The thread is in the vendors forum where it belongs. Nit everyone here follows the scientific method and that's fair enough, they aren't electronics engineers after all, just looking for sound that pleases them and enjoying the journey.
I am assuming a bunch of messages in this thread will be deleted by the moderators, as we seem to have resorted to pure name calling, but...
I think it would be good to have a feature like the Google Mail Goggles "preventing posting when drunk" feature here too.
I suggest you go back and look at the Hypex Ncore thread again, and tell me that I really haven't contributed anything. After that you could tell us what you have contributed.
This is a vendor thread, so any contributions we provide are only picked up if the vendor chooses to do so.
As to "hunting subjective people", it is regrettable if you take anything that questions your beliefs as an attack, but it might be good to remember that we are discussing products of technology. Technology is based on science, and science, in turn, is based on an open, unrestricted exchange of information based on evidence. Questioning seemingly unsupported claims is an essential part of the scientific method. Have you ever been to a PhD dissertation examination? One has to be able to separate a fact-based discussion about (sometimes controversial) subjects from personal attacks. Resorting to "Because I say so - and anyway, your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries" might have worked when you were 5 years old, but is not really advancing any sort of rational debate.
I think it would be good to have a feature like the Google Mail Goggles "preventing posting when drunk" feature here too.
I suggest you go back and look at the Hypex Ncore thread again, and tell me that I really haven't contributed anything. After that you could tell us what you have contributed.
This is a vendor thread, so any contributions we provide are only picked up if the vendor chooses to do so.
As to "hunting subjective people", it is regrettable if you take anything that questions your beliefs as an attack, but it might be good to remember that we are discussing products of technology. Technology is based on science, and science, in turn, is based on an open, unrestricted exchange of information based on evidence. Questioning seemingly unsupported claims is an essential part of the scientific method. Have you ever been to a PhD dissertation examination? One has to be able to separate a fact-based discussion about (sometimes controversial) subjects from personal attacks. Resorting to "Because I say so - and anyway, your mother was a hamster and your father smelt of elderberries" might have worked when you were 5 years old, but is not really advancing any sort of rational debate.
Absolutely. There is nothing wrong with subjective opinions when stated as such ("to me, the top end sounds a bit thin"), but when making claims or recommendations "brand X wire is the best because it is higher purity copper", then it should be OK for those claims and recommendations to be questioned.
Oh boy...
I'm all for listening tests and listening opinions. I just don't think people are very honest with them and I don't think people are honest enough about things like confirmation bias. Most (but not all) people offering listening feedback are either in the business of selling copy (be it paper or digital) and hence rely on being in the good graces of the manufacturers they review or are people who have just spent money acquiring the product. When people start saying they can hear the difference between 99.95% and 99.99% pure copper in the wiring of their amp I call foul. That's all.
Lest we forget: sound engineering brought us the Ncore amps to begin with and only engineering tests will draw some conclusion to the never-ending debate about Boggit's Rev B versus Rev C input boards. Engineering advice led to the revision. Some of that engineering advice could be debated, but no one here seems to have the capacity to do so which is surprising in a DIYaudio.com thread. There's still other advice which hasn't yet been implemented. (Not that it has to be.)
I'm all for listening tests and listening opinions. I just don't think people are very honest with them and I don't think people are honest enough about things like confirmation bias. Most (but not all) people offering listening feedback are either in the business of selling copy (be it paper or digital) and hence rely on being in the good graces of the manufacturers they review or are people who have just spent money acquiring the product. When people start saying they can hear the difference between 99.95% and 99.99% pure copper in the wiring of their amp I call foul. That's all.
Lest we forget: sound engineering brought us the Ncore amps to begin with and only engineering tests will draw some conclusion to the never-ending debate about Boggit's Rev B versus Rev C input boards. Engineering advice led to the revision. Some of that engineering advice could be debated, but no one here seems to have the capacity to do so which is surprising in a DIYaudio.com thread. There's still other advice which hasn't yet been implemented. (Not that it has to be.)
Indeed. Others actually look at evidence.
And the 5 senses are all you need to choose what you like, but not for finding out anything that can usefully be generalized beyond your own preferences. All they tell you is what *you* like.
Seems a lot of people actually refuse to acknowledge that confirmation bias could affect listening.
I always consider it an useful exercise to take a look around you and try to imagine how your life would look like if humans relied purely on their 5 senses. We would live in mud huts (even carpenters use measures and right angles instead of relying on "measuring by eye"), and we would have no cars, no roads, no electricity, no running water - and would probably have died of some nasty but easily preventable disease.
Yes, seems it is only scientists and engineers who actually do blind tests. But I find it even funnier that the ones decrying blind tests rarely acknowledge confirmation bias might be an issue at all.
Maybe more people should take the time to read the classic Sean Olive / Floyd Toole 1994 paper "Hearing is Believing vs. Believing is Hearing: Blind vs. Sighted Listening Tests, and Other Interesting Things".
For those without access to AES papers, Sean Olive has a nice synopsis here.
But then again, Sean Olive is just Director of Acoustic Research, and Floyd Toole was (until his retirement) Corporate Vice President of Acoustical Engineering at Harman International. But I guess the products from JBL, Infinity, Harman/Kardon, Mark Levinson Revel, AKG and Soundcraft all stink, so what do those old dudes think they know, anyway?
Absolutely. Which is why subjective impressions are a rather poor measure of objective quality. A crappy transistor radio can sound subjectively great if you are in the right mindset.
So unless you are there to see a tree fall in the forest, it didn't exist at all?
In that case I suggest you stop spending any more money on your audio gear, and go smoke a joint instead. 🙂
Indeed. Which is why it is imperative to not just take your own beliefs as truth, but instead question them, and verify them based on external evidence. It is all too easy to just see and hear what you already believe.
To me, no point questioning & grilling & arguing & ...........
There are always differences in how one see the world - and there is no right or wrong way.
Either you want to see before believe
Or believe and you will see (or should I say is hear here).
It is still a hobbies sites - do we really need to (or necessary to) questions & questions every bit & pieces until .................. these unhappiness happen ??
There are always differences in how one see the world - and there is no right or wrong way.
Either you want to see before believe
Or believe and you will see (or should I say is hear here).
It is still a hobbies sites - do we really need to (or necessary to) questions & questions every bit & pieces until .................. these unhappiness happen ??
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That is true for a lot of things, but not others. Stating "2 + 2 = 5" is not a different way to see the world - it is simply wrong.
That is the different between theology and faith
Which one is "2 + 2 =5"? Theology or faith? 🙂
I am of course aware of the fact that 2 + 2 equals 5 for sufficiently large values of 2. 🙂
Precisely 😉 All our current theories tried to fixed & build-up everything together so as to make sense. Those unable to fix into what that already had been built is consider exception or outlier and park one side ................. until a person come along & build-up another theory and the whole cycle repeat itself again.
OK enough of all these non-related topics, back to NC500 Nord One 😀
Back to biz again with new buffer board & Opamp - I assume ?
Same goes to another guy over in Spain - more expensive that Nord One, but seem to be using full Alu block + machining type of casing. Also seem to have own buffer design + the new opamp.
OK enough of all these non-related topics, back to NC500 Nord One 😀
Back to biz again with new buffer board & Opamp - I assume ?
Same goes to another guy over in Spain - more expensive that Nord One, but seem to be using full Alu block + machining type of casing. Also seem to have own buffer design + the new opamp.
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Indeed. That is how science is more than just "another belief system" - it is a self-correcting mechanism that improves our understanding of nature by questioning our assumptions. But we also have to remember that there is an infinite amount of theories out there, and only the ones supported by evidence are adopted. Before we declare any finding an outlier, we first have to verify it is actually real, and not explainable by current theories.