Well in the few hours I've had them they are incredibly neutral sounding. But that's probably due to still being in the box.
It's quand même bizarre than nobody made a diy circular 1" to 2" ESL tweeter with instead the frame, the easier wire technique with very thin copper cable for polarisation... two circular plastic fram to sandwich and strech the film and a nice needle with very thin coper cable et voilà ! Need a surgeon ?
Not possible with such narrow frame because the film material will be too streched to move in relation to the +/- polarization surfaces ?
The Raven 3 was 30 kG ??? Expensive in France when it was sourcable at HP System shop !
Not possible with such narrow frame because the film material will be too streched to move in relation to the +/- polarization surfaces ?
The Raven 3 was 30 kG ??? Expensive in France when it was sourcable at HP System shop !
How exactly is that relevant to directivity, unless one listens in a padded cell with one's head in a vise?
The adjective for a loudspeaker with a wide midrange crossing to a wide-directivty tweeter is "low-fidelity." It does not matter how expensive, rare, or indeed high-performance-in-isolation the particular parts used may be. The system design is so inherently deficient that it destroys whatever virtues the parts may have.
That is one reason why bleating about "best [insert driver type here]" in isolation is just a less satisfying variant of pumping one's fist in front of one's hips.
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Scott,
From your comment on the Raven sounding thin, I assume you've heard both the Ravens and the Raals. You say the Ravens have a thin sound compared to the Raals, why do you think this is?
I've seen the ribbons for the Raven 3.2 and they are less than paper thin, now I haven't seen the Raal 140-15 ribbons but I have watched the youtube on replacing them and it shows you need to use a heat-gun to shrink them to a taught state. After watching that it made me wonder what exactly are the Raal ribbons made of that they would shrink like that.
Maybe that's why they both sound different, I don't know. Have you compared the thickness of both ribbon materials?
From your comment on the Raven sounding thin, I assume you've heard both the Ravens and the Raals. You say the Ravens have a thin sound compared to the Raals, why do you think this is?
I've seen the ribbons for the Raven 3.2 and they are less than paper thin, now I haven't seen the Raal 140-15 ribbons but I have watched the youtube on replacing them and it shows you need to use a heat-gun to shrink them to a taught state. After watching that it made me wonder what exactly are the Raal ribbons made of that they would shrink like that.
Maybe that's why they both sound different, I don't know. Have you compared the thickness of both ribbon materials?
I'll comment a bit...
ScottG- I've used and really liked the TB BeCu 25-1743S tweeters. It's a shame they are NLA.
WTS- I was the person whom described the 70-20 as dull, and others have disagreed with me. In the context of that experience, I found them overly sterile for what I typically prefer. This does not mean they are bad by any stretch of the imagination. No harm no foul.
Jon- if you like the small Airborne, you need to try the RT5002. I've taken my Nephila project to several events and fellow-builders' homes. Everytime, I'm finding that they ooze micro-detail quite well. If there is a chime or triangle in a piece auditioned, the RT5002 will present the pulsed nodal-decay of the instrument, rather than just lessening in output as most other tweeters will do. They are very spacious and clear. I find they have the realism I listen for from a driver, whereas I did not hear that from the RAALs I've heard.
I have a set of Dayton AMT1-4 (Mundorf membrane) AMT's to try out in the near future.
The AST2560 from AC is a wonderful unit, used dipolar or monopolar. Sweet and clean.
As to the HD bits, I am in agreement that sometimes in planars/AMT/ribbons, it matters a bit less. For instance, the Beston RT003C (cheap, I know!) has an HD that measures higher than 2%, and it still sounds very good when done right. Brushed snares and cymbals sound immaculate through these.
TLabs- This manufacturer makes some of the best domes out there, and all I've auditioned make me smile. I have a set of MgO to be used soon.
I've heard the Magico Be (SS) domes, and found them to be as I prefer in terms of dome tweeters and xover voicing. They have the realism I like. However, I did not really care for the TAD Be coaxes. I feel they could have had better results.
Later,
Wolf
ScottG- I've used and really liked the TB BeCu 25-1743S tweeters. It's a shame they are NLA.
WTS- I was the person whom described the 70-20 as dull, and others have disagreed with me. In the context of that experience, I found them overly sterile for what I typically prefer. This does not mean they are bad by any stretch of the imagination. No harm no foul.
Jon- if you like the small Airborne, you need to try the RT5002. I've taken my Nephila project to several events and fellow-builders' homes. Everytime, I'm finding that they ooze micro-detail quite well. If there is a chime or triangle in a piece auditioned, the RT5002 will present the pulsed nodal-decay of the instrument, rather than just lessening in output as most other tweeters will do. They are very spacious and clear. I find they have the realism I listen for from a driver, whereas I did not hear that from the RAALs I've heard.
I have a set of Dayton AMT1-4 (Mundorf membrane) AMT's to try out in the near future.
The AST2560 from AC is a wonderful unit, used dipolar or monopolar. Sweet and clean.
As to the HD bits, I am in agreement that sometimes in planars/AMT/ribbons, it matters a bit less. For instance, the Beston RT003C (cheap, I know!) has an HD that measures higher than 2%, and it still sounds very good when done right. Brushed snares and cymbals sound immaculate through these.
TLabs- This manufacturer makes some of the best domes out there, and all I've auditioned make me smile. I have a set of MgO to be used soon.
I've heard the Magico Be (SS) domes, and found them to be as I prefer in terms of dome tweeters and xover voicing. They have the realism I like. However, I did not really care for the TAD Be coaxes. I feel they could have had better results.
Later,
Wolf
Hi Wolf,
So maybe you could give us your list of favorite tweeters and why you liked them etc and whether you like them in a 2 or 3 way system etc., as it sounds like you've had a chance to check out a fair number of different tweeters.
So maybe you could give us your list of favorite tweeters and why you liked them etc and whether you like them in a 2 or 3 way system etc., as it sounds like you've had a chance to check out a fair number of different tweeters.
That would really take quite a while.....
I did that a bit awhile ago on PETT, but since then I've heard many more. It'd be tough to log my thoughts on so many good performing units.
I did not add before that I also really like the Visaton MHT12 Magnetostats. They also measure a touch high on HD, but after the blip is tamed they are very revealing and nice.
Later,
Wolf
Well this is the thread to do it in, can't take you that long and I'm sure lots of people would really appreciate your efforts and your views. Grab your old reviews and add the few to it that you've heard recently and paste it here.
SO who wants to hear Wolf's opinions on the tweeters he's heard thus far? I do.
SO who wants to hear Wolf's opinions on the tweeters he's heard thus far? I do.
The answer to that, and some...
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Wolf, thank you for your input. Yes, like WTS say: it's the good thread for comments, appreciation notes and ranking...
I understand perfectly why someone would consider the 70-20 as ''dull'' as they don't really sound like a classic ribbon does. That being said, i'm always using them with EQ corrections so the roll-off is not an issue; and they react very well to all corrections (except lower than 1.6khz of course).
But then again, if you consider the 70-20 ''dull'' pretty much ALL domes will be dull as well!
I find them very neutral and very easy to live with. The 70-20 is less like a Victoria Secret's model and more like a discreet and classy beauty, so let's call it the Audrey Hepburn of the tweeters.
(Yep. We've reach the point where we give female names to our drivers. Life is short!)
I understand perfectly why someone would consider the 70-20 as ''dull'' as they don't really sound like a classic ribbon does. That being said, i'm always using them with EQ corrections so the roll-off is not an issue; and they react very well to all corrections (except lower than 1.6khz of course).
But then again, if you consider the 70-20 ''dull'' pretty much ALL domes will be dull as well!
I find them very neutral and very easy to live with. The 70-20 is less like a Victoria Secret's model and more like a discreet and classy beauty, so let's call it the Audrey Hepburn of the tweeters.
(Yep. We've reach the point where we give female names to our drivers. Life is short!)
That's not the answer and I've tried talking about directivity and directivity matching myself and yet you don't seem to care. Pallas is talking about on a technical level and yet you have no answer.
Directivity matching and controlling directivity are crucial for excellent sound reproduction.
No matter how hard you push the technical button, the final judge is the combo brain/ears.
If you don't understand that very basic fact, no further discussion will be possible. And my guess is not further discussion will be possible.
Let's try with a cat. It's a bit clearer, isn't it ?
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If only that were true. The eyes play a huge role.
In a blind test, if you pick a cheap, ugly little cone tweeter over the rest, you'll want another listening test as you can't possibly have got it right. That shiny, sexy expensive tweeter just has to sound better. No one is free of that.
Yes that's true.
In fact, the brain and senses are not designed to listen to music/sound systems... But rather for surviving (and reproducing) purposes. With everything that implies.
speaking of blind test, and to put things in perspective:
I wouldn't bet more than 10 bucks on my ability to distinguish the RAAL 140-15D from the 70-20XR (EQ'd AND not EQ'd) but i'd put 20 bucks with the 210-10D!
Anyways, i wouldn't bet my life!
*i'm already learning from the midrange's blindtest... 😉
I wouldn't bet more than 10 bucks on my ability to distinguish the RAAL 140-15D from the 70-20XR (EQ'd AND not EQ'd) but i'd put 20 bucks with the 210-10D!
Anyways, i wouldn't bet my life!
*i'm already learning from the midrange's blindtest... 😉
Look Jon,
If you are unhappy with them Victoria Secret's model, you can always pass them to me. I don't think Audrey Hepburn that great, especially how she may be looking in her 50s.
Oon
If you are unhappy with them Victoria Secret's model, you can always pass them to me. I don't think Audrey Hepburn that great, especially how she may be looking in her 50s.
Oon