Most of the commercial amps I see using those modules seem to just have the XLR inputs connected directly to the inputs on the amp:
That seems to be the Amphion amplifier, using Anaview power modules. No input buffer.
Gato Audio and Jeff Rowland (to name a few) use Pascal modules and include buffers (Jeff Rowland's buffer is 100% discrete).
I can imagine it doesn't if you are using a sound blaster sound card as a measurement device.
A VP7723D can check noise down to -130dB. A modified ASUS Xonar STX sound card even lower still. More than enough for audio work. An ESI Juli@ XTe sound card and a Samuel Groner ultra low noise measurement pre-amp can easily measure the noise of a 1K resistor (-168dBV) and smaller.
BTW whenever you post that chart you really ought to provide the scale with which the dB are referenced to, as well as the test conducted and the conditions therein. It's rather meaningless as is.
I have been using the NC500's amps now for a number of weeks. Colin has been a true gent - sorted an issue I had out promptly and also provided the Hypex buffer boards after my original purchase.
Having had a few weeks to listen, I actually preffer the Hypex buffer boards (for my taste). Catching up on this thread, I am suprised people do not agree with DSP, but I use Accourate along with physical means to manage how my room influences the sound. Utilising Accourate allows me to play with the frequency curve how I see fit, so I can listen to music in the way I prefer.
The Sonic Imagery's op-amps are excellent, but they do colour the sound. I aspire to always look for the smoothest (non-silibance/irratating) sound that is transparent, neutral and allows as much detail through as possible (sonic imagery do everything but neutrality). Then use DSP at the source to play around. As a millenial, my music taste is extremely varied and my theory to why my preference goes against the grain.
I have replaced the regulators in the stock board, which improved things (tried 3 so far), however I didn't fall off my sofa in shock and awe. I am spending a lot of time in New York at the moment with limited time, but I do intend to try running my system without a buffer.
Having had the Phison PD2 for near on a month, I do understand why Bavmike keeps raving on about it. Out of the 7-8 dacs I have owned in the last 5 years - it is producing the best sound I have ever heard. That is including my trip to Munich Hi-end show this year. Sonny has outdone himself, unfortunately due to travelling - not many friends have had a chance to listen to it. Out of the four people who have went away impressed. *Forgot to mention - I have heard close to 20 dacs in my system for a duration from 1 hour to a few days.
Having had a few weeks to listen, I actually preffer the Hypex buffer boards (for my taste). Catching up on this thread, I am suprised people do not agree with DSP, but I use Accourate along with physical means to manage how my room influences the sound. Utilising Accourate allows me to play with the frequency curve how I see fit, so I can listen to music in the way I prefer.
The Sonic Imagery's op-amps are excellent, but they do colour the sound. I aspire to always look for the smoothest (non-silibance/irratating) sound that is transparent, neutral and allows as much detail through as possible (sonic imagery do everything but neutrality). Then use DSP at the source to play around. As a millenial, my music taste is extremely varied and my theory to why my preference goes against the grain.
I have replaced the regulators in the stock board, which improved things (tried 3 so far), however I didn't fall off my sofa in shock and awe. I am spending a lot of time in New York at the moment with limited time, but I do intend to try running my system without a buffer.
Having had the Phison PD2 for near on a month, I do understand why Bavmike keeps raving on about it. Out of the 7-8 dacs I have owned in the last 5 years - it is producing the best sound I have ever heard. That is including my trip to Munich Hi-end show this year. Sonny has outdone himself, unfortunately due to travelling - not many friends have had a chance to listen to it. Out of the four people who have went away impressed. *Forgot to mention - I have heard close to 20 dacs in my system for a duration from 1 hour to a few days.
Last edited:
That hasn't been my experience with the Sonic imagery 994's. Measurements of the input board you have may reveal these coloration's. Or try putting a dip8 LM4562 in the Nord input board and see if it sounds different from the Hypex one.
Thanks for your feedback. May I ask a few questions?
1 - Do you think you loose any resolution/detail at any frequency, using the Nord buffer?
2 - When you say Nord buffer do everything but neutrality, can you further explain the difference with Hypex buffer?
3 - I'm not against DSP at all, but I'm not sure it can replace or compensate completely an incorrect design. This also applies to room correction, DSP helps but cant fix everything, is a complement to acoustic treatment. Do you think that the "tonal character" you found in the Nord buffer, could be easily simulated with DSP?
4 - Did you have the change to try a Benchmark DAC2 in your system with the Nord amp? If not, any "professional" grade DACs using Sabre chip?
Thanks
Sebastian
Of course you can
Answers above. Woops - I had an Auralic Vega too! I would put that in the same category as the others though.
Strong name by the way.
Last edited:
When you charge over $10000 for $200 worth of amp modules in a fancy case you better include a discrete buffer
To be honest, I cannot be bothered. I bought these as I wanted to see how they compare to the NC400's I used to have. They sound pretty damn good as they are (Nord buffers and Stock buffers) and better a lot out there at a higher price. I will be moving in new amps in the next couple of months (Sonny), once I am prepared to make that investment.
The Nord's were always intended to go upstairs into my Study as their compact size is perfect to hide away and offer excellent fidelity.
Did you bypass the opamp and go direct from the PD2 yet? That's by far the best way.
No I was hoping to do it last weekend, but had to travel last minute.
I have this weekend clear to do the switch among some other modifications to my hi-fi, quite excited to see what it sounds like. One of the chaps that came over bought his Benchmark ABH2 and it was clear the PD2 output stage was prominent through both amplifiers. We both were really enjoying what we were hearing through both amps and helped me validate the PD2 is a significant reason to why I'm so happy with the sound at the moment.
Give it a shot. Both boards regardless of opamp will sound broken after you hear this. But if you are going to use the Hypex OEM board with buffer bypass for this, I suggest upgrading the 24 cent voltage regulators with the Hypex HxR's. Those regs power parts of the NC-500's as well and make a huge difference.
Edit: Re-read your last post and seen you already replaced the regulators. Anyways when the hypex HxR's don't have to drive the opamps, their performance seems to improve quite a bit. I noticed a bigger difference between the regulators with the boards in bypass mode.
Last edited:
Give it a shot. Both boards regardless of opamp will sound broken after you hear this. But if you are going to use the Hypex OEM board with buffer bypass for this, I suggest upgrading the 24 cent voltage regulators with the Hypex HxR's. Those regs power parts of the NC-500's as well and make a huge difference.
Edit: Re-read your last post and seen you already replaced the regulators. Anyways when the hypex HxR's don't have to drive the opamps, their performance seems to improve quite a bit. I noticed a bigger difference between the regulators with the boards in bypass mode.
Well I did it and listening now. You were right on the Phison, so I thought why not do it now. Too early to comment but sounding very good. With DSD and my accourate filters, I am pretty close to top of the volume range, but it looks like I have enough for the highest dynamic range songs for it to become uncomfortable listening levels.
I have always had a little hiss with either the buffer boards, I have to put my ear next to the tweeter to hear it. It is dead silent now - good sign.
Sebastian - I had a quick 45 minute listen again to the Sonic Imagery boards, there is no detail loss. It is a bit darker and warmer, the mid is also slightly recessed. I think it depends on your preference.
They aren't the ideal boards for the task, but much better than the Hypex OEM board with LM4562 in the path.
What you describe about the SIL-994's are definately not the same attribute's I've found with them in my experience. This is why you should pop a DIP8 LM4562 in the Nord board and compare with the Hypex board. Without a solid reference it's inaccurate to pin this characteristic on the SIL 994's themselves.
Here it will set you back 1.98 GBP's
http://uk.farnell.com/texas-instrum...goryNameResp=All+Categories&iscrfnonsku=false
Last edited:
Of course you can
2 - When you say Nord buffer do everything but neutrality, can you further explain the difference with Hypex buffer?
The sound is very easy to distinguish, even my girlfriend knew I had changed something when she arrived home. It is a darker and meatier sound, might be good for lean speakers that don't dig deep or in your face tweeters. From what I remember that doesn't mean it reduces details away from the higher frequencies but I will confirm this evening. Again this is personal preference.
I'm currently using Dynaudio Confidence C1 Platinum speakers, not sure a darker and meatier sound from the Nord buffer would do any benefit. I'm attracted to the option of driving the NC500 power modules directly from my DAC (I'm doing this right now, with anaview amplifiers)
3 - I'm not against DSP at all, but I'm not sure it can replace or compensate completely an incorrect design. This also applies to room correction, DSP helps but cant fix everything, is a complement to acoustic treatment. Do you think that the "tonal character" you found in the Nord buffer, could be easily simulated with DSP?
I'd imagine you would be at it for a long time and ultimately no, but you could get close. Best bet is just to build a neutral system whilst being considerate of objective measurements, then play around till your comfortable. DSP allows you to change your sound system without further investment and it can be free depending how you do it. I wouldn't establish a benchmark or you might miss the opportunity to produce a set-up which you would of ultimately preferred to a specific op-amp.
Do you think that recalibrating the system, using the Nord buffers instead of the Hypex ones, would get you to the same end result? How did you compare both buffers? Did you disabled the DSP for the test?
4 - Did you have the change to try a Benchmark DAC2 in your system with the Nord amp? If not, any "professional" grade DACs using Sabre chip?
I have heard that is a great DAC but unfortunately not. I have had three ESS 9018 DAC's, Oppo HA-1, Audiolab M-Dac and a Weiss Dac 202. I thought they were okay, but not great. I still have the Audiolab somewhere in the house, unused for atleast 2-3 years.
I'm not sure if any of those DACs can be comparable to the Benchmark DAC2, even if they do have the Sabre chip. What, in your opinion, is the sound difference between those DACs and your Phison?
Woops - I had an Auralic Vega too! I would put that in the same category as the others though.
Thanks!
Sebastian
Strong name by the way.
Bypassing the buffer, you are lowering the noise floor by 14 dB. If the preamp is strong enough to drive the NC500 directly, this is a very good option to try.
Do you think that by changing the buffers the soundstage got deeper? Also, I would like to know if by doing this change the soundstage starts closer or neared to the listening position.
Sebastian
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.