Thanks for the flowers guys Best USB cable is no cable ?
So I try to remove it:
😀
Next step, seperate Digital from Analogue and Left from right channel. I have started to read all posts from the beginnning (actually, I'm page 150
) but did not find if I have to separate grounds too ?
I have also try to remove the cinemags but I have "mono "mode after whereas I have two mono blocks, not earthed:
Any idea of what I could miss ?
That said, I very very happy with this DDDAC, for sure my best source, better then than my UFO JLB which received "Diapason d'or" some years ago. 😱 Many thanks Doede, even it is not finish, each listenning are for the music and not to know if my bass or my treble is good sounding !
Bravo ! 🙂
So I try to remove it:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
😀
Next step, seperate Digital from Analogue and Left from right channel. I have started to read all posts from the beginnning (actually, I'm page 150
) but did not find if I have to separate grounds too ?I have also try to remove the cinemags but I have "mono "mode after whereas I have two mono blocks, not earthed:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Any idea of what I could miss ?
That said, I very very happy with this DDDAC, for sure my best source, better then than my UFO JLB which received "Diapason d'or" some years ago. 😱 Many thanks Doede, even it is not finish, each listenning are for the music and not to know if my bass or my treble is good sounding !
Bravo ! 🙂
You mean you removed the cinemags and wired direct from rca to pos & neg output and you have mixing of left and right channels? Do you have any resistors across your rca plugs?
Yes but I don't have resistors across my rca plug. But RCA's ground connected to DDDAC's GND (for remove hum).
Have you removed 10uH inductances and 10R ?
Confused... So you have you rca plugs wired direct to pos and neg, but you also have Gnd connected? That's not right. You need 1 or the other. So we assume you use pos for rca center, either you use neg for the outer and that shall give you a low mV dc offset at the rca plug, or you use gnd/common which will give you around 2.7v dc offset, which you will need to block with either a series capacitor or a transformer.
Just few things that may help DIY-ers bring the sound to (even) greater levels with minimum amount of money spent…
The way I like to start with any build is with power supplies. That is what I did this time as well. The set-up that gave me the best results was with Silmic II 3,300uF / 50V and Black Gate N type 100uF / 50V. I know this combination very well. The final decoupling cap is 0.1uF MKP / 250V. The combination was tested extensively with other DAC’s that required only +5V to run, and the end result was simply outstanding.
The motherboard received additional pair of Black Gate N type 100uF / 50V caps. The S/PDIF section has a pair of Silmic II 100uF / 50V. Little red decoupling caps had to go to underside. There is pulse transformer there as well for S/PDIF .....once I manage to stop listening to USB... (!!!)
DAC boards have Rref resistors replaced with Dale 6K / 0.1 % tolerance. That’s it for the DAC boards.
The I/V resistors are TX2575 types, 33ohms / 0.1% tolerance. They are $15.54 each – I’d pay double that in an instant! They are simply brilliant for this job.
I wired the RCA’s with shield going to the negative output, and hot going to the positive output. My DC values are 2.640V on all pins. I don’t have any imbalance. This was planned for when I ordered Rref and I/V resistors in 0.1% tolerance flavour.
The I2S bridge was initially replaced with 3cm long piece of IDC ribbon cable and 10-pin connectors at each side, that I made for 2 dollars. Compared to the original piece that was 4 times longer, the improvement was immediately obvious. The next step was to solder 5X twisted pairs (I pulled out from Cat5e cable) directly to the 10-pin connectors. Now, this was a BIG improvement. The interesting thing I noticed (above other benefits) after I did this mod was the perception of a reduced amount of distortions and more relaxed sound.
The USB cable is made from single twisted pair (for D+ and D- only) I pulled out from the same Cat5e cable. I left the shield there, and just twisted it tightly around the twisted pair. The outer sleeve is made from cotton. The side that goes to the WaveIO card is soldered to 10 pin IDC connector, and plugged into a header. This USB (another 2 bucks) sounds very easy & relaxed with a lots of detail and extension.
The through wiring that connects the DAC boards and the motherboard is 0.8mm2 annealed pure silver solid core cable. I didn’t use the wire supplied with the kit.
The solder was Mudorf 9.5% silver solder.
I had a demo night few nights back. Few of the guys are musicians and are very familiar with how the bass guitar and piano should sound (they play these instruments for living). They also love high end sound and are addicted to modifications. They were impressed, saying that it was the best they heard so far in any setup, coming from a PC. In addition, the sound stage was trying to lift my ceiling another floor up.
I suppose the best is to try to avoid output coupling capacitors and transformers if the cost is to be kept at bay. Initial listening test I did was with the coupling caps… very poor indeed. Using neg and pos outputs wired directly to RCA’s brought unbelievable improvement.
I use JRiver, no sound manipulation of any kind. The driver is WaveIO WASAPI USB2.0
The focus here was on sound tuning while keeping the costs down. I hope that my little contribution will help DIY-ers obtain better sound. DDDAC has immense potential.
Nick
The way I like to start with any build is with power supplies. That is what I did this time as well. The set-up that gave me the best results was with Silmic II 3,300uF / 50V and Black Gate N type 100uF / 50V. I know this combination very well. The final decoupling cap is 0.1uF MKP / 250V. The combination was tested extensively with other DAC’s that required only +5V to run, and the end result was simply outstanding.
The motherboard received additional pair of Black Gate N type 100uF / 50V caps. The S/PDIF section has a pair of Silmic II 100uF / 50V. Little red decoupling caps had to go to underside. There is pulse transformer there as well for S/PDIF .....once I manage to stop listening to USB... (!!!)
DAC boards have Rref resistors replaced with Dale 6K / 0.1 % tolerance. That’s it for the DAC boards.
The I/V resistors are TX2575 types, 33ohms / 0.1% tolerance. They are $15.54 each – I’d pay double that in an instant! They are simply brilliant for this job.
I wired the RCA’s with shield going to the negative output, and hot going to the positive output. My DC values are 2.640V on all pins. I don’t have any imbalance. This was planned for when I ordered Rref and I/V resistors in 0.1% tolerance flavour.
The I2S bridge was initially replaced with 3cm long piece of IDC ribbon cable and 10-pin connectors at each side, that I made for 2 dollars. Compared to the original piece that was 4 times longer, the improvement was immediately obvious. The next step was to solder 5X twisted pairs (I pulled out from Cat5e cable) directly to the 10-pin connectors. Now, this was a BIG improvement. The interesting thing I noticed (above other benefits) after I did this mod was the perception of a reduced amount of distortions and more relaxed sound.
The USB cable is made from single twisted pair (for D+ and D- only) I pulled out from the same Cat5e cable. I left the shield there, and just twisted it tightly around the twisted pair. The outer sleeve is made from cotton. The side that goes to the WaveIO card is soldered to 10 pin IDC connector, and plugged into a header. This USB (another 2 bucks) sounds very easy & relaxed with a lots of detail and extension.
The through wiring that connects the DAC boards and the motherboard is 0.8mm2 annealed pure silver solid core cable. I didn’t use the wire supplied with the kit.
The solder was Mudorf 9.5% silver solder.
I had a demo night few nights back. Few of the guys are musicians and are very familiar with how the bass guitar and piano should sound (they play these instruments for living). They also love high end sound and are addicted to modifications. They were impressed, saying that it was the best they heard so far in any setup, coming from a PC. In addition, the sound stage was trying to lift my ceiling another floor up.
I suppose the best is to try to avoid output coupling capacitors and transformers if the cost is to be kept at bay. Initial listening test I did was with the coupling caps… very poor indeed. Using neg and pos outputs wired directly to RCA’s brought unbelievable improvement.
I use JRiver, no sound manipulation of any kind. The driver is WaveIO WASAPI USB2.0
The focus here was on sound tuning while keeping the costs down. I hope that my little contribution will help DIY-ers obtain better sound. DDDAC has immense potential.
Nick
Attachments
Yes and yes. I just decouple after the super regs with a 0.1uf film /foil for analogue and 0.068uf pps on digital psu
Sorry for my late reply, weekends are too busy !
I'll test later again following your instructions and feedback 😉
Tents and Bellesons but all these changes improve sound with standard on board regs
Lundahl chokes in place
OK, I was lost! 😛
LL1638 8H and LL1694 1.5A received... and installed 😀
Left and right separated too, 2200uF -> LL1638 -> 2200uF -> LL1694 -> 2200uF, one line for one channel each choke in improved common mode rejection.
I don't know how can I explain what I am hearing, it is magic! 😱
Thanks again Doede and thank you also all crazy DIYers 😉
Julien, happy! 😀
OK, I was lost! 😛
LL1638 8H and LL1694 1.5A received... and installed 😀
Left and right separated too, 2200uF -> LL1638 -> 2200uF -> LL1694 -> 2200uF, one line for one channel each choke in improved common mode rejection.
I don't know how can I explain what I am hearing, it is magic! 😱
Thanks again Doede and thank you also all crazy DIYers 😉
Julien, happy! 😀
Hi Julien, I hope you no longer playing with that Alps pot... 😉
You'd be better of adjusting volume in software if nessesary, even if you'll lose bit depth.
You'd be better of adjusting volume in software if nessesary, even if you'll lose bit depth.
This is the next step !
But it is not easy to choose a solution 😕
I have my DDDAC and my two mono blocks. The easiest is to have a pot direct after the Cinemags and then, go to my amps (their first stage grid tube is connected direct to inner RCA, grid is also connected to ground via 180K).
I think that I don't need Cinemags but I have to check again.
TVC transformers are a little expensive. I'm looking for stepped attenuators, I have ELMA 6 positions(I think it will be enough for me) but I have to find a calculator. And I don't know if shunt is a good solution.
I have try LDR too but it don't work very well.
But I will find ! 😀
But it is not easy to choose a solution 😕
I have my DDDAC and my two mono blocks. The easiest is to have a pot direct after the Cinemags and then, go to my amps (their first stage grid tube is connected direct to inner RCA, grid is also connected to ground via 180K).
I think that I don't need Cinemags but I have to check again.
TVC transformers are a little expensive. I'm looking for stepped attenuators, I have ELMA 6 positions(I think it will be enough for me) but I have to find a calculator. And I don't know if shunt is a good solution.
I have try LDR too but it don't work very well.
But I will find ! 😀
Shunt isn't a good solution because the impedance seen by the Cinemag will vary.
Series is the way to go.
Series is the way to go.
Yes, that is why I hesitate but, if I use the cinemags in my amps input instead of the DDDAC's output, I will not care anymore of the cinemags's charge (putting a 10K to their output of course), no ?
Have a look at Dave Slagle's autoformer at $200 plus a couple hrs work you may get sota that you seek.
intact audio
I read Aurther Salvadore's analysis of EMIA volume control, took the plunge and bought the autoformers. I agree with his assessment.
REFERENCE COMPONENTS-Line Stages
seems to be very interesting, so after I will not need Cinemags anymore ?
For sale ! Pair of Cinemags, as new 😀
Hello Stijn,
waiting for the autoformer suggests by wlowes, I rummaged through the drawers at work and found parts for make a small stepped attenuator. I matched perfectly the resistors, I have in total 10440 ohms, which will give with the 180K of my input amp 9867 ohms to charge the cinemags.
Let's try it tonight !
EDIT: Photo...
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
You must be working in a nice place. 🙂
Contrary to some, I find the big blue Alps very dull sounding.
This stepped attenuator will make a noticeable difference. Even simply controlling the volume in software sound pretty good, the noise floor of the DDDAC, mine at least, is very low so that's not really an issue.
If you want to investigate further. I use a shunted (I think 2KOhm shunt was the sweetspot) with a 10KOhm stepped attenuator, between the POS/NEG terminals, which worked very well with my current source power amps (no Cinemags btw, sold those too.. ). Even though theoretically it might not be optimal I hear no difference in SQ at various levels, which is claimed to be the culprit of the “shunt”.
But I fancy giving something like a Autotransfomer or a Sowther attenuator a go as well.
http://www.sowter.co.uk/acatalog/E_A_Sowter_Ltd_ATTENUATORS_11.html
Contrary to some, I find the big blue Alps very dull sounding.
This stepped attenuator will make a noticeable difference. Even simply controlling the volume in software sound pretty good, the noise floor of the DDDAC, mine at least, is very low so that's not really an issue.
If you want to investigate further. I use a shunted (I think 2KOhm shunt was the sweetspot) with a 10KOhm stepped attenuator, between the POS/NEG terminals, which worked very well with my current source power amps (no Cinemags btw, sold those too.. ). Even though theoretically it might not be optimal I hear no difference in SQ at various levels, which is claimed to be the culprit of the “shunt”.
But I fancy giving something like a Autotransfomer or a Sowther attenuator a go as well.
http://www.sowter.co.uk/acatalog/E_A_Sowter_Ltd_ATTENUATORS_11.html
Last edited:
That elma switch would work nicely with your Slagle autoformers if you bought the one that require diy wiring. When you put it in, like anything give it at least 20 hrs to settle in. before serious listening. It opens up beautifully over the first hours. Goes from good to great in 100 hrs.