But remember what I said, if it does get exited full force at 17 Hz, I would run out of excursion and amplifier power fast! This rarely happens in music, More chance of it happening in movie play back. The measurements at 85 dB were no problem though, at the listening position. But I don't have 20 dB headroom above that!
Thank you for that.
I'm about to buy some land and, due to budget constraints, self-build my home.
I think I might have at go at building your system (with your permission) but using a brick or concrete block enclosure to theoretically "tighten" the sound.
I'll get back to you once I've bought the land and designed the house.
Thanks for an enthralling thread!
I'm about to buy some land and, due to budget constraints, self-build my home.
I think I might have at go at building your system (with your permission) but using a brick or concrete block enclosure to theoretically "tighten" the sound.
I'll get back to you once I've bought the land and designed the house.
Thanks for an enthralling thread!
I say go for it! Don't forget to check out ra7's corner array:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/284371-corner-floor-ceiling-line-array-using-vifa-tc9.html
Corner placement will help avoid early reflections and keep the bass up. If you're planning on no crossovers like me be sure to reserve just above 2 liter volume for each driver. Fill it with a combination of fiberglass insulation (or something similar) and real wool felt. Figure out a recipe with a test box and impedance tests and shoot for a clean impedance plot.
I'd also recommend thinking about adding ambience channels if you're building a room from the ground up. Definitely worth it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/284371-corner-floor-ceiling-line-array-using-vifa-tc9.html
Corner placement will help avoid early reflections and keep the bass up. If you're planning on no crossovers like me be sure to reserve just above 2 liter volume for each driver. Fill it with a combination of fiberglass insulation (or something similar) and real wool felt. Figure out a recipe with a test box and impedance tests and shoot for a clean impedance plot.
I'd also recommend thinking about adding ambience channels if you're building a room from the ground up. Definitely worth it.
Before guessing a lot about room acoustics and human perception, why don't you build some Constant Beamwidth Transducers before in order to have some standardized tools? I do not mean Don Keele's quite impractical convex frequency-independantly-shaded arrays. But strait ones shaded with first-order filters such as ones built half a century ago by someone, whose name i cannot find anymore in the internet, and now by JBL as CBT50, 100 and 200.
Here, half a century ago, shading, then called tapering, was already suggested for strait arrays. With first order-filters the shading becomes frequency-dependant, eliminating the need for tiny drivers and raising loading of outer drivers. Since the geometrical arrangement is symmetrical such as in D'Apollito, the beam is not tilted as in odd-orderly-filtered geometrically-asymmetrical setups but strait.
Here, half a century ago, shading, then called tapering, was already suggested for strait arrays. With first order-filters the shading becomes frequency-dependant, eliminating the need for tiny drivers and raising loading of outer drivers. Since the geometrical arrangement is symmetrical such as in D'Apollito, the beam is not tilted as in odd-orderly-filtered geometrically-asymmetrical setups but strait.
Wow, just wow.
This guy comes in at page 217, at the 2165th post of this thread, obviously without having read anything in this thread, dismisses everything you have published so far, and tells you to build something else.
Talk about disrespectful and conceited.
Nice of you, wesayso, to stay civilized!
Perceval, I'm having too much fun on Pano's Phantom Center thread to be put down. 
We are chasing down the eyebrows in stereo perception...
And so far it works... lots more testing today!
We are chasing down the eyebrows in stereo perception...
And so far it works... lots more testing today!
Hi, i have read the first page and the last four. Wesayso is hosting a discussion on early reflections and their hear- and apprechiability, altho the electroacoustic tools, which he has used, are most imperfect. He hears a simple line array in the nearfield, tho the nearfield of a simple line array is a comb filter. This is like trying to understand the colour mood of Breughel's Fall Of Ikarus in the dim light of a small chandle. The mathematical ideas have been sitting there for half a century, pick them up and build some proper now!
Grasso, maybe one day you will realize the importance of the impulse measurement and all of it's quirks. That way you'd understand that due to the use of FIR filters (and room treatment) this line array still suffers from comb filtering, but not even half as much as you think right now. The data is all here in the thread, not just on the last four pages though.
I don't think you have any clue about the subject we were discussing. As that particular subject had absolutely nothing to do with the array behavior.
Feel free to read up in this thread before making any more blank statements. Your dislike for FIR filters wont help here though.
What is it exactly, that made you post on this thread? If you don't like straight line arrays, albeit heavily processed in my case, why post here? This thread is mostly about those, you know... most of the 217 pages anyway...
So far you're not being very persuasive with your arguments. Once you start posting IR's, STEP and early waterfall plots on your own thread you might get my attention. But what you're doing here won't make me change my mind. You're just blowing hot air as far as I'm concerned. As you have done on other threads as well, without a firm grasp of what it is you're criticizing.
I'll go on now, listening to my freshly implemented FIR phase shuffler listening to my imperfect comb filter bugged response as seen here:
Horrible right? A 1/12 octave smoothed measurement at the listening position of separate left and right channel to show the balance...
(as I type this my hairs start to raise from: Rodrigo y Gabriella - Logos)
I don't think you have any clue about the subject we were discussing. As that particular subject had absolutely nothing to do with the array behavior.
Feel free to read up in this thread before making any more blank statements. Your dislike for FIR filters wont help here though.
What is it exactly, that made you post on this thread? If you don't like straight line arrays, albeit heavily processed in my case, why post here? This thread is mostly about those, you know... most of the 217 pages anyway...
So far you're not being very persuasive with your arguments. Once you start posting IR's, STEP and early waterfall plots on your own thread you might get my attention. But what you're doing here won't make me change my mind. You're just blowing hot air as far as I'm concerned. As you have done on other threads as well, without a firm grasp of what it is you're criticizing.
I'll go on now, listening to my freshly implemented FIR phase shuffler listening to my imperfect comb filter bugged response as seen here:
Horrible right? A 1/12 octave smoothed measurement at the listening position of separate left and right channel to show the balance...
(as I type this my hairs start to raise from: Rodrigo y Gabriella - Logos
)
I believe we have found ourselves a genuine troll.
Grasso, you seem very good at telling people. How about you build your dream line arrays the way you think it should be done, and share your findings in this forum?
Then, you'll have something to back up your claims.
Otherwise, you are just trolling.
This will be my last reply to your futile attempts. No need to clutter this otherwise amazing thread with hot air, as wesayso mentioned.
Grasso, you seem very good at telling people. How about you build your dream line arrays the way you think it should be done, and share your findings in this forum?
Then, you'll have something to back up your claims.
Otherwise, you are just trolling.
This will be my last reply to your futile attempts. No need to clutter this otherwise amazing thread with hot air, as wesayso mentioned.
He has done so, Perceval... not a line array but his ideal speaker: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/288140-krassollito-multi-way-loudspeakers-done-right.html
The discussion is entertaining and gives a clear picture of the knowledge of our guest here... As I said, more is needed to sway me.
The discussion is entertaining and gives a clear picture of the knowledge of our guest here... As I said, more is needed to sway me.
Thou have equalized the power response at a certain listening position, what is meaningless here. Here we are not interested in power but in sound pressure level within a certain radiation angle, say in beaming. The nearfield response of a simple line array is not just a comb filter but an infinity of comb filters, one for each position and differing remarkedly from one another. Even if thou equalize the power or any other integral at thy listening position, the complete time response is still far off. All thou have is a computer, but All You Need Is Love.
It seems you too are celebrating Shakespeare's birthday (lol).
You keep guessing, even though this thread is filled with a lot of info that would/could make you rethink your blank statements. Now I've never put anyone on ignore, but you might be my first to make that list. Keep smoking that stuff you use... I'll enjoy the fruits of my labor, with love I might add...
##############################################################################
Disclaimer: For the other people reading this thread, this is not my normal way of responding to anyone, but I've run into this character before. I know it's pointless to try and have a discussion with him. He's good at repeating himself but not as good at reading. I get it that he's in love with his own creation, but why advertise/invade on other peoples threads. What I've tried to do here is be honest about my journey to better sound. I've shared both successes and failures and learned a lot in the process. The last thing I need is someone that fails to grasp anything except his own believes tell me what I should do while ignoring simple requests. Hopefully we will continue with our regular scheduled program soon. My excuses for this disruption.
You keep guessing, even though this thread is filled with a lot of info that would/could make you rethink your blank statements. Now I've never put anyone on ignore, but you might be my first to make that list. Keep smoking that stuff you use... I'll enjoy the fruits of my labor, with love I might add...
##############################################################################
Disclaimer: For the other people reading this thread, this is not my normal way of responding to anyone, but I've run into this character before. I know it's pointless to try and have a discussion with him. He's good at repeating himself but not as good at reading. I get it that he's in love with his own creation, but why advertise/invade on other peoples threads. What I've tried to do here is be honest about my journey to better sound. I've shared both successes and failures and learned a lot in the process. The last thing I need is someone that fails to grasp anything except his own believes tell me what I should do while ignoring simple requests. Hopefully we will continue with our regular scheduled program soon. My excuses for this disruption.
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I am very sorry for Krasso when I look at his design. You can't use a d'Appolito design on its side because of lobing.
OMG... that thread was so sad and pathetic...At first I thought "here's something we don't see everyday!" ... build quality was a bit off, but gave him the benefit of the doubt... in the middle I was laughing... at the end, I was just shaking my head.
Yep, time to move on. There is a nice little option within this forum's setup under the tab "User CP". There is an "ignore" list. I will be adding our latest troll to it. Life's too short. No time for that kind of member.
Grasso, maybe one day you will realize the importance of the impulse measurement and all of it's quirks. That way you'd understand that due to the use of FIR filters (and room treatment) this line array still suffers from comb filtering, but not even half as much as you think right now. The data is all here in the thread, not just on the last four pages though.
I don't think you have any clue about the subject we were discussing. As that particular subject had absolutely nothing to do with the array behavior.
Feel free to read up in this thread before making any more blank statements. Your dislike for FIR filters wont help here though.
What is it exactly, that made you post on this thread? If you don't like straight line arrays, albeit heavily processed in my case, why post here? This thread is mostly about those, you know... most of the 217 pages anyway...
So far you're not being very persuasive with your arguments. Once you start posting IR's, STEP and early waterfall plots on your own thread you might get my attention. But what you're doing here won't make me change my mind. You're just blowing hot air as far as I'm concerned. As you have done on other threads as well, without a firm grasp of what it is you're criticizing.
I'll go on now, listening to my freshly implemented FIR phase shuffler listening to my imperfect comb filter bugged response as seen here:
Horrible right? A 1/12 octave smoothed measurement at the listening position of separate left and right channel to show the balance...
(as I type this my hairs start to raise from: Rodrigo y Gabriella - Logos
is that response at the listening position without EQ or with EQ.