Make sure that the balance is the same for the congregation as for your location.
Given the disappearance of Hammond, I thought the "war" had been won by synthesizers rather than samplers. From the careful explanation you kindly provided earlier, I guess the samplers are in ascendence. You'd think computer architecture would be simpler for synthesizing. But I suppose even samples need a whole lot of massaging, unless you have one sample for every stop for every note and for the swell pedal positions too, even for just the pedal divisions.
When I was at Bell Labs, my buddies in our department (where "Daisy, Daisy..." was created) were working on piano and violin synthesis. Not bad at the time, but not great. BTW, the department standard was the KLH-6 speaker.
Ben
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Some organs are still using synthesis. I played at churches that had organs made by Allen in the 70's and 80's. They got visual printouts of the waveforms. Then they used their digital synthesizer to model a wave that matched the sample. It was close. But this is inserting the actual digital recording of the pipes into the mix.
The variable is the method of sampling and the equipment used - especially for sounds like those deepest pipes. Not that many mikes can even record down that low. And I would not be surprised if some electronic razzle dazzle was used to enhance those lowest sounds.
If you sample pipes in some organs, you can hear the blower. If you can hear it so can the mikes. The blower for our organ is in a closet just below the speakers. The blower is not real loud so the sound is faint. But you can just hear it. What you hear is mostly the electric motor. And the air does make a little sound as it passes through the four inch diameter air ducts. BTW, a few organ companies experimented with adding a sound that was called "Blower" to make electronic sounds mimic a real pipe organ.
The blower runs when the organ is on. It is providing air to the wind chests into which the pipes are inserted. The wind pressure on our organ is about 4 to 6 pounds per square inch. There is a solenoid valve for each pipe in the rank. Electronics are used to open and close this valve to make the pipe sound and then stop..
BO
The variable is the method of sampling and the equipment used - especially for sounds like those deepest pipes. Not that many mikes can even record down that low. And I would not be surprised if some electronic razzle dazzle was used to enhance those lowest sounds.
If you sample pipes in some organs, you can hear the blower. If you can hear it so can the mikes. The blower for our organ is in a closet just below the speakers. The blower is not real loud so the sound is faint. But you can just hear it. What you hear is mostly the electric motor. And the air does make a little sound as it passes through the four inch diameter air ducts. BTW, a few organ companies experimented with adding a sound that was called "Blower" to make electronic sounds mimic a real pipe organ.
The blower runs when the organ is on. It is providing air to the wind chests into which the pipes are inserted. The wind pressure on our organ is about 4 to 6 pounds per square inch. There is a solenoid valve for each pipe in the rank. Electronics are used to open and close this valve to make the pipe sound and then stop..
BO
Yeah, I kinda suspected that somehow. You are only barely tickling the -24 db light. The next light is -12, then -6 and the red one is the 0 db limit light (red).
Not sure what you mean. This has to be done upstream if you are already using a balanced connection and the volume knob isn't enough when turned all the way up. The DI box should boost your signal strength all you need.
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This experience highlights my story on trying to help someone from a remote location, in fact this is probably an even better story. OP had one job - look at the lights and interpret what they mean. And he was unable to accurately do so. It's not his fault, it's just the way it is due to lack of experience with this product and this type of project. Going back to the measurement, it's about a thousand times more complicated than looking at lights. OP might be convinced he did everything right but there's no way to know what was actually measured. EVERY SINGLE LITTLE DETAIL has to be confirmed or else you don't know. OP can't tell us if he did something wrong if he doesn't know he did something wrong.
Moving on, I see a tremendous problem here. If you are already popping breakers and fuses at the -24 db signal level there is a world of problems ahead. At -24 db the amp is barely drawing any power. At 0 db (clip) it will be drawing several times more power.
As I've probably mentioned before, it's hard to perceive very low frequency sounds, they have to be really loud. The bottom line on the old Fletcher Munson graphs is the threshold of audibility. At 20 hz it's 74 db and if you extend the line down to 16 hz it's about 80 db.
That is the absolute limit of perception. The absolute lower limit of perception is not what you want, you want the audience to hear and feel this low note with authority. This is going to require a level of 120+ db at the listener position. This 120 db will be ~ equal loudness if the midrange notes are 80 db, which isn't really loud at all.
At this point, with only a few watts going to the subs (-24 db on the amp) you probably are not even near 80 db at 16 hz at the audience position. I'm guessing you are going to need several times more power (like several more amps that are each much higher power than you have now) and several more subs to achieve a realistic 16 hz note at the audience position.
And this will likely require rewiring the church and maybe even replacing the electrical panel for a unit that can safely pass more power. This may even require electrical changes external to the building.
You really shouldn't be popping breakers and fuses at the -24 db level on a very small pro amp, this is only a few watts. This indicates huge problems coming your way in your future.
Moving on, I see a tremendous problem here. If you are already popping breakers and fuses at the -24 db signal level there is a world of problems ahead. At -24 db the amp is barely drawing any power. At 0 db (clip) it will be drawing several times more power.
As I've probably mentioned before, it's hard to perceive very low frequency sounds, they have to be really loud. The bottom line on the old Fletcher Munson graphs is the threshold of audibility. At 20 hz it's 74 db and if you extend the line down to 16 hz it's about 80 db.
That is the absolute limit of perception. The absolute lower limit of perception is not what you want, you want the audience to hear and feel this low note with authority. This is going to require a level of 120+ db at the listener position. This 120 db will be ~ equal loudness if the midrange notes are 80 db, which isn't really loud at all.
At this point, with only a few watts going to the subs (-24 db on the amp) you probably are not even near 80 db at 16 hz at the audience position. I'm guessing you are going to need several times more power (like several more amps that are each much higher power than you have now) and several more subs to achieve a realistic 16 hz note at the audience position.
And this will likely require rewiring the church and maybe even replacing the electrical panel for a unit that can safely pass more power. This may even require electrical changes external to the building.
You really shouldn't be popping breakers and fuses at the -24 db level on a very small pro amp, this is only a few watts. This indicates huge problems coming your way in your future.
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JAG,
I agree that the signal should be increased by the Samson box. What was asking is do you see anything to indicate what input sensitivity (-24, -12. -6) the amp is set for. The manual says there are supposed to be indicators for it. I don't see anything in the manual or on the actual unit that serves this purpose.
And yes, I did misread the lowest signal indicator to be the clipping light. Frankly, I'm somewhat relieved to learn this.
BO
P.S. FYI, I had e-mailed the REW data file to Mark for him to analyze. He and I did some previous communication and I had his e-mail address. I think he was asking you if you would like to have that data file so you could examine it to try and ferret out the cause of those signals below 16 Hertz. There may a way to upload the data file to this forum, but I haven't figured out how to do so.
I agree that the signal should be increased by the Samson box. What was asking is do you see anything to indicate what input sensitivity (-24, -12. -6) the amp is set for. The manual says there are supposed to be indicators for it. I don't see anything in the manual or on the actual unit that serves this purpose.
And yes, I did misread the lowest signal indicator to be the clipping light. Frankly, I'm somewhat relieved to learn this.
BO
P.S. FYI, I had e-mailed the REW data file to Mark for him to analyze. He and I did some previous communication and I had his e-mail address. I think he was asking you if you would like to have that data file so you could examine it to try and ferret out the cause of those signals below 16 Hertz. There may a way to upload the data file to this forum, but I haven't figured out how to do so.
Not really. You uploaded the file here already.
And I quoted what you wrote me verbatim.
You have a measurement of what you intended to measure. The electrical signal of the Artisan sound engine being sent to your input on your computer.
I absolutely concur that I'm inexperienced with this amp AND with making REW measurements.
I also agree that popping a circuit breaker while driving such low power must be considered a wake-up call.
Currently, the three Crown XLS1000s and the iNuke are being powered through a box that powers on certain plugs when the organ is switched on. The Artisan sound engine and the computer monitor are also on that same circuit, though they are not turned off when the organ is powered off. All this power is currently coming from one electrical outlet located in the closet where the amps sit in a rack..
I will have to determine what other electrical items are on that electrical circuit. I do know that at least one overhead light is on that circuit. I'll research this. I do know how to do that. I'm cautiously optimistic that we won't have to completely rewire the entire church to solve this issue.
BTW, the iNuke manual says the iNuke 3000DSP draws 210 watts at 4 ohms. And our bass speakers were wired for 4 ohms. I'm guessing that the 3 Crown XLS1000 amps are drawing less that 200 watts each. But it all adds up.
BO
I also agree that popping a circuit breaker while driving such low power must be considered a wake-up call.
Currently, the three Crown XLS1000s and the iNuke are being powered through a box that powers on certain plugs when the organ is switched on. The Artisan sound engine and the computer monitor are also on that same circuit, though they are not turned off when the organ is powered off. All this power is currently coming from one electrical outlet located in the closet where the amps sit in a rack..
I will have to determine what other electrical items are on that electrical circuit. I do know that at least one overhead light is on that circuit. I'll research this. I do know how to do that. I'm cautiously optimistic that we won't have to completely rewire the entire church to solve this issue.
BTW, the iNuke manual says the iNuke 3000DSP draws 210 watts at 4 ohms. And our bass speakers were wired for 4 ohms. I'm guessing that the 3 Crown XLS1000 amps are drawing less that 200 watts each. But it all adds up.
BO
Look at page 19 of your manual and you will see this:
And in the quick guide you get this little gem.
And in the quick guide you get this little gem.
You are completely misunderstanding what the lights mean.
The first yellow light is the -24 db signal strength indicator.
The second yellow light is the -12 db signal strength indicator.
The third yellow light is the -6 db signal strength indicator.
The red light is the limit 0 db signal strength indicator.
There's no setting to switch between -24, -12 and -6. These are not "sensitivity settings", they are just input signal strength indicator lights.
The volume knobs set the input signal strength level. If you start at no signal and turn up the volume it will light up the bottom (-24 db) light. If you turn up the volume more it will light up the second light, and so on, turn it up more and it will light up the third light, and then the finally the red light.
If the volume knob is turned all the way up and you can't get the red limit light to light up you need more signal strength from the signal source (Artisan), and you get that by adding the DI box.
The pic from the manual Mark just posted clearly shows that's the power draw at 1/8 power. You can't get 1500 watts (or whatever the amp is rated for at full power) from a power draw of 210 watts.
Yeah, you keep saying that and I'll keep asking - why no spike at 16 hz? Why no harmonics at all? Why the huge spike at 10 hz? The blower noise should not be stronger than the fundamental and the (non existent) harmonics.
Why do you refuse to answer these simple questions? Why do you continue to assume the measurement is an accurate measurement when it doesn't look anything like what a pipe organ note should look like?
There's a good chance this measurement is not what you think it is. The more you dig in your heels and refuse to accept the fact that this does not look anything like what a pipe organ note should look like, the harder it's going to be on your ego if you are proven wrong.
I'll point out once again that you have been wrong before, spectacularly wrong. And you tried to justify your wrong answers right up to the point that they were completely unjustifiable. There's a very good chance that this measurement is not showing what you think it is. That 10 hz spike that's higher than ANYTHING ELSE in the measurement is so unlikely to be blower noise that it's ridiculous that you use it as justification that this measurement is accurate. The lack of harmonics alone should indicate this probably isn't a pipe organ note sample.
JAG,
Thanks. I get it now.
I've always believed there is a difference between inexperienced/illiterate and just plain stupid. Maybe I'm sometimes both, though I hope not. I have learned a lot. But I had a lot to learn. And I'm still learning.
One more thing about the electrical circuit. I mentioned that there is a light on the same circuit as the amps. There is also an electrical outlet located in the pipe chamber. It was added before I came to the church by one of the members who was a retired electrician. Sadly, he died of Cancer about three years ago. Thus, I cannot ask him where the circuit comes from.
We have some electric heaters in the pipe chamber to pre-heat the pipes before church so they play in tune. These heaters draw a combined 1,400 watts. I do not know where the power for that circuit comes from. If it is on the same circuit as the amps, it isn't surprising that the circuit breaker would pop. That situation would absolutely require some rewiring.
There is another electrical outlet in the nursery about 8 feet from our amp closet. Our closet (located in that room) is kept locked to keep curious children from playing with the knobs on the amps. I would not be comfortable running an extension cord from this outlet to our closet. BUT if this outlet is on a separate circuit from the outlet in the amp closet, we could probably run some #12 Romex cable through the walls (or using conduit) to get additional power to the system. A competent electrician could do that fairly easily. Cost, however, would be an issue.
BO
Thanks. I get it now.
I've always believed there is a difference between inexperienced/illiterate and just plain stupid. Maybe I'm sometimes both, though I hope not. I have learned a lot. But I had a lot to learn. And I'm still learning.
One more thing about the electrical circuit. I mentioned that there is a light on the same circuit as the amps. There is also an electrical outlet located in the pipe chamber. It was added before I came to the church by one of the members who was a retired electrician. Sadly, he died of Cancer about three years ago. Thus, I cannot ask him where the circuit comes from.
We have some electric heaters in the pipe chamber to pre-heat the pipes before church so they play in tune. These heaters draw a combined 1,400 watts. I do not know where the power for that circuit comes from. If it is on the same circuit as the amps, it isn't surprising that the circuit breaker would pop. That situation would absolutely require some rewiring.
There is another electrical outlet in the nursery about 8 feet from our amp closet. Our closet (located in that room) is kept locked to keep curious children from playing with the knobs on the amps. I would not be comfortable running an extension cord from this outlet to our closet. BUT if this outlet is on a separate circuit from the outlet in the amp closet, we could probably run some #12 Romex cable through the walls (or using conduit) to get additional power to the system. A competent electrician could do that fairly easily. Cost, however, would be an issue.
BO
A little electrical information.
I have wired houses off and on for many years. Not a full time electrician by any means. But my work gets inspected and gets passed with no changes required. So I know the electrical code in Ontario Canada. Keeps me from going nuts looking at a computer screen each and every day.
The Electrical Code up here is a bit tougher than in most U.S. states.
What we have in common.
voltage x amperage = wattage.
A normal breaker size of 15 amps on nominal 120 volts is capable of supplying:
120 x 15 = 1800 watts
I know this is almost insulting to go through. But it is sometimes the simple things that we miss. I'm as guilty as anyone else on that front.
Here you are allowed to run 12 fixtures on one breaker. That would be 12 lights. Or 12 plugs on one breaker fed by 14 gauge wire on a 15 amp circuit breaker.
If you are for instance running your heaters on the same circuit you are in exceedingly short supply of electricity for anything else. I'm pretty sure they are on a seperate circuit.
But a look at your electrical panel should tell you something of=r the other about what is connected to what.
Possibly you can trace the wires from outlet to outlet? Is the wall clad on both side?
To get the full 3000 out of the iNuke you will need a bit more power. The amp circuit is not 100% efficient nor is the powersupply circuit 100% efficient. Some of the power going in gets converted to heat.
A safe realistic loss is 10% at full pin. Class D amps are most efficient at full power.
So take a simple 1.10 x 3000 and you get 3300 watts required for the iNuke to give all it's got.
3300 / 120 = 27.5 amps.
I know they don't make a 27.5 amp breaker. They make 30 amp breakers.
You can't run 30 amps on 14 gauge wire either.
In fact here you would have to run 10 gauge wire to be permitted to run that kind of power.
However there is good news.
Many intelligent fellows in audio have done exhaustive research into electrical circuit breakers and what power they will actually let pass through. Almost all will pass 10 times their rating for a decent amount of time. Long enough for the venerable iNuke to run out of steam and give it's death poop of 3000 watts and gasp cuz it has no more to give.
So if you had a dedicated circuit for your amp rack you should be fine. There are very few times that all the amps will be running at full output.
I have wired houses off and on for many years. Not a full time electrician by any means. But my work gets inspected and gets passed with no changes required. So I know the electrical code in Ontario Canada. Keeps me from going nuts looking at a computer screen each and every day.
The Electrical Code up here is a bit tougher than in most U.S. states.
What we have in common.
voltage x amperage = wattage.
A normal breaker size of 15 amps on nominal 120 volts is capable of supplying:
120 x 15 = 1800 watts
I know this is almost insulting to go through. But it is sometimes the simple things that we miss. I'm as guilty as anyone else on that front.
Here you are allowed to run 12 fixtures on one breaker. That would be 12 lights. Or 12 plugs on one breaker fed by 14 gauge wire on a 15 amp circuit breaker.
If you are for instance running your heaters on the same circuit you are in exceedingly short supply of electricity for anything else. I'm pretty sure they are on a seperate circuit.
But a look at your electrical panel should tell you something of=r the other about what is connected to what.
Possibly you can trace the wires from outlet to outlet? Is the wall clad on both side?
To get the full 3000 out of the iNuke you will need a bit more power. The amp circuit is not 100% efficient nor is the powersupply circuit 100% efficient. Some of the power going in gets converted to heat.
A safe realistic loss is 10% at full pin. Class D amps are most efficient at full power.
So take a simple 1.10 x 3000 and you get 3300 watts required for the iNuke to give all it's got.
3300 / 120 = 27.5 amps.
I know they don't make a 27.5 amp breaker. They make 30 amp breakers.
You can't run 30 amps on 14 gauge wire either.
In fact here you would have to run 10 gauge wire to be permitted to run that kind of power.
However there is good news.
Many intelligent fellows in audio have done exhaustive research into electrical circuit breakers and what power they will actually let pass through. Almost all will pass 10 times their rating for a decent amount of time. Long enough for the venerable iNuke to run out of steam and give it's death poop of 3000 watts and gasp cuz it has no more to give.
So if you had a dedicated circuit for your amp rack you should be fine. There are very few times that all the amps will be running at full output.
Thanks, Mark. I did know at least some of that. But it is best to have the details fresh in an old forgetful brain like mine.
BTW, the two photos from your iNuke manual do not appear in my printed manual. I sure wish they had. But with a little help from you guys, I now better understand what is going on. My Dad used to call that "getting an education at Hardknocks University" I have several advanced degrees from my old Alma Mater..
So, I'm now in the waiting game for the patch cables for the Samson box. But I can use some of the time to check out those electrical circuits.
BTW, the two heaters are actually on a timer. Our church has an early contemporary service that doesn't use the organ. Some of the members involved in that service turn that timer to run for about two or three hours when they arrive for the early service. One of the heaters is adjacent to the Trumpet and Oboe pipes that really go sour in the cold. The other is near the larger collection of metal pipes of our 4 and 8 foot flue pipes. The heaters don't run 24/7, or evenly daily. We have a fan that draws air through the pipe chamber to keep the humidity under control when the organ is powered off. The Peterson control circuitry automatically opens the shades when the console gets turned off. That fan draws some of the heat from one of the radiators across the largest collection of our metal flue pipes. The heaters do make a difference in the tuning.
BO
BTW, the two photos from your iNuke manual do not appear in my printed manual. I sure wish they had. But with a little help from you guys, I now better understand what is going on. My Dad used to call that "getting an education at Hardknocks University" I have several advanced degrees from my old Alma Mater..
So, I'm now in the waiting game for the patch cables for the Samson box. But I can use some of the time to check out those electrical circuits.
BTW, the two heaters are actually on a timer. Our church has an early contemporary service that doesn't use the organ. Some of the members involved in that service turn that timer to run for about two or three hours when they arrive for the early service. One of the heaters is adjacent to the Trumpet and Oboe pipes that really go sour in the cold. The other is near the larger collection of metal pipes of our 4 and 8 foot flue pipes. The heaters don't run 24/7, or evenly daily. We have a fan that draws air through the pipe chamber to keep the humidity under control when the organ is powered off. The Peterson control circuitry automatically opens the shades when the console gets turned off. That fan draws some of the heat from one of the radiators across the largest collection of our metal flue pipes. The heaters do make a difference in the tuning.
BO
It absolutely is not insulting. How many times have I said now that EVERY SINGLE LITTLE DETAIL has to be covered if you are helping from a remote location?
If anything was going to be insulting, it would have been me asking if OP was really seeing a clip light (instead of a -24 db light), and look how that turned out.
I wouldn't be so sure they are on a separate circuit. Even if it was a retired electrician that did the wiring he may have cheated. Sometimes it a lot easier to cheat than to run multiple new lines through the walls across the length of the entire building from the electrical panel to the outlets on the far side of the building.
And I'm pretty sure the guy that wired this was not expecting someone to come along several years later and hook up a bunch of power amps, computers, and other assorted equipment.
I've seen some absolutely terrible decisions made in electrical wiring.
Looking probably won't get you very far. But there is a better way.
Power on EVERYTHING in the entire building. It doesn't all need to be running full steam. But for example plug the power amp in so the power light is on, it doesn't need to be running. Have something plugged into every single outlet, some small device that has a power light so you can see if the outlet is getting power.
Turn breakers off one by one (or pull fuses one by one). After you turn off each breaker (or pull each fuse) walk around the building and see what turned off. This will tell you EXACTLY what is connected to each breaker or fuse.
You might find that a single breaker or fuse turns off a LOT more than you might expect in the organ room and surrounding rooms. it's even possible that stuff on the entirely opposite end of the building is on the same circuit as the organ room. It might be unlikely but it's possible.
In particular you want to see if the heaters are connected to the same circuit as the power amps. The heaters will draw a lot of power. But you also want to know EVERYTHING that is connected to that circuit, and there may be stuff on that circuit that you didn't expect, even stuff far away.
In old buildings the wiring can be a rat's nest of complexity with stuff spliced in here and there over the years and some circuits becoming incredibly overloaded.
Most power amps can only put out their full rated power for a fraction of a second, a few seconds at most. So they might not be drawing as much as you might think, especially if the signal is very dynamic and has a low duty cycle.
Most breakers and fuses can allow several times their rated power to pass for up to a few seconds as Mark mentioned.
Combine those two factors and the outlook is bleak. It means there is a HUGE amount of power being drawn from things other than the power amps. You have to figure out what's drawing the power and if there's nearby outlets on a different circuit that you can use. Otherwise you will be doing some rewiring (or rather adding circuits and wiring).
It might be time to get help. This job you are doing is a monumental task. Get the kids to help out.
Have a kid in each room monitoring each outlet. Make sure each outlet has something plugged in so you can visually see if it's on. Turn off breakers (or pull fuses) one by one and get a full report of what plugs are connected to what breakers and fuses.
You might find that the building needs to be rewired for general safety, it's entirely possible that the wiring is an overloaded mess.
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Also if/when you do this test make sure all the lights are on. You want all the lights on and something plugged into every single outlet in the whole building. Then start turning off breakers one by one and see what's connected to each breaker.
Some stuff like the water heater will be a bit harder to determine. It's probably wired direct to the panel and it's not easy to see if it's on or off. Electric heating could also be tricky to determine, but most of the major stuff should be labelled in the panel so you just have to figure out which lights and outlets are connected to each breaker. Just make sure you don't forget to account for the major stuff like water heater, electrical heating, stoves, stuff like that draws a lot of power and it might be on the same circuit as other things.
Some stuff like the water heater will be a bit harder to determine. It's probably wired direct to the panel and it's not easy to see if it's on or off. Electric heating could also be tricky to determine, but most of the major stuff should be labelled in the panel so you just have to figure out which lights and outlets are connected to each breaker. Just make sure you don't forget to account for the major stuff like water heater, electrical heating, stoves, stuff like that draws a lot of power and it might be on the same circuit as other things.
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This is the best I can find.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/248-6706-behringer-nu3000dsp-manual.pdf
By the way. I went to WhatsamattaU .
Not U
or College.
I learned the heard way.
And some of it stuck, sticks, keeps sticking?
Oh hell you know what I mean.
The truth told by many a colleague is that if you don't keep up your regular intake of information pertaining to your field of study it makes very little difference if you studied in a structured establishment or went commando and started in the library.
I had me an 8 story library that I camped out in during the late 80's. All technical information. NOt a novel in sight. CISTI research library on the NRC campus off of Montreal Road in Ottawa. I doubt that they would allow a neophyte like I was back then in there now.
Same goes for the multiple 3 inch binders that I have of the stuff I thought would be great reference material. Not supposed to make copies now.
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/manuals/248-6706-behringer-nu3000dsp-manual.pdf
By the way. I went to WhatsamattaU .
Not U
or College.
I learned the heard way.
And some of it stuck, sticks, keeps sticking?
Oh hell you know what I mean.
The truth told by many a colleague is that if you don't keep up your regular intake of information pertaining to your field of study it makes very little difference if you studied in a structured establishment or went commando and started in the library.
I had me an 8 story library that I camped out in during the late 80's. All technical information. NOt a novel in sight. CISTI research library on the NRC campus off of Montreal Road in Ottawa. I doubt that they would allow a neophyte like I was back then in there now.
Same goes for the multiple 3 inch binders that I have of the stuff I thought would be great reference material. Not supposed to make copies now.
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Earlier in this project I discovered that the Triangular box was vibrating against a wall in the speaker chamber. I put two inches of foam padding under it and around it to provide some cushioning. Most of the rattles I was hearing at the low frequencies disappeared after that.
But the REW measurement I tried to obtain from the Artisan output did not include our amps or speakers at all. I'll try again to take additional measurements at various frequencies.
It may be that the measurement settings were too hot or too low. It may also be possible that the laptop computer just couldn't handle those very low frequencies and added some questionable stuff. I dunno what it is. Mark has proposed one POSSIBLE answer. Call it a hypothesis. It's possible that the audio system of my laptop could not handle those lowest frequencies and had some sort of digital meltdown when asked to operate in this area. Perhaps the cause is my inexperience with REW. Or it may be possible that the low frequency Artisan samples are flawed and not as good as the samples for higher pitches. Any of these could be a potential cause (or hypothesis) as any other. I don't think it needs to be a reason for reasonable and intelligent people to go into heat over it. It isn't personal, It's just an organ with a bunch of speakers and pipes we're talking about, gentlemen. This isn't about how to protect the human race from annihilation via some potential threat. No lives depend on this. Relax. It's MY problem. I'm willing to live with the problem rather than have a falling out occur between good people who are trying to offer me assistance.
Just my 2 cents worth. And worth all it cost you. Do with it whatever you will.
BO.
But the REW measurement I tried to obtain from the Artisan output did not include our amps or speakers at all. I'll try again to take additional measurements at various frequencies.
It may be that the measurement settings were too hot or too low. It may also be possible that the laptop computer just couldn't handle those very low frequencies and added some questionable stuff. I dunno what it is. Mark has proposed one POSSIBLE answer. Call it a hypothesis. It's possible that the audio system of my laptop could not handle those lowest frequencies and had some sort of digital meltdown when asked to operate in this area. Perhaps the cause is my inexperience with REW. Or it may be possible that the low frequency Artisan samples are flawed and not as good as the samples for higher pitches. Any of these could be a potential cause (or hypothesis) as any other. I don't think it needs to be a reason for reasonable and intelligent people to go into heat over it. It isn't personal, It's just an organ with a bunch of speakers and pipes we're talking about, gentlemen. This isn't about how to protect the human race from annihilation via some potential threat. No lives depend on this. Relax. It's MY problem. I'm willing to live with the problem rather than have a falling out occur between good people who are trying to offer me assistance.
Just my 2 cents worth. And worth all it cost you. Do with it whatever you will.
BO.
True, but I bet for all but the fanciest organs, the dazzle dazzle is to remove anything starting under 24 Hz (and maybe boosting 24-44 Hz).
Here we go again: instead of posting endlessly about the single RTA test that likely is faulty, just run it again, just lowest pedal, making sure you aren't just recording the noise floor (you can always use a "Y" connector and so listen while you record... ir doesn't remove any of the signal from the amplifiers downstream).
If you want to know the capabilities of your laptop, just plug the output into the input an run a REW sweep. Should look pretty flat from 10 to 25kHz. But ensures you did the wiring and preferences panel right. Then switch to RTA and run a tone for a few seconds as the RTA screen lights up. Done.
If humidity is the issue due to location, fans use little power; a de-humidifier also uses little power (relative to a heater) but only works in well closed-up rooms.
Ben
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