Hi Bach On,
Post #400: "...I'll keep your design on my short-list for solutions if it turns out our bass cabinets aren't quite enough. That would probably be a good winter project..."
Hopefully soon, I'll have more than enough time to go over this again, and provide you w/ an updated drawing. I'll simplify the path, and eliminate unused voids, and I'll shoot for a compromise T/S parameter set that reflects the data-bass sealed box curve. With Mark's measurement and the JAG Fix in Hornresp I should have everything I need.
Regards,
Post #400: "...I'll keep your design on my short-list for solutions if it turns out our bass cabinets aren't quite enough. That would probably be a good winter project..."
Hopefully soon, I'll have more than enough time to go over this again, and provide you w/ an updated drawing. I'll simplify the path, and eliminate unused voids, and I'll shoot for a compromise T/S parameter set that reflects the data-bass sealed box curve. With Mark's measurement and the JAG Fix in Hornresp I should have everything I need.
Regards,
Oliver that is a pretty cool looking design. 5' x 5' is perfect for building with real Baltic birch.
Hi NWCGrad,
Yes. I just mirrored one of the attempts at a T-TQWT for the SI HT18. With (quite) a bit more work this could be made to work. Too busy right now, gotta run 🙂 .
Regards,
Yes. I just mirrored one of the attempts at a T-TQWT for the SI HT18. With (quite) a bit more work this could be made to work. Too busy right now, gotta run 🙂 .
Regards,
Some asked me to post progress updates. So here's the latest.
Mark Andersen came yesterday. He installed the two Peterson daughterboards. BUT - this caused some problems. Suddenly, the 8 foot Oboe stopped working. The couplers are not working with the daughterboards in place.
And the Peterson MIDI equipment is somehow programmed to send NOTE ON/OFF signals that are six notes too high. The pipes play at pitch, but a MIDI notes is transposed. Mark called Bob D. at Peterson. Bob is going to come and see if he can straighten out the problems. As it is now, we still can't get the Peterson equipment to send the correct signals to the Artisan Sound Engine.
Some of the people in our church are getting concerned. We've been without the organ for over six weeks. And Homecoming is coming up on Oct. 9th (not the 11th as I stated in another thread). My finger mobility is getting better. But without any 16 foot pedal stops, the organ pipes alone aren't sufficient for church - especially with a larger crowd.
Mark Andersen has done a good job for us. But he doesn't have some of the Peterson diagnostic equipment and software. He called Bob who feels that Colby has made some mistakes in the setup.
So, once again, we are in a waiting game. X-(
Bach On
Mark Andersen came yesterday. He installed the two Peterson daughterboards. BUT - this caused some problems. Suddenly, the 8 foot Oboe stopped working. The couplers are not working with the daughterboards in place.
And the Peterson MIDI equipment is somehow programmed to send NOTE ON/OFF signals that are six notes too high. The pipes play at pitch, but a MIDI notes is transposed. Mark called Bob D. at Peterson. Bob is going to come and see if he can straighten out the problems. As it is now, we still can't get the Peterson equipment to send the correct signals to the Artisan Sound Engine.
Some of the people in our church are getting concerned. We've been without the organ for over six weeks. And Homecoming is coming up on Oct. 9th (not the 11th as I stated in another thread). My finger mobility is getting better. But without any 16 foot pedal stops, the organ pipes alone aren't sufficient for church - especially with a larger crowd.
Mark Andersen has done a good job for us. But he doesn't have some of the Peterson diagnostic equipment and software. He called Bob who feels that Colby has made some mistakes in the setup.
So, once again, we are in a waiting game. X-(
Bach On
Fallbacks???
In as much as you now have no small amount of firepower in your loudspeakers, all you need is a rented keyboard (and Mac with midi app) and amps with enough watts. Temporary organ. Just wire all the speakers together (appropriately, of course) and you might just have some righteous sound.
Ben
In as much as you now have no small amount of firepower in your loudspeakers, all you need is a rented keyboard (and Mac with midi app) and amps with enough watts. Temporary organ. Just wire all the speakers together (appropriately, of course) and you might just have some righteous sound.
Ben
I got a call from Bob Dommer at Peterson in Chicago yesterday. He's the guy who talked me through testing this week via phone. He determined that 6 of the reed switches that turn stops ON and OFF on the organ have gone bad. He also determined that the MIDI motherboard has gone bad. So we're getting all new Peterson MIDI equipment.
He is flying in on Monday afternoon to fix the Peterson problems on our organ. He'll spend the night and work to get the organ sending the correct MIDI messages.
Mark Andersen from Artisan is coming around NOON. Then Bob and Mark will work together to get the equipment working as intended. Bob will fly home on Wed.
These are the two guys who probably know their respective systems best. So I'm very pleased that this may represent the dream team to finally get us up and running correctly.
I guess that now I'm finally going to learn if the sound system I've setup will perform as planned. (gulp)
Keep your fingers crossed.
Bach On
He is flying in on Monday afternoon to fix the Peterson problems on our organ. He'll spend the night and work to get the organ sending the correct MIDI messages.
Mark Andersen from Artisan is coming around NOON. Then Bob and Mark will work together to get the equipment working as intended. Bob will fly home on Wed.
These are the two guys who probably know their respective systems best. So I'm very pleased that this may represent the dream team to finally get us up and running correctly.
I guess that now I'm finally going to learn if the sound system I've setup will perform as planned. (gulp)
Keep your fingers crossed.
Bach On
I don't know how I would be able to keep responsibilities/liabilities/warrantees on the one hand and costs on the other hand under control.
Since folks on this website are all DIY kinds of people, we'd want to have sufficient mastery of the system at least to understand it well, let alone maintain it.
When I work with architects, I tell 'em they have to deliver an operating manual for their building. Likewise when I do pedestrian design.
B.
Since folks on this website are all DIY kinds of people, we'd want to have sufficient mastery of the system at least to understand it well, let alone maintain it.
When I work with architects, I tell 'em they have to deliver an operating manual for their building. Likewise when I do pedestrian design.
B.
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It will work.
One question.
Have you fixed your Rolls box?
That will change how loud you can push your boxes, and the natural roll off.
Crossed fingers do make up for proper preparation.
And I think you have done the proper preparations.
One question.
Have you fixed your Rolls box?
That will change how loud you can push your boxes, and the natural roll off.
Crossed fingers do make up for proper preparation.
And I think you have done the proper preparations.
Mark,
Alas, the Rolls box has yet to be upgraded. I may try to do that tomorrow night. But it is likely that we won't have it for the initial setup. I know - I've been slack! But it was hard to do delicate work with my busted digit. But things are looking and feeling better in that area. So maybe soon.
I've got a 10 K thermister attached to one of the pipes and threaded back to the sound engine. I also have a box that contains a 10 K potentiometer to override the thermister tuning. That box also has a four position rotary switch that will allow some presets for the Artisan Alterable Voices. Mark Andersen checked these out last week and said they would work fine. We're going to mount the box under the manuals on the kick panel so I can reach it from the bench. The Artisan connector interface will be mounted on the inside of the console right behind this box. It connects to the Artisan Sound Engine by a CAT-5 cable I've already run.
We've got all the audio cables plugged into the amps. The uninterruptible power supply is connected. It only powers the sound engine. And the remote switch is connected to turn the amps ON and OFF when the organ is powered up. The monitor is powered by a different circuit to run.
I think all that remains now is to connect the CAT-5 cable between the Peterson MIDI OUT and the Artisan board in the console. Then we have to make sure the Peterson equipment is sending the correct signals to the sound engine.
Then it will be time to adjust sound levels stop by stop to balance the pipes and digital sounds.
I don't want to count chickens too soon, but I'm actually fairly optimistic that the sound equipment will sound good. But the proof will be when we hear it driven by the Artisan module.
Bach On
Alas, the Rolls box has yet to be upgraded. I may try to do that tomorrow night. But it is likely that we won't have it for the initial setup. I know - I've been slack! But it was hard to do delicate work with my busted digit. But things are looking and feeling better in that area. So maybe soon.
I've got a 10 K thermister attached to one of the pipes and threaded back to the sound engine. I also have a box that contains a 10 K potentiometer to override the thermister tuning. That box also has a four position rotary switch that will allow some presets for the Artisan Alterable Voices. Mark Andersen checked these out last week and said they would work fine. We're going to mount the box under the manuals on the kick panel so I can reach it from the bench. The Artisan connector interface will be mounted on the inside of the console right behind this box. It connects to the Artisan Sound Engine by a CAT-5 cable I've already run.
We've got all the audio cables plugged into the amps. The uninterruptible power supply is connected. It only powers the sound engine. And the remote switch is connected to turn the amps ON and OFF when the organ is powered up. The monitor is powered by a different circuit to run.
I think all that remains now is to connect the CAT-5 cable between the Peterson MIDI OUT and the Artisan board in the console. Then we have to make sure the Peterson equipment is sending the correct signals to the sound engine.
Then it will be time to adjust sound levels stop by stop to balance the pipes and digital sounds.
I don't want to count chickens too soon, but I'm actually fairly optimistic that the sound equipment will sound good. But the proof will be when we hear it driven by the Artisan module.
Bach On
Nice touch using a thermister to track the pitch changes.
I admit to learning something new today.
And to make you feel a little better in the finger department I'm nursing quite a case of the shingles. It never rains. It pours. Sixth time in my life. Hopefully it will be my last time. Right....
I admit to learning something new today.
And to make you feel a little better in the finger department I'm nursing quite a case of the shingles. It never rains. It pours. Sixth time in my life. Hopefully it will be my last time. Right....
I've had some choir members who had that. I got the shot after that. It is supposed to prevent it. I'm VERY sorry to hear you're dealing with it. Like 3rd degree burns - is what I hear.
BO
BO
It's exciting.
Something you only wish on your evilest acquaintance. Then you renege.
It's getting better.
I have to laugh at the number of guys in audio named Mark.
Lots.
So busted by little reed switches.
Are these original to the Estey?
Something you only wish on your evilest acquaintance. Then you renege.
It's getting better.
I have to laugh at the number of guys in audio named Mark.
Lots.
So busted by little reed switches.
Are these original to the Estey?
Bob Dommer addressed and fixed all the Peterson issues yesterday. It turned out that the reed switches were not the problem with some of the non-working tabs. There was a problem with the wiring to the plugs. The positive wires weren't providing power. They worked when we tested ONLY because I was feeding them current from the positive. He ran new wires for those switches and soldered them. Then he replaced the entire MIDI system with new components.
We also had some stops that had been incorrectly setup to run both pipes and the Artisan voices. He fixed that. We tested all keys, stops, and controls. They all appear to do what they are supposed to do. We do have to program the Crescendo pedal. But that has to wait until the digital sounds are connected.
Mark Andersen is coming today. We should be able to finally get the Artisan Sound Engine connected. Talked to him by phone. I think he has a bad case of the Mongolian Crud. He sounded awful. I'll probably end up catching it. But I'll accept the risk if we can get the work done today.
I found out a something today, after talking with Bob. Artisan, Viscout, Hauptwerk and a few other systems use MIDI to work. Walker doesn't use MIDI. Instead, it is setup like a new division - somewhat like adding another manual to an organ. And MIDI is slower than the Walker method. I played some MIDI files from my computer just using the pipes. The console had trouble with very fast passages. An example would be fast repeated notes - such as 32nd notes. I don't know if this will be true of the Artisan system too.
Onward - and hopefully upward!
Bach On
We also had some stops that had been incorrectly setup to run both pipes and the Artisan voices. He fixed that. We tested all keys, stops, and controls. They all appear to do what they are supposed to do. We do have to program the Crescendo pedal. But that has to wait until the digital sounds are connected.
Mark Andersen is coming today. We should be able to finally get the Artisan Sound Engine connected. Talked to him by phone. I think he has a bad case of the Mongolian Crud. He sounded awful. I'll probably end up catching it. But I'll accept the risk if we can get the work done today.
I found out a something today, after talking with Bob. Artisan, Viscout, Hauptwerk and a few other systems use MIDI to work. Walker doesn't use MIDI. Instead, it is setup like a new division - somewhat like adding another manual to an organ. And MIDI is slower than the Walker method. I played some MIDI files from my computer just using the pipes. The console had trouble with very fast passages. An example would be fast repeated notes - such as 32nd notes. I don't know if this will be true of the Artisan system too.
Onward - and hopefully upward!
Bach On
Wiring!
And now you are really moving towards a functioning system.
First time I ever heard of MIDI being slow.
How do the Artisan voices sound?
And now you are really moving towards a functioning system.
First time I ever heard of MIDI being slow.
How do the Artisan voices sound?
Mark Andersen came today. I wish I could say we were off to the races. But we aren't.
The Peterson MIDI is sending SYSEX data to the Artisan sound module. SYSEX messages are sent when stops are turned on and off by hand. Use of the Swell Expression Pedal also generates them.
The Artisan Sound Engine is having trouble with these. They are causing some process that results in ALL NOTES OFF being executed on the sound engine. Mark has taken the Sound Engine home to create an algorithm that will fix this problem. I asked if he could do it at the church. He said it would require hours of work and he had other things to do at home.
I'm not happy. But throwing a fit would not have changed anything. So we'll have to wait for him to do his programming and bring the Sound Engine back. He said, "just as soon as I possibly can." I expect we're looking at Friday or Saturday.
He called me from on the road and asked me to make a MIDI file of my cutting ON and OFF all stops while playing a five note sequence up and down for each stop. I did that and e-mailed it to him.
Bob has gone back to Chicago. He knew exactly what to do with the Peterson equipment at every stage. He also gave Mark and I a lesson on how to use the MIDI Resource Controller.
In talking with him, I asked if Colby had asked him to come. He said he and Mark had decided he should come to address the multiple problems. If he sends us a bill, I'm going to pass it on to Colby since some of what he had to do was correct mistakes they had made.
So once again we are in a holding pattern.
Bach On
The Peterson MIDI is sending SYSEX data to the Artisan sound module. SYSEX messages are sent when stops are turned on and off by hand. Use of the Swell Expression Pedal also generates them.
The Artisan Sound Engine is having trouble with these. They are causing some process that results in ALL NOTES OFF being executed on the sound engine. Mark has taken the Sound Engine home to create an algorithm that will fix this problem. I asked if he could do it at the church. He said it would require hours of work and he had other things to do at home.
I'm not happy. But throwing a fit would not have changed anything. So we'll have to wait for him to do his programming and bring the Sound Engine back. He said, "just as soon as I possibly can." I expect we're looking at Friday or Saturday.
He called me from on the road and asked me to make a MIDI file of my cutting ON and OFF all stops while playing a five note sequence up and down for each stop. I did that and e-mailed it to him.
Bob has gone back to Chicago. He knew exactly what to do with the Peterson equipment at every stage. He also gave Mark and I a lesson on how to use the MIDI Resource Controller.
In talking with him, I asked if Colby had asked him to come. He said he and Mark had decided he should come to address the multiple problems. If he sends us a bill, I'm going to pass it on to Colby since some of what he had to do was correct mistakes they had made.
So once again we are in a holding pattern.
Bach On
" Like apples of gold in silver carvings so are the correct words spoken at the proper time."
Oh how I wish I could remember that when I need to most!
Keep your chin up Ron. Your on the home stretch. Nothing in this level of complexity ever goes without ripples and hickups. Yep there's a hick in there somewhere!
Oh how I wish I could remember that when I need to most!
Keep your chin up Ron. Your on the home stretch. Nothing in this level of complexity ever goes without ripples and hickups. Yep there's a hick in there somewhere!
I'm trying to be patient. I'm honestly trying. But I keep remembering the one about the hungry buzzard that said, "Patience my a$$! I'm going to kill something!"
Unless I'm grossly misinformed, I think a great many pipe organs are based on Peterson controls. I find it incredulous that Artisan has never installed one of their sound engines on an organ with Peterson components. Otherwise, the work around would be something they would already have. We could have bought Artisan MIDI components. But our organ tech advised that we'd be better off with all the parts from the same manufacturer. So we went with Peterson for the MIDI parts.
Mark Andersen called me this morning and said he's going to practically have to rewrite all the code for the sound system. He said he MIGHT be done on Friday, but that Monday was a more realistic possibility.
What I keep thinking is what do we do if he brings it up here and discovers something is still wrong? Like Fred Sanford, "Uh oh. I feel the Big One coming on!"
It looks like I'll have to play the piano this Sunday even though my finger is still a little tender. The ladies I've used for the past five weeks are unavailable.
And the following week is Homecoming.
Arghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Ben - yes. But Bach was a most exceptional man. I suspect living with 23 children does that to you.
Bach On
Unless I'm grossly misinformed, I think a great many pipe organs are based on Peterson controls. I find it incredulous that Artisan has never installed one of their sound engines on an organ with Peterson components. Otherwise, the work around would be something they would already have. We could have bought Artisan MIDI components. But our organ tech advised that we'd be better off with all the parts from the same manufacturer. So we went with Peterson for the MIDI parts.
Mark Andersen called me this morning and said he's going to practically have to rewrite all the code for the sound system. He said he MIGHT be done on Friday, but that Monday was a more realistic possibility.
What I keep thinking is what do we do if he brings it up here and discovers something is still wrong? Like Fred Sanford, "Uh oh. I feel the Big One coming on!"
It looks like I'll have to play the piano this Sunday even though my finger is still a little tender. The ladies I've used for the past five weeks are unavailable.
And the following week is Homecoming.
Arghhhhhhhhhhhh!!!
Ben - yes. But Bach was a most exceptional man. I suspect living with 23 children does that to you.
Bach On
Might be that not so many of the Artisan modules have been installed?
Or other installations used a different MIDI interface.
If I was dealing with your tribulations I would have my suspicions as well.
Or other installations used a different MIDI interface.
If I was dealing with your tribulations I would have my suspicions as well.
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