Hi,
I have just picked up 2 pairs of these. They are early models and have a few missing/non working panels. The bonus is there is a full set of spare panels for one pair which are in unopened boxes. I've yet to open and confirm.
They have both been a bit modified. Crossovers removed and run using digital cossovers (deqx). Covers and stands a bit scratched and battered. A 15inch woofer in place of 2 panels in one.
I will post a few pictures if anyone is interested. I haven't opened up any of the burnt panels as yet and it might be a few days before I can fire either of them up.
Hoping someone has some experience of these and I haven't wasted my money.
Regards,
kffern
I have just picked up 2 pairs of these. They are early models and have a few missing/non working panels. The bonus is there is a full set of spare panels for one pair which are in unopened boxes. I've yet to open and confirm.
They have both been a bit modified. Crossovers removed and run using digital cossovers (deqx). Covers and stands a bit scratched and battered. A 15inch woofer in place of 2 panels in one.
I will post a few pictures if anyone is interested. I haven't opened up any of the burnt panels as yet and it might be a few days before I can fire either of them up.
Hoping someone has some experience of these and I haven't wasted my money.
Regards,
kffern
Yes post all pic...an info on mods are any upgreads... with any ESLs..........
Kingsound are killer speakers....some my say as good as it get ....in ESL fullrang sound...
Thanks for your time...........
Kingsound are killer speakers....some my say as good as it get ....in ESL fullrang sound...
Thanks for your time...........
Well I managed to fire them up today. I used a minidsp 2x4 set at 1000Hz using LR48db crossovers with a 30HZ and 20Kz cut.
They sounded good and clean but imaging was poor and I got a slight improvement using the phase invert on the preamp. A bit underwhelming so far, compared to my ER audio ELSIII.
Thats telling me something but I've yet to figure it out.
I'm next going to try changing the 1000Hz x/o to BW12db/Oct and see what it does.
I also need to fit the missing panels back. Some of the plugs have come off. There isnt much space to fit the 3 connectors and wire ito the tiny slot at the side of the panel. This has resulted in a few broken cables and plugs falling off. Actually both sets of speakers have 2 bass panels each speaker removed with a piece of wood for the 15 inch bass driver - no name as far as I can see but seems good quality.
Will follow with a picture of the plugs. Inside is a small bullet style connector.
Removed crossover
They sounded good and clean but imaging was poor and I got a slight improvement using the phase invert on the preamp. A bit underwhelming so far, compared to my ER audio ELSIII.
Thats telling me something but I've yet to figure it out.
I'm next going to try changing the 1000Hz x/o to BW12db/Oct and see what it does.
I also need to fit the missing panels back. Some of the plugs have come off. There isnt much space to fit the 3 connectors and wire ito the tiny slot at the side of the panel. This has resulted in a few broken cables and plugs falling off. Actually both sets of speakers have 2 bass panels each speaker removed with a piece of wood for the 15 inch bass driver - no name as far as I can see but seems good quality.
Will follow with a picture of the plugs. Inside is a small bullet style connector.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Removed crossover
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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The bass panel is 43 x 22 cm and there are 7 per speaker.
The treble panels are 14 x 29cm and there are 5 per speaker.
The treble panels are 14 x 29cm and there are 5 per speaker.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Wow.....thanks .....
be sure the bias is up...if some panels bias is off..the image well be off...output well be lacking....bass well be week.....this would be the frist place I would start....
looking at the bias boards...looks like all the dust an crued can pull bias down.....
pull an clean boards .....this may be why the other ower felt the 15"driver was needed..............
Do you know what the bias is too be set at??
be sure the bias is up...if some panels bias is off..the image well be off...output well be lacking....bass well be week.....this would be the frist place I would start....
looking at the bias boards...looks like all the dust an crued can pull bias down.....
pull an clean boards .....this may be why the other ower felt the 15"driver was needed..............
Do you know what the bias is too be set at??
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24 keV, is what is written on the bag of some of the spares.
The previous owner can't remember any details apart from the crossover is set at 1kHz. All the panels seems to have output when I move my ear along the panels. I don't have a HV meter but planning on getting this EHT probe.
The same wire from the HV supply connects all the panels. There is a seperate HV supply for the woofer and tweeter panels so I assume they run at different voltages. I have a 5 or more spare HV supplies plus the other speaker pair. Not sure if any of them work.
http://www.altronics.com.au/p/k2559-high-voltage-eht-probe-dmm-adaptor-kit/http://
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Well.... I gess that 2.4kv small panels......if the bias is to low you can kill the tranfourmers....well the bass tran for sure........bias has every thing to do with panel output......loudness.....
Your ER audio guy may help you... an you have ER ajustabel bias right.. .give him a call may save you time an money....
Others here may have input on the kings..............thanks for posting any an all info on Esls
the king sound is new.....I never seen it....
Your ER audio guy may help you... an you have ER ajustabel bias right.. .give him a call may save you time an money....
Others here may have input on the kings..............thanks for posting any an all info on Esls
the king sound is new.....I never seen it....
After changing the crossover and pulling the speakers a bit further from the wall it has made a huge difference.
I also used a 2xKT88 per channel PP amp on the tweeters. Previously had a professional amp given to me by the guy who owned the kings. Just need to get the 2 panels back or a sub hooked up and it should sound good. Still sounds better/louder with the phase inverted on the preamp.
I opened up one of the burnt bass panels. Paint has been burnt off the stator where it has arced. Pretty elaborate construction.
The HV copper tape is run over the diaphragm which makes things difficult. I can't see why they couldn't have put it on the spacer (2.5mm). The spacer is molded to match the screw holes of the frame. The last picture shows the spacer put over the stator. The stators bow a fair bit when not clamped. Forgot to take a picture. It seems to have a thicker coat of paint along the edges - almost a dipped look.
I also used a 2xKT88 per channel PP amp on the tweeters. Previously had a professional amp given to me by the guy who owned the kings. Just need to get the 2 panels back or a sub hooked up and it should sound good. Still sounds better/louder with the phase inverted on the preamp.
I opened up one of the burnt bass panels. Paint has been burnt off the stator where it has arced. Pretty elaborate construction.
The HV copper tape is run over the diaphragm which makes things difficult. I can't see why they couldn't have put it on the spacer (2.5mm). The spacer is molded to match the screw holes of the frame. The last picture shows the spacer put over the stator. The stators bow a fair bit when not clamped. Forgot to take a picture. It seems to have a thicker coat of paint along the edges - almost a dipped look.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Well thay needed .....as we all do with ESLs ...to get the copper bias feed making the best contack with mylar...I would have thought the copper bias feed .....at this $$$ would have went all the way around the panels....
bias after all is what makes the panels work.....no are low bias ....no sound....but they did do bouth sides..better than most...
ML only feed one side...an that's on $20k speakers...........but thay need there bias to fail.....sale more speakers.....I gess. ....$80k for ML with a 5year warranty...........nuts...well to me....
As for the inverting.... you can just chang the speakers wire....to the inputs an you have it....
thanks for your time an the pic......
bias after all is what makes the panels work.....no are low bias ....no sound....but they did do bouth sides..better than most...
ML only feed one side...an that's on $20k speakers...........but thay need there bias to fail.....sale more speakers.....I gess. ....$80k for ML with a 5year warranty...........nuts...well to me....
As for the inverting.... you can just chang the speakers wire....to the inputs an you have it....
thanks for your time an the pic......
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Measurements needed or you are whizzing in the dark.
Link to probe not working. But simple to solder-up a 1000:1 voltage divider with ten 10meg and one 100k resistors and working carefully.
Ben
The link works when I try it.
If you mean measuring the speaker response - I will get down to it when I think they are working properly. I have a day job which is fairly demanding and with young kids and dogs, little free time and space so it all happens slowly with a lot of breaks. Not in the Florida retirement stage as yet 🙂
kffern
Granted it isn't the dread 404, but I still get: "Sorry an error occured.(1) Please try again later."
Maybe it's me.
B.
kffern.............
take your time ... king Audio....
great New two way type fullrange ESLs ...never seen here....an theres ben a lot....
take your time ... king Audio....
great New two way type fullrange ESLs ...never seen here....an theres ben a lot....
pretty nice looking panels to be honest. quad also dont uses complete bias ring. its not needed , it depends on the coatings conductivity. but it cantt hurt to do make a complete loop , thats for sure 🙂
I have found a pretty thorough review of the Kingsound KS-3000 which is the model I have. Quite a long read and a bit disheartening in the end.
Review - Kingsound King Electrostatic Spkr - AudioEnz
Meanwhile, I started getting the other pair working. Fitted in missing panels and vaccumed cobwebs, insect eggs, body parts out of the panels.
One speaker fired up and played fine after a bit of crackling and sputtering. The other speaker had a panel that was shorting HV to the rest of the panels and gave me a bit of a shock. Removed the offending panel and it was quiet and not shocking but only a muffled sound through the woofers. Tweeters were fine. I disconnected the crossover and tried the bass panels full range from the amp and it worked fine, minus a woofer panel. I am using an old Nad 7240 integrated for the testing.
Plan to refit the crossover and see what happens. I can't see any obvious faults in the crossover board.
One thing that is confusing is the crossover has only single wire input, yet both pairs of speakers have seperate woofer/ tweeter sockets. maybe the previous owner modified the first pair as there are no markings on the back cover of this pair. Hope he can find the missing crossovers sometime before I get myseld a suitable 3 way crossover.
Kffern
Review - Kingsound King Electrostatic Spkr - AudioEnz
Meanwhile, I started getting the other pair working. Fitted in missing panels and vaccumed cobwebs, insect eggs, body parts out of the panels.
One speaker fired up and played fine after a bit of crackling and sputtering. The other speaker had a panel that was shorting HV to the rest of the panels and gave me a bit of a shock. Removed the offending panel and it was quiet and not shocking but only a muffled sound through the woofers. Tweeters were fine. I disconnected the crossover and tried the bass panels full range from the amp and it worked fine, minus a woofer panel. I am using an old Nad 7240 integrated for the testing.
Plan to refit the crossover and see what happens. I can't see any obvious faults in the crossover board.
One thing that is confusing is the crossover has only single wire input, yet both pairs of speakers have seperate woofer/ tweeter sockets. maybe the previous owner modified the first pair as there are no markings on the back cover of this pair. Hope he can find the missing crossovers sometime before I get myseld a suitable 3 way crossover.
Kffern
I'd think of the panels as raw drivers and build the electronics around them. That way, you are off to the races with good looking soon-to-be-functional panels and ignoring tired old electronics which probably has too many tweaks and kludges in the electronics.
Ben
Ben
I have been playing with these for a while. Took a bit of a break over christmas. I took a burnt bass panel to Rob at Er audio and he says that the diaphragm is around 25 microns thick!
Looks like it will be difficult to rediaphragm them. the frame has small tubes for the screws jutting out through the spacers making fitting a new diaphragm difficult. The spacers on their own would probably distort.
One way would be to fit the spacers to a piece of wood with shorter pins that don't jut above the spacer. Then fit a heat shrinkable diaphragm and put it back in the frame and then heat shrink it.
What kind of heat shrink diapragms are there? Solarlite used for model airplanes was suggested but I can't find out how thick it is or a local supplier.
The next problem is the HV power supplies. I finally built a HV probe and went about measuring. The outputs are all over the place. The pair I was listenig to has bass supplies around 5 and over 6 KV and the tweeters 2.6 and 3.4KV.
The other pair which I had just started to listen to with the TL subs was bothering me with a recessed midrange. Turns out the bass HV supplies are less than 1KV. The tweeters seemed OK around 2.5 to 3 KV.
All the trimmers were sealed with lacquer. I have around 8 spare HV supplies which measure all over the place - 2 to 7 KV. I changed the trimmers on a few of them. Two seem good and for the tweeter I can change the output between 2.5 and 3.5 KV and the woofere between 2.5 and 6.2 kV.
The rest barely respond to changes in the trimmer and looks like when I turn the pot in it increase slightly. The bass seems fixed around 5.8 to 6 KV.
I really want to have consistant Hv supplies.
Can someone tell me what the large grey capacitor like thing is? The only difference between the tweeter and bass supplies is the number of caps in the voltage multiplier. I expected a 555 timer IC as I see in the supplies I googled.
I will post pictures later today. I am at work and the browser won't let me.
kffern
Looks like it will be difficult to rediaphragm them. the frame has small tubes for the screws jutting out through the spacers making fitting a new diaphragm difficult. The spacers on their own would probably distort.
One way would be to fit the spacers to a piece of wood with shorter pins that don't jut above the spacer. Then fit a heat shrinkable diaphragm and put it back in the frame and then heat shrink it.
What kind of heat shrink diapragms are there? Solarlite used for model airplanes was suggested but I can't find out how thick it is or a local supplier.
The next problem is the HV power supplies. I finally built a HV probe and went about measuring. The outputs are all over the place. The pair I was listenig to has bass supplies around 5 and over 6 KV and the tweeters 2.6 and 3.4KV.
The other pair which I had just started to listen to with the TL subs was bothering me with a recessed midrange. Turns out the bass HV supplies are less than 1KV. The tweeters seemed OK around 2.5 to 3 KV.
All the trimmers were sealed with lacquer. I have around 8 spare HV supplies which measure all over the place - 2 to 7 KV. I changed the trimmers on a few of them. Two seem good and for the tweeter I can change the output between 2.5 and 3.5 KV and the woofere between 2.5 and 6.2 kV.
The rest barely respond to changes in the trimmer and looks like when I turn the pot in it increase slightly. The bass seems fixed around 5.8 to 6 KV.
I really want to have consistant Hv supplies.
Can someone tell me what the large grey capacitor like thing is? The only difference between the tweeter and bass supplies is the number of caps in the voltage multiplier. I expected a 555 timer IC as I see in the supplies I googled.
I will post pictures later today. I am at work and the browser won't let me.
kffern
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I hope these are better
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Be sure to connect the negative Probe of your voltmeter to the mid tap of the audio transformer..at least with the newer kings, the HV side of the polarizing supply is completely floating, so ground at he HV side of the little switching transformer is only connected to the audio transformer mid tap...
have fun, Philipp
have fun, Philipp