Hi.I found these drivers on taobao com. Do you think they worth the money ? Does anyone have experience with them?
Here the drivers
https://world.taobao.com/item/528908373538.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.HxRUd3#detail
https://world.taobao.com/item/531656628653.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.MLY787#detail
Best regards
Here the drivers
https://world.taobao.com/item/528908373538.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.HxRUd3#detail
https://world.taobao.com/item/531656628653.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.MLY787#detail
Best regards
Hadn't seen the Gen 2 of these - which appear to have adopted the lighter weight basket assemblies of the Pluvia series, so until Mark or crew can confirm this is an official product, one is left to ponder their authenticity, and to wonder what other changes to the drive trains may have been made .
I've owned a pair of the MAOP7 -now "Gen1 - for several years, and while they cost more than twice the Canadian reseller's current price for stock A7.3, they were worth it to me. I've not heard a MAOP10, but have communicated with someone who has and whose opinion I quite trust - I believe his opinion of them is the same. Not all who've heard them would agree on either the improved performance or value.
Of course, I was fortunate enough to be able to amortize that price into the savings in a major kitchen / living room reno by doing most the work myself, so the $500 + was less than the pot lights which I spent over 2 days crawling around in a 40C degree attic installing.
I've owned a pair of the MAOP7 -now "Gen1 - for several years, and while they cost more than twice the Canadian reseller's current price for stock A7.3, they were worth it to me. I've not heard a MAOP10, but have communicated with someone who has and whose opinion I quite trust - I believe his opinion of them is the same. Not all who've heard them would agree on either the improved performance or value.
Of course, I was fortunate enough to be able to amortize that price into the savings in a major kitchen / living room reno by doing most the work myself, so the $500 + was less than the pot lights which I spent over 2 days crawling around in a 40C degree attic installing.
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Chris,
Those are the same baskets. Prices look to be in-line (if not a bit less than expected). If these are real they are a very good driver. 99.9 % of the very limited production goes to Japan, so these ar ein the right place.
dave
Those are the same baskets. Prices look to be in-line (if not a bit less than expected). If these are real they are a very good driver. 99.9 % of the very limited production goes to Japan, so these ar ein the right place.
dave
Here is another link to the "official" Markaudio store in Taobao. I believe they a authentic as those are assembled in china with the MAOP cone. There is a photo with Mark holding a MAOP with 5 screw holes while the 1st gen has only 4 screw holes. My guess is they probably now have enough production capability for the Japanese cone to be able to sell the rest of the world.
https://world.taobao.com/item/528636314164.htm?spm=a312a.7700714.0.0.dfSoDk#detail
That said, I had the 1st gen of the MAOP7 (4 screws on frame vs 2nd gen 5 screws) and I just got a Fostex FE108 SOL. For my taste, I like the FE108 SOL a bit better for the mid and high.
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It is possible to get them outside of China although there has never been a market for them. It's a very different market there and most of the buyers are keeping them on shelves as collectors items. The factory produce very small numbers which are sold to an already waiting list of customers who have signed up for a pair already. That said they do try and keep a couple of pairs on the shelf in case any other dealers get an enquiry from customers in other locations. Indeed I just imported a pair of MAOP 10 drivers for one of my UK customers. They come with individual electrical and acoustical measurements from the anechoic chamber and are very closely matched pairs.
Stefan
Stefan
I was given to understand that the production processes for the cones had a high mortality rate, which in combination with Mark's stringent QC standards contributes to the cost.
There are certainly examples of very limited production full range drivers priced much higher.
I never could quite wrap my head around the "collector" mind-set, what the frack is the point of not using / enjoying the item? This was a big thing back in the late 70s early 80's with a buddy of mine who collected Japanese Half-Speed remasters of mostly rock albums which sat unopened in boxes until after he passed away.
There are certainly examples of very limited production full range drivers priced much higher.
I never could quite wrap my head around the "collector" mind-set, what the frack is the point of not using / enjoying the item? This was a big thing back in the late 70s early 80's with a buddy of mine who collected Japanese Half-Speed remasters of mostly rock albums which sat unopened in boxes until after he passed away.
Yes a very high mortality rate for the cones, the rest of the driver is the same though.
The Magnetic arc oxidization process is done at extremely high temperature in a flux bath that is prone to differential temperatures (hot/cold spots) which warp the cones and although I don't think the process in itself it crazy expensive it does ruin more cones than it keeps. Add that to the individual attention and that is where the prices comes from.
I've never understood the collector thing either. I've got an uncle who collect what to him are important agricultural heritage, to everyone else it's piles of rust one of is will have to sort out when he shuffles off.
Next time I import a pallet I might get a couple of each in stock. For what it's worth in the UK by the time I got them imported they were £600 to my customer Inc VAT and delivery.
The Magnetic arc oxidization process is done at extremely high temperature in a flux bath that is prone to differential temperatures (hot/cold spots) which warp the cones and although I don't think the process in itself it crazy expensive it does ruin more cones than it keeps. Add that to the individual attention and that is where the prices comes from.
I've never understood the collector thing either. I've got an uncle who collect what to him are important agricultural heritage, to everyone else it's piles of rust one of is will have to sort out when he shuffles off.
Next time I import a pallet I might get a couple of each in stock. For what it's worth in the UK by the time I got them imported they were £600 to my customer Inc VAT and delivery.
Stefan - for me the bizarre collector thing relates to the "NIB" new in box syndrome - to the extreme of "devaluation" if original factory seal is broken, even if the item is never removed from packaging, or heaven forbid, used / played.
Wouldn't hurt to bring in a pair or two of the MAOPs - but only if you actually use them, and get a chance for a few folks to hear them in appropriate enclosures. 😉
I know for sure the 7 works well in the FH3, and I'd assume the 10 acquits itself equally well in the FHXL, and other design(s) to which Dr Lindgren could attest.
By the way, very tasty work on your flat-pack kits.
Wouldn't hurt to bring in a pair or two of the MAOPs - but only if you actually use them, and get a chance for a few folks to hear them in appropriate enclosures. 😉
I know for sure the 7 works well in the FH3, and I'd assume the 10 acquits itself equally well in the FHXL, and other design(s) to which Dr Lindgren could attest.
By the way, very tasty work on your flat-pack kits.
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You are assuming the production method/rate never improved over the years. This I doubt, I don't think Japan/China will be satisfied with a low production rate for that market price . If you see the item listed in the Chinese market in Taobao, I am pretty sure there is not just a few pair of speaker available for sale.
While Mark health is not in top form, he is still around and his partner is taking care most of the business anyways. I am sure there'll be more of those cones continuously coming out of the production line.
You don't collect something that has a good chance of increasing production. That's just my guess.
Hey Chuck, I'm not assuming anything, I'm the UK/EU distributor and work quite closely with Mark so the stories about production are straight from the horse's mouth so to speak. Yes Mark is not well at the moment but is still working hard but isn't as involved in actual production as he once was no.
Thanks for the flat pack kit compliment 😀 Means a lot from you.
Yeah Scott says the MAOP 10 work fine in the FHXL as basically they are the same driver electrically, I'd expect then to work in other Alpair 10 alignments as well, same goes for the MAOP 7 I'd have thought.
Stefan
As Stefan notes, he is the UK distributor so he is speaking from knowledge, not assumption. I can confirm what he said, as I have also worked with Mark.
The MAOP drivers are produced in very small batches, primarily for the Japanese market. There is no intention or desire to produce them in larger numbers, let alone continuously. The cones cost approximately 9 x that of the standard unit and have roughly a 50% reject rate which is unlikely to improve due to the nature of the microarc oxidation process. Each driver is individually measured in their anechoic chamber and pair matched based on that data to within, as I recall, 0.5% tolerance. This is not practical for standard production units, which MA build to a (again, as I recall) +/- 2% tolerance. Each batch of MAOP drivers is typically sold out in advance of production. Sadly, many are never used but sit in boxes as collector pieces. Some even get Mark to sign the cone itself (!) when he visits Japan. To each their own I suppose.
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The MAOP 7 is derived from the current generation Alpair 7. The 10, as I recall, is actually something of a hybrid as it uses elements of the current unit with a few from the previous gen.2 so it has a touch more LF extension than the current standard production model. Both will go fine in the respective Frugel-horn designs.
Last I heard Mark sold most of his shares due to health and not in control of the company. Whatever the original intention were, in my opinion, business is business. As for sold out in advance of production, the previous owner of my sold Alpair7 MAOP didn't have to wait too long to get his pair.
I see 3 Taobao shops listing the MAOP drivers while before there was none. I can't imagine if they plan to sell those in the Chinese market they would not at the very least improve their production rate, unless, of cause they are selling the substandard driver (god forbid!)
Just a brief thought on this - the thread title could imply that the MAOP is a post production modification / tweak - which is definitely not the case.
As for the business model / intended market / production volumes for these very special drivers, as well as Mark's continuing role in both Mark Audio and SOTA, absent an "authorized press release", I think all is conjecture.
As for the business model / intended market / production volumes for these very special drivers, as well as Mark's continuing role in both Mark Audio and SOTA, absent an "authorized press release", I think all is conjecture.
Mark does not own Mark Audio. However, the new owners are perfectly content to continue in the same manner as before, and Mark designs the drivers, in collaboration with the same small team, just as it has always been.
Business may be business, but businesses differ, and your opinion regarding the production of MAOP drivers appears to be opinion only, rather than fact. The facts regarding the MAOP drivers have been stated by Stefan, Chris and myself, and we are speaking from actual knowledge.
That's good to hear. He was evidently quite fortunate; this is not always the case.
Yes, that can happen shortly after a batch is produced. The batches are, as you are presumably aware, sold to dealers who order them, and some individuals who express an interest direct. The dealers, as has been the way of commerce since time immemorial, then sell them. Usually they have a backlog of x number of orders; if there are any extras that are not pre-sold, they are then listed for sale. Sometimes there are, sometimes there aren't.
You appear to be assuming that Mark Audio have the time, capacity and finances to devote to making these drivers continuous production items. That is not the case. Likewise, they produce the standard units for the same reason the majority of companies produce various products at various price ranges. They have no wish to sell expensive drivers only. The MAOP units are limited edition batches that are their equivalent to, for example, Fostex's ES-R models. That is, as they say, 'it'.
Being somewhat ignorant of the acronym means I need to ask a question. What does MAOP stand for? Mark Audio O______ P______?
It is, i believe, an acronym for the bombardment process these go thru to alter the 1st couple of layers of molecules on the surface of the cone.
dave
dave
Correct. Sometimes called plasma electrolytic oxidation. Essentially it converts the surface layer of the substrate into the oxide of the base material. Very interesting process actually. You end up with an extremely hard modified crystalline surface, which has many applications in industry etc. In the case of the driver cones, since we are dealing with resonant systems it alters the behaviour somewhat in terms of the energy transmission & conversion.
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