with a hammer if they don't fit. You might need to buy a couple of resistors (an attenuator) if they are too loud. But I think I could get them working. 🙂
Yes, I read the threads that didcussed replacement tweeters for Trents .
I might not have been perfectly clear, but I'm looking for original parts , or information on them .
I might not have been perfectly clear, but I'm looking for original parts , or information on them .
Uhm...
no. No hammer banging, no "tweeters are tweeters". New tweeters can be made to work, but tweeters are just as sensitive to being changed as other drivers, the interaction with the XO is the bigger issue since enclosure size is mostly irrelevant, but try swapping in the 96dB apex jr soft domes for a typical 91dB scan speak/vifa/seas in a given system and you'll have a very bad time.
I'd guess it IS the same tweeter. Some sort of mylar cone tweeter. I think we decided it was about 89dB efficiency here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/276924-castle-trent-2-tweeter.html
It seems the 7 Euro 91dB Monacor HT22-8 fits the 66mm cutout. Requiring a 1R/22R attenuator or thereabouts. 3W wirewounds would do.
Thanks for your advice, Steve, but I'm still looking for information on original parts .
Sorry if that's not DIY enough 😉 .
If anyone knows a different forum where vintage British speakers and other Hifi gear are being discussed, I'd much appreciate that information as well .
I can only seem to find US forums, or Naim ...
Sorry if that's not DIY enough 😉 .
If anyone knows a different forum where vintage British speakers and other Hifi gear are being discussed, I'd much appreciate that information as well .
I can only seem to find US forums, or Naim ...
Obviously I'm not winning you over to the idea that tweeters are tweeters, and you really can swap them out. Match impedance and level and it'll probably work first time. This Castle design doesn't look like Rocket Science to me. Just good choice of drivers with a simple filter.
Here's a nice little 19mm metal dome.
H0532-08 19TAFD/G
I've always liked the sound of mylar cone/dome types. And cone tweeters in general. So Castle (who are now owned by a Chinese conglomorate) have a goodish idea there. I even have a small mylar cone type, from the Sony E44. It's got a nice sound. Looks like a 5" polycone bass.
Past Masters is worth registering with. They have a good archive of information about classic vintage designs. But no Castle scans. I know a bit about B&W, KEF, Gale and Celestion as it goes. But I always get frustrated that people always want original parts. They don't make them anymore, so why bother? And old parts often have ageing issues, so they don't last long. Let's be honest, most folks sell stuff when it's broken in some way. 😕
The last picture is the Epos M12i with a metal dome tweeter. It's good, by all accounts.
Here's a nice little 19mm metal dome.
H0532-08 19TAFD/G
I've always liked the sound of mylar cone/dome types. And cone tweeters in general. So Castle (who are now owned by a Chinese conglomorate) have a goodish idea there. I even have a small mylar cone type, from the Sony E44. It's got a nice sound. Looks like a 5" polycone bass.
Past Masters is worth registering with. They have a good archive of information about classic vintage designs. But no Castle scans. I know a bit about B&W, KEF, Gale and Celestion as it goes. But I always get frustrated that people always want original parts. They don't make them anymore, so why bother? And old parts often have ageing issues, so they don't last long. Let's be honest, most folks sell stuff when it's broken in some way. 😕
The last picture is the Epos M12i with a metal dome tweeter. It's good, by all accounts.
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Good advice, Steve, much appreciated .
The Trents are a bit of a passion from back then, I don't use them at the moment , so I'm looking for a simple plug&play solution just to get them working again .
Also, resale value with non-original parts would probably be dysmal, even if the different tweeters were better .
The speakers I'm actually using are Celestion SL600s , sent off to your country for servicing and repair right now .
The Trents are a bit of a passion from back then, I don't use them at the moment , so I'm looking for a simple plug&play solution just to get them working again .
Also, resale value with non-original parts would probably be dysmal, even if the different tweeters were better .
The speakers I'm actually using are Celestion SL600s , sent off to your country for servicing and repair right now .
Horst, you're a vintage enthusiast! 😀
The plastic basses have quite a lot of internal damping, so less catastrophic breakup modes. Easy filtering even in 5-6" size. Big 8-10" paper cones aren't too bad either.
I don't know how much of this is lost in translation, but I've always liked Robin Marshall's designs for Monitor Audio, Epos, Mordaunt Short.
Robin Marshall: A Modicum of Genius Page 4 | Stereophile.com
Fine old article about the merits of cone, metal and soft dome tweeters here. And some mention of Celestion designs. I've never seen any really informed tweeter replacement projects on them. The proprietary mounting seems problematic. But I'm sure a modern metal SEAS unit would work if you can fit it.
Robin was dead right about the horrors of soft domes. Beautiful frequency response, flat load. Terrible sound. Why, well you've got to measure the right thing. It's the waterfall plot (stored energy in breakup modes...) which shows it up. Troels Gravesen's graph for a 3" soft dome ATC mid below. Goes to pieces at 4kHz.
Troels is firmly in the SB and Vifa ring radiator camp, these days. Which pins the centre of the soft dome and stops it flapping about at high frequency. They weren't around in Robin's day. You can also fit a Zobel RC network across a metal dome, which tames them a bit, because we know they get problematic above 20kHz. You might not hear it, but the amp feels it.
The plastic basses have quite a lot of internal damping, so less catastrophic breakup modes. Easy filtering even in 5-6" size. Big 8-10" paper cones aren't too bad either.
I don't know how much of this is lost in translation, but I've always liked Robin Marshall's designs for Monitor Audio, Epos, Mordaunt Short.
Robin Marshall: A Modicum of Genius Page 4 | Stereophile.com
Fine old article about the merits of cone, metal and soft dome tweeters here. And some mention of Celestion designs. I've never seen any really informed tweeter replacement projects on them. The proprietary mounting seems problematic. But I'm sure a modern metal SEAS unit would work if you can fit it.
Robin was dead right about the horrors of soft domes. Beautiful frequency response, flat load. Terrible sound. Why, well you've got to measure the right thing. It's the waterfall plot (stored energy in breakup modes...) which shows it up. Troels Gravesen's graph for a 3" soft dome ATC mid below. Goes to pieces at 4kHz.
Troels is firmly in the SB and Vifa ring radiator camp, these days. Which pins the centre of the soft dome and stops it flapping about at high frequency. They weren't around in Robin's day. You can also fit a Zobel RC network across a metal dome, which tames them a bit, because we know they get problematic above 20kHz. You might not hear it, but the amp feels it.
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Steve, now you are just playing with me ! 😉
My ignorance notwithstanding, I'll have you know that the 'vintage' Celestion SL600 is still wiping the floor with anything Epos, Harbeth and such have ever dreamed up .
😉
My ignorance notwithstanding, I'll have you know that the 'vintage' Celestion SL600 is still wiping the floor with anything Epos, Harbeth and such have ever dreamed up .
😉
What I know about the Celestion SL600, is that it is a tiny 12L closed box made of some light and rigid materials with rubbery cabinet damping applied. Quite BBC.
The crossover is a simple enough 2nd/3rd order design at 2.3kHz. The bass is a 6" plastic unit. The tweeter, a slightly larger than 1" unit made of copper, and later due to tooling problems, aluminium.
I suspect that Alan Shaw at Harbeth is applying a similar concept in his designs. If I was looking for modern units along the same lines, I might go to SEAS.
H1571-08 U18RNX/P
H1212-06 27TBFC/G
And you've given me an idea of building a SEAS Idunn style project in a small closed box, so many thanks.
http://www.seas.no/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=380:idunn&catid=66:seas-diy-kits&Itemid=365
Ignorance is often dispelled by keeping your eyes open and unbiased, living in the present moment, and most important, being willing to do a bit of work and investigation. This is why a hobby is good. And Music and Loudspeaker engineering keeps me interested. Good luck with your tweeter. Tell me how you get on. 😀
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