Resistor Sound Quality?

[SY]

This precise stacking of equal resistors was suggested by a Member here to try to measure the distortion of a properly rated single resistor.
I wish I knew who.

jneutron.

2-5W resistors are commonly available from major parts jobbers. For a typical value of 20k and a 50V maximum, 2W hits my rule with margin to spare.

 

[jacco vermeulen]

stacking of equal resistors

Doesn't take a genius, it's taught at university.
Do it with random pickings a number of times, and one is able to calculate the spread.

( http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/parts/64538-resistor-sound-quality-6.html#post3398760 )

 

[JMFahey]

(some folks hand-pick matching loudspeakers)

Was about to start writing, fully agreeing of course, when I saw:

The response variations and distortion generated by loudspeakers are orders of magnitude larger then what we commonly see with even mid-priced electronic components.

That audiophiles may fret over cartridge load resistors and give a pass to all the foul things that even the finest loudspeakers and room acoustics impose on real world systems is instructive.
Today 11:40 AM

answer with which I also FULLY agree 🙂

Funny thing is that I am reading this while enjoying a cup of coffee during a pause right in the middle of actually making speakers 😱

I mean speakers-speakers , not speaker-cabinets.

But I'm now getting very worried: some of the frames are painted light blue (Customer's requirement), others are silver zinc plated, my regular finish.

Foolishly I thought that using all voice coils from the same box, cones and spiders from the same batch would make them sound reasonably close, but here in this great Forum I have just learnt that part C.O.L.O.U.R. is paramount, and nothing else matters.

Funny thing, in fact *all* sound AND measure different, .... but difference does not seem to be related to colour ...... should I myself?
Maybe Penitence makes me see/hear what my stubborn sinner brain does not want to.

Some torture might make me agree with Winston, from George Orwell's "1984" fame:

perhaps I should insist on challenging some widespread and very popular Myths after all, because:

and

mmmmhhhhhh, please wait a second, somebody knocked the door ... hard ..... as if with a sledge hammer ......... and I hear a chopper flying low and ..... boots running on my roof ..............
....
....
....
....
hey !!!!! , this is a friendly discussion !!!!!!! which of you subjectivists denounced me to the Thought Police?

 

[john curl]

The resistors we used for the CTC Blowtorch were the Resista, Holco, and Caddock depending on the power rating needed. I would still use them today, if possible. BUT Dale makes some pretty good resistors these days and Ed Simon pointed them out to me awhile ago. We use them for commercial designs.
SY got it wrong. We did not 'voice' each preamp for each customer. We only made different numbers of inputs and outputs, or balanced or unbalanced for each customer.
I would not know how to 'voice' a preamp, but we did add on a few very high value Vishay bulk metal resistors with the TKD pots, which Bob Crump thought made them sound more neutral, or better. He was the 'golden ear' when he was alive. I miss him, because I don't have his sensitivity to subtlety to sound character that he had.

 

[SY]

SY got it wrong. We did not 'voice' each preamp for each customer.

Since I didn't say that, in what way am I wrong?

 

[john curl]

Sorry SY, I can't find your input. Where did it go?

 

[SY]

My "input" was agreeing with you that the feedback resistor is the most critical one. And I expanded on that a bit to explain why.

Posts 824 and 835, to be specific.

 

[jacco vermeulen]

Was about to start writing, fully agreeing of course, when I saw

You mean you know/understand what my line implied ?

 

[vacuphile]

vacuphile is simple tray and report that all.....
​

Please, what do you want to say?

 

[billshurv]

Since I didn't say that, in what way am I wrong?

Whilst I am not worthy of being confused with SY I said it.every review of the blowtorch I have found states that each unit was individually voiced for the client. Apologies for perpetuating an untruth, but the blowtorch is almost mythical!

 

[john curl]

You are right, SY, it was Billshurv who implied that we individually 'voiced' each preamp for the client. How would we do this? Any answers?

 

[billshurv]

References:
REVIEW: CTC Blowtorch preamp Preamplifier (SS) - Brian Cheney - General Asylum

www.remusic.it/The-Blowtorch-Preamp-95f1a700?MasterId=g1_547

Bob Crump interviews each customer, exploring what other components are in the system so that the unit can be optimized to work with those components.

You can see how this could be read two ways...

 

[fdegrove]

Hi,

Nice to see you John here... Yes Erno use Caddock MK132V for feedback resistor

fdegrove all the same dale holco prp kiwane riken all sound different only with shinkoh I can go up 30ohm on load, maybe my system at the time dont have one caps in series with signal ,year of.............

Thanks for your reply.
I agree in general about Rs having a sound of their own. A sonic fingerprint I like to call it.
Most passives do, all it takes is using enough of the same for it to become audible really.
You can often even recognize brand "sound" as some manufacturers keep using the same passive components throughout their range of products.

I do think you owe it to yourself to try out a bulk foil loading R in that particular position (100R for Koetsu IIRC).
To my ears that's one of the rare ones that do not have a sound of their own.

Cheers, 😉

 

[john curl]

I understand Bill. However, I was hoping for some input how we could have 'voiced' the individual CTC Blowtorches. '-)

 

[john curl]

Thanks for the input Frank.

 

[nicoch58]

HI Frank with 120 ohm sound to close for my taste/system ,I tested the resistor at 150 Ohm , end up 180 with shinkoh
thanks for the hint but on 2008 the bulk foil were rare ,120/150 Ohm will be nice trasparent

 

[jan.didden]

Ahhh now we see! You play around with the value! Of course that changes the sound!
Easily measured, too!

Jan

 

[DF96]

So circuit theory is still true? That is a relief - I would not want to have to relearn in modified form all the stuff I have learnt about electronics over the past 45 years.

 

[meles2]

This thread is a trap!

Hmm, just to review there is a common often true saying "The chain is only as strong as its weakest link"

The application to audio seems obvious - the fidelity of an audio chain is then logically most profoundly affected by the poorest sounding component.

From a perceptual standpoint the audible deficiencies in the poorest component in a chain can be shown to be capable of masking lesser audible problems elsewhere.

For example as soon as CD players and CDs became readily available back in the 80s our audio club experienced an improvement of the ability of our listening tests to reliably discern differences among certain other components that had been apparently masked by the vinyl and analog tape program material that we formerly had to rely on.

After watching this thread for years it finally explodes on Turkey day. How appropriate!🙄
The sincerity of Sy and attempt to help Nicoch is admirable and touching (really it is.) The expertise of all is impressive, but the sighted listening/blind testing religion stuff gets old. We all here things differently (Engineer/audiphile friend does not like clipping), but can't hear very obvious changes (or won't hear.)

Arnyk's above hits the nail on the point exactly. "The chain is only as strong as its weakest link" or "the bigger you are the harder you fall", and this does apply to audio and making a system (of parts if you are designing/modding). If one had the ultimate "boutique" single ended system with every boutique part lovingly selected (with correct enginneering behind it), what would happen if you replaced one part (resistor)? How far would the system fall with a measurable defective or wrong part (inductive wirewound resistor) in the most critical position? What would happen if a non-boutique, measurably identical, part was put in its place? By engineering standards, one should hear nothing, but I'd be very surprised if this was the case.

These small changes can add up. If one goes into a CD player and replaces a couple random resistors with bulk foil types, doubt that does anything. However, a well "tweaked" system can get better and better from seemingly small changes especially if the change corrects something that was in the "harder you fall" category. (For me this was replacing Loesch preamp 20k passive Daven "noninductive" steped pot with a Placette bulk foil 9k passive).

Solid engineering is invaluable and critical and this thread could be so much more if we could identify where resistor quality might really matter and then let bygones be bygones and allow the cork sniffing boutique set to waste some money and report back results without pages of trolling.

Wish I had easy cartridge loading setup and I'd get a bulk foil and then try to hand measure a nice metal film resistor at local parts store to match to a close value. Sy says this makes no difference and it would be a great test.

Until we all agree to get along and work towards something useful, this thread from 60,000 feet is just a smorgasborg of trolling on the sound of resistors.
http://giphy.com/gifs/community-ew-ewcom-GzCSoeteTBzry
It's a trap!

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

 

[marce]

The weakest link probably being our perception, but this is unacceptable to many!