DJK i didn't run the numbers in any attempt to figure out exactly what was going on but the QTS was not in the .3 range (as published) but instead was in the .5 range, with a higher FS and much lower VAS, so my initial impression was that B&C was probably using the same motor but just changed the spider or something to make the suspension much tighter .... To me the measured parameters actually looked more useful than the published (as far as these experimental sorts of 6th order transflex type cabs that i have been working with are concerned)🙂
Yessir , it does include that front panel aperture plate .........
I wonder if there is some treatment you can add to the spider & surround on those Super8s to soften them back up?
That vent length is the other figure i will have to calculate with Akabak .. ... I will first try it as depicted in the sketch and go from there ...
built of Baltic birch and a few on-edge 1/2" plywood braces, it may be stiff enough to play hard - - a new proportional sketch sometime would be cool - - did you get the Clarke cd?
wonder how rough it would play with an aperture like bellow? - perhaps not as tight in the driver area as my crappy sketch
Yes, we have all those things, like in US. Only difference, things are more expensive over here. Partly to weaker competitioni the market and taxes. Don't get me wrong, I pay my taxes with, well not honor, but with understanding in the better for society, well back to the topic🙂
Well line array tend to be big and with this speaker I'll try to keep size down, more WAF. I love line array, and have a system in my livingroom:
![IMAG0187[1].jpg](https://www.diyaudio.com/community/data/attachments/453/453619-109e4308d921ea7758158ffaeb91a65f.jpg?hash=EJ5DCNkh6n "IMAG0187[1].jpg")
6 x 8" mid bass
6 x B&G magnetostats from 850 - 20000hz
Subs are LAT 700 with 800 digiamp
3-way active with roomcorrection.
The line array are dipoles. So the sound is really open and free of box coloration (well ther aren't any😀). They also have dynamics like no other box speaker I know of (I'm a sucker for dynamics). Well as you maybe already have guessed I'm not to fond of normal boxspeaker as I think they are inherently wrong and never so right to me. Stopping/dampning the sound from the back of the speaker in a box can only cause problems and reflect back through the cone and smear the sound.
Cheers
Impressive system you have got Matthew and all for free, that is a winner😛
How is the sound of those piezo tweeters. Are they as smooth as more expensive horn drivers? I remember some folks told me, that it should be avoided, but I have not heard a piezo (I think) Often they are much cheaper compared to other HF drivers so if it works, saving some hard earned bucks should be worth it🙂
Or just fire those beasts up and bomb them out with the B-52's
That last Karlflex in post 1476 looks really interestingly. Small footprint and impressive FR. Crossed over at 700-1000 hz (would not drive them more than 1200 hz due to dispersion, 340/0.3 meter = 1133 hz) really gives some options for HF drivers, including 1.4" horn drivers. Nice. Matthew, maybe you could post the Akabak script for that. Then I will have something to compare with the drawing and dimensions. That way I just might get a hang of it🙄
To get the center of the paperhorn up in ear level (will be placed on Karlflex), it would be nice to extent the Karlflex form 60 cm in height to around 70-75cm. Box size will then increase a bit. Could I keep your internal dimension or would they have to change accordingly? I only need flat FR to say 2000 hz.
Cheers
How is the sound of those piezo tweeters. Are they as smooth as more expensive horn drivers? I remember some folks told me, that it should be avoided, but I have not heard a piezo (I think) Often they are much cheaper compared to other HF drivers so if it works, saving some hard earned bucks should be worth it🙂
Or just fire those beasts up and bomb them out with the B-52's
That last Karlflex in post 1476 looks really interestingly. Small footprint and impressive FR. Crossed over at 700-1000 hz (would not drive them more than 1200 hz due to dispersion, 340/0.3 meter = 1133 hz) really gives some options for HF drivers, including 1.4" horn drivers. Nice. Matthew, maybe you could post the Akabak script for that. Then I will have something to compare with the drawing and dimensions. That way I just might get a hang of it🙄
To get the center of the paperhorn up in ear level (will be placed on Karlflex), it would be nice to extent the Karlflex form 60 cm in height to around 70-75cm. Box size will then increase a bit. Could I keep your internal dimension or would they have to change accordingly? I only need flat FR to say 2000 hz.
Cheers
Braces to make it's teeth straight
Exactly, Baltic birch is great stuff , and yes a few braces in the right spots (one in the S1 section, one at the bottom to connect the S1 panel the the bottom panel, one in the main vent , and one in the Freddi-mod cavity , and i might also put one above the driver in the front chamber connecting from the baffle to the front panel, you get the idea 🙂 ) [/QUOTE]
I agree , i was just wanting to verify everything in Akabak before making more sketches ..... I worked on it earlier today for a while, i checked the measurements and simmed it a few times over again and everything looks good in Akabak so far!😀 I will verify one more time and then move forward on this ....
Yessir , i did! I received it and i have been listening to it .. It is just two tracks , long tracks though 🙂 Nice recording....
I first listened to it on the headphones, and it sounded fine, but then i played it through the Karlflex and even though it sounds similar in terms of tone and balance the dynamics are different ..... Just like observed with that Dafos Beast drum track the Karlflex has a subjectively livelier presentation than the headphones, more dynamic, more fun to listen to 🙂
Steve Clarke's kick drum sounds great with lots of impact and the depth of it is also reproduced well ...... The resonance of the toms has a nice realism... The dynamics of the snare isn't as aggressive as some other recordings i have heard on this cab, the snare is just natural sounding ........ All of the higher frequency stuff (crash , splash , hat , ride or whatever) is carried by the Frankenpiezo, and no problems there ....
I think i drove the wife batty playing these drum tracks
but it was necessary because it was all done in the name of science! We are doing important research here!!! hehehe
Exactly, Baltic birch is great stuff , and yes a few braces in the right spots (one in the S1 section, one at the bottom to connect the S1 panel the the bottom panel, one in the main vent , and one in the Freddi-mod cavity , and i might also put one above the driver in the front chamber connecting from the baffle to the front panel, you get the idea 🙂 ) [/QUOTE]
I agree , i was just wanting to verify everything in Akabak before making more sketches ..... I worked on it earlier today for a while, i checked the measurements and simmed it a few times over again and everything looks good in Akabak so far!😀 I will verify one more time and then move forward on this ....
Yessir , i did! I received it and i have been listening to it .. It is just two tracks , long tracks though 🙂 Nice recording....
I first listened to it on the headphones, and it sounded fine, but then i played it through the Karlflex and even though it sounds similar in terms of tone and balance the dynamics are different ..... Just like observed with that Dafos Beast drum track the Karlflex has a subjectively livelier presentation than the headphones, more dynamic, more fun to listen to 🙂
Steve Clarke's kick drum sounds great with lots of impact and the depth of it is also reproduced well ...... The resonance of the toms has a nice realism... The dynamics of the snare isn't as aggressive as some other recordings i have heard on this cab, the snare is just natural sounding ........ All of the higher frequency stuff (crash , splash , hat , ride or whatever) is carried by the Frankenpiezo, and no problems there ....
I think i drove the wife batty playing these drum tracks
but it was necessary because it was all done in the name of science! We are doing important research here!!! hehehe
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the Clarke album is excellent overall - what kind of cone excursion and power input did you observe? (I've never been able to make sense of my XLS's power meter) - what would you suggest for a recording with a really cracking snare?
Dan Weiss made a cool album where the traditional tabla was replaced by a drumkit and reed harmonium replaced by a Stratocaster - its quite demanding to play and CD apparently scare - there's an mp3 download at Amazon (cheapest) - I tried one time to play it on a quick lashed "FAST" with 10" butyl surround Pioneer woofer and a 6" Fostex - neither were up to it - the Karlflex12 should handle the dymamics.
http://www.amazon.com/Tintal-Drumse.../ref=tmm_msc_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Dan Weiss made a cool album where the traditional tabla was replaced by a drumkit and reed harmonium replaced by a Stratocaster - its quite demanding to play and CD apparently scare - there's an mp3 download at Amazon (cheapest) - I tried one time to play it on a quick lashed "FAST" with 10" butyl surround Pioneer woofer and a 6" Fostex - neither were up to it - the Karlflex12 should handle the dymamics.
http://www.amazon.com/Tintal-Drumse.../ref=tmm_msc_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=&sr=
Taxes, tilts and ideas
The social services offered in the "Scandinavian Model" are envied by the rest of the world, but the taxes are not! 😱
Nice gear! Your line arrays are beautiful i would imagine that they produce a lovely large sound as well 🙂
I was thinking about something smaller (to be used as the "tops" for Karlflex cabs).. Imagine a line array with extremely small footprint (using 4" or 6" drivers) that could be used to reproduce the frequencies above 500hz or 700hz , i have a source for the drivers at $5 to $6 a piece (i have personally tested both types of drivers) and each array could have 4 to 6 elements........... It could work but the more i think about it i realize there would be this problem with still needing another driver for higher frequencies, so it would end up being more complicated and require that the system be 3-way, and you are trying to stick to 2-way for this project right?
So here is another idea: Have you ever had the chance to hear or experiment with a Selenium D220ti? I have a pair of them and they are fantastic little drivers, i used these for my living room system before i made the Frankenpiezo arrays and i had them on some big 12" Dayton lenses with passive 18db per octave crossovers @2khz and that was ok, but lately since i just had these laying around i was curious to see what would happen if i put the D220ti drivers on some big EV HR60 horns and an entirely different crossover ...... The HR60s are fiberglass 500hz Constant Directivity horns which added a massive falling-response spectral tilt that i then compensated for by using the simplest of crossovers, a single series 2uf poly cap which gave me the 6db per octave curve i needed .... I am pretty sure i lost a few DBs in this whole process but i like the sound, it has a mildly rising response now and is useful from about 1.2khz all the way up to 18khz (increasing the cap value to 3uf would probably make it almost flat but i prefer the 2uf) .... Anyway , perhaps something like this could work with one of your paper horns?
Here is the curve i measured with the D2202ti and HR60 CD horn (with 2uf series-cap) combo:
Just throwing some ideas out there 🙂
The social services offered in the "Scandinavian Model" are envied by the rest of the world, but the taxes are not! 😱
Nice gear! Your line arrays are beautiful i would imagine that they produce a lovely large sound as well 🙂
I was thinking about something smaller (to be used as the "tops" for Karlflex cabs).. Imagine a line array with extremely small footprint (using 4" or 6" drivers) that could be used to reproduce the frequencies above 500hz or 700hz , i have a source for the drivers at $5 to $6 a piece (i have personally tested both types of drivers) and each array could have 4 to 6 elements........... It could work but the more i think about it i realize there would be this problem with still needing another driver for higher frequencies, so it would end up being more complicated and require that the system be 3-way, and you are trying to stick to 2-way for this project right?
So here is another idea: Have you ever had the chance to hear or experiment with a Selenium D220ti? I have a pair of them and they are fantastic little drivers, i used these for my living room system before i made the Frankenpiezo arrays and i had them on some big 12" Dayton lenses with passive 18db per octave crossovers @2khz and that was ok, but lately since i just had these laying around i was curious to see what would happen if i put the D220ti drivers on some big EV HR60 horns and an entirely different crossover ...... The HR60s are fiberglass 500hz Constant Directivity horns which added a massive falling-response spectral tilt that i then compensated for by using the simplest of crossovers, a single series 2uf poly cap which gave me the 6db per octave curve i needed .... I am pretty sure i lost a few DBs in this whole process but i like the sound, it has a mildly rising response now and is useful from about 1.2khz all the way up to 18khz (increasing the cap value to 3uf would probably make it almost flat but i prefer the 2uf) .... Anyway , perhaps something like this could work with one of your paper horns?
Here is the curve i measured with the D2202ti and HR60 CD horn (with 2uf series-cap) combo:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Just throwing some ideas out there 🙂
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"what would you suggest for a recording with a really cracking snare? "
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjSpDB1Fc6A
Starts nailing it at about one minute in.
I used to use track two of James Newton Howard before I found the Michael Ruff track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLnHgKotezg
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hjSpDB1Fc6A
Starts nailing it at about one minute in.
I used to use track two of James Newton Howard before I found the Michael Ruff track.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLnHgKotezg
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220ti with a 1" ID x 5.3" long half-ellipse slot K-tube tilted up the same as the woofer baffle should make a good tweeter.
Thanks DJK - here's a CD I've had before - can't remember the overall quality - just snare 😀
it seems to take a decent speaker to get any semblance of a real good snare drum played by a good drummer -
I've got a friend who isn't a great drummer but his rim shots will shut my eyes
MCM has nice little 5" "monitor" speakers for around $11 or so shipped - perhaps a mini array could play pretty loud (?)
I could listen to well played drums for hours
Thanks DJK - here's a CD I've had before - can't remember the overall quality - just snare 😀
it seems to take a decent speaker to get any semblance of a real good snare drum played by a good drummer -
I've got a friend who isn't a great drummer but his rim shots will shut my eyes
MCM has nice little 5" "monitor" speakers for around $11 or so shipped - perhaps a mini array could play pretty loud (?)
I could listen to well played drums for hours
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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I use the spectrum analyzer to get close, then switch to the JNH to fine tume the system.
Get it right and and the snare will feel like you're being hit in the head with the sticks.
People gasp when I get this PA tuned up, the drums will hurt you.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/dkleitsch/CoePA-2009.jpg
Get it right and and the snare will feel like you're being hit in the head with the sticks.
People gasp when I get this PA tuned up, the drums will hurt you.
http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g196/dkleitsch/CoePA-2009.jpg
great (effective looking) PA stack! - - drums should be felt - are those slot load subs better than any horn for the same bulk and LF cutoff? I'm hoping MMJ's little toy will kick well for its size and displacement limitations - the 1954 K12 although can't go "low" can kick with the right speaker.
Matthew, the Selenium looks interestingly, nice FR from 1khz. I want to go 2-way because it's more simple, only 2 amps and I would like to use active X-over (minidsp, the cheap version is 2-way), so you have endless possibilities of tailoring response to the room and to get seamless integration between sub and horn. This way you could have a beafy digiamp on the sub, perhaps build into the sub, and tubes on the horns 😀
Linearray on top?, hmm, think I want to go with the paperhorns, basically because I like the focused sound from the dirictivity of the horn (less room interaction) and because I think it would look cool ontop of the Karlflex, kind of retro/vintage look, that would stand out and act as a speaker and some kind of art, you get the drift 😛
Linearray on top?, hmm, think I want to go with the paperhorns, basically because I like the focused sound from the dirictivity of the horn (less room interaction) and because I think it would look cool ontop of the Karlflex, kind of retro/vintage look, that would stand out and act as a speaker and some kind of art, you get the drift 😛
A different animal
Thank you ! and yes, I cannot complain about free horn cabinets which also serve as awesome cat scratch towers and spider houses, all of that multipurpose goodness for just the right price! 😀 hehehe
Piezos are not at all like the typical moving-coil & magnet motor based drivers, Piezos really are an entirely different sort of animal, and they are tricky ........ Honestly most Piezos are used improperly and because of that they sound absolutely horrible, like nails on a chalkboard, gritty, spitty, harsh, shouty, so bad in fact that many people would be upset about the $2 they spent on the Piezo .... However there are a few halfway acceptable sounding cheap devices which are both knock-offs of the old "1016" 2x5 Piezo Tweeter Horn, one is made by Goldwood which is a 4khz unit , and the other is made by GRS which is a 2.5khz unit .... A gentleman named Brian Steele from DIYaudio figured out that if you plug the GRS element onto the back of a Goldwood 1016 horn you can get remarkably flat response (for a Piezo)! To further improve on the sound of my FrankenPiezos I stuffed some fine fiber (dryer lint is what I use) inside of the unit between the paper cone and ceramic piezo bender, and also behind the bender, this helps damp the resonances and smooth response ... I also treated the back of my 1016 horns with acetone then applied a thick layer of PL or Rope Caulk to damp the thin and light plastic horns................. AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF Piezo tweeters are high impedance devices so you can improve their performance even more by driving them with a proper step-up transformer network so i came up with one consisting of a $5 transformer from Parts Express and a few cheap resistors along with a cap...
Soooo in other words: to make a Piezo sound good is a project.
NOTE: If anyone ever wants to try this just be sure to order extra Piezos because there will be some bad elements , expect that at least 20% of the elements will need to be discarded ..... You will also need an accurate microphone to measure them with.
I like this idea 😀 I mean where else can a spider go for a nice living space to set up your web and a complimentary full body massage AND good tunes?!?! This is luxury!
Absolutely! 🙂 I wrote about the D220ti in the previous post and one of them (or equivalent) in a paper horn would make a splendid Karlflex topper 🙂 (just expect to pad down the D220ti)
Making the box taller will shift the tuning down , there are ways to compensate .... Akabak is our friend 😉
Thank you ! and yes, I cannot complain about free horn cabinets which also serve as awesome cat scratch towers and spider houses, all of that multipurpose goodness for just the right price! 😀 hehehe
Piezos are not at all like the typical moving-coil & magnet motor based drivers, Piezos really are an entirely different sort of animal, and they are tricky ........ Honestly most Piezos are used improperly and because of that they sound absolutely horrible, like nails on a chalkboard, gritty, spitty, harsh, shouty, so bad in fact that many people would be upset about the $2 they spent on the Piezo .... However there are a few halfway acceptable sounding cheap devices which are both knock-offs of the old "1016" 2x5 Piezo Tweeter Horn, one is made by Goldwood which is a 4khz unit , and the other is made by GRS which is a 2.5khz unit .... A gentleman named Brian Steele from DIYaudio figured out that if you plug the GRS element onto the back of a Goldwood 1016 horn you can get remarkably flat response (for a Piezo)! To further improve on the sound of my FrankenPiezos I stuffed some fine fiber (dryer lint is what I use) inside of the unit between the paper cone and ceramic piezo bender, and also behind the bender, this helps damp the resonances and smooth response ... I also treated the back of my 1016 horns with acetone then applied a thick layer of PL or Rope Caulk to damp the thin and light plastic horns................. AND TO TOP IT ALL OFF Piezo tweeters are high impedance devices so you can improve their performance even more by driving them with a proper step-up transformer network so i came up with one consisting of a $5 transformer from Parts Express and a few cheap resistors along with a cap...
Soooo in other words: to make a Piezo sound good is a project.
NOTE: If anyone ever wants to try this just be sure to order extra Piezos because there will be some bad elements , expect that at least 20% of the elements will need to be discarded ..... You will also need an accurate microphone to measure them with.
Or just fire those beasts up and bomb them out with the B-52's
I like this idea 😀 I mean where else can a spider go for a nice living space to set up your web and a complimentary full body massage AND good tunes?!?! This is luxury!
Absolutely! 🙂 I wrote about the D220ti in the previous post and one of them (or equivalent) in a paper horn would make a splendid Karlflex topper 🙂 (just expect to pad down the D220ti)
Making the box taller will shift the tuning down , there are ways to compensate .... Akabak is our friend 😉
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Hi Freddi, for you and all other drum fanatics 😛 if you don't already know it, I can recomend this cd.
http://www.discogs.com/Jim-Keltner-Ron-Tutt-The-Sheffield-Drum-Record/release/1135612
Really good and realistic recording. If your system is up to it, they are literally in font of you and playing.
Cheers
Megasnare!
Sebastian,
This track that you recommended is a great drum recording, superb sounding snare on this one 🙂 ..
By the way i checked out that InlowSound website, some very cool projects on there 😎
Sebastian,
This track that you recommended is a great drum recording, superb sounding snare on this one 🙂 ..
By the way i checked out that InlowSound website, some very cool projects on there 😎
Yep, the rim shot Jim Keltner is doing at 6:14, panning them around, that is crazy turned up at HIGH volume, I allways grin when that part comes 😀.
Mr. Inlow has, indeed, some VERY cool stuff. I owe him big time, for inspiring me to make my own horn system. Those horns have made it so much more fun and pleasurable to listen to music
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A review of the drum tracks played through the prototype Karlflex
Freddi,
Ok , I will try to describe the experience of listening to these tracks on the Karlflex in my dining room where i currently have it set up .... Right now i am using a K-hump or radius styled aperture/mouth ( i can draw a sketch if anyone wants me to)....
The Karlflex had no problem at all faithfully reproducing the Dan Weiss Tintal drum tracks , the drums sound great and the Stratocaster sounds warm , you know how it goes with these K-boxes in regards to how the front chamber can warm up and emphasize the resonance on certain instruments and vocals in the upper midbass and midrange region, a type of tasteful "coloration" that i can live with, really works wonders with some vocals ...
The first track that DJK recommended in post #1490 , very dynamic and open sounding to me (yeah, i know, more "subjective" terms 🙄) , the snare on this one is aggressive, snappy and does a great job at jumping out at you ... I give it a 4 snare rating
hehe
I also really liked the "Sheffield Drum Record" tracks that Shlager recommended, the snare has a bold and fat yet tight sound in this one! Excellent! A big thumbs up here and in my opinion a 5 snare rating!
😀
I turned up the volume enough to barely start tickling and flickering the -20db light on the Crown XLS front panel right channel meter, on peaks, (nothing hooked up to the left channel right now) ..... The speaker has an 8 ohm impedance and one XLS 1500 channel has the capability of producing 300 watts at 8ohms so as i see it the 300 watts minus 20db ends up being something like 3 watts!
Which really seems sort of low for the level of volume i was getting, it was loud !
Honestly it seems like i was at least putting 20 watts into the box during this test and i think i should hook up my good wideband a/c voltmeter next time to actually get a voltage reading........
At this level of drive (tickling the "-20db") i was moving some air and drums started feeling "tactile" , many objects in the room were not only vibrating with the kick drum sounds but also by the toms and snare drums as well ... As expected at this level the boundaries and panels such as countertops, cabinets and walls will vibrate with the bass and kick, but the surprise is that the midrange also creates that same physical sensation and that is extra fantastic! I don't recall my Front Loaded Horns (for midbass and midrange) having that same effect in the midrange frequencies but then again i have always used those as part of a multi-way system (with the sub channel gains running a bit hotter than the rest) which is a "apples to oranges" comparison since this Karlflex has a single driver covering such a wide bandwidth with fairly flat response and coherent phase response, so by the time you turn it up loud enough to really get the bass pumping & thumping the midrange is loud as hell ...... Once i build the new Karlflex box with an FB that is around 40hz or 42hz (instead of 34hz) i should have a little more output in the 40-100hz range and that will help🙂 ... As i said before this really is quite a balancing act, after all we are trying to get a light and high efficiency 12" Pa Driver (not known for their bass heavy sound to say the least😛) to play practically full range with solid and satisfying extension down to 40hz in a small box with reasonably flat response, i think that sort of challenge is what they call a "tall order" but i think it can be done, it is almost there now, and the most recent refinements will be the key to nailing it
..
Playing the drum tracks at "-20db" levels on the XLS meter was barely getting the cone moving on the kicks and i had to look closely to see it
.... In other words there was quite a bit of sound being created with very little cone movement which is good! There is still vast amounts of available headroom here (and more to come with a higher fundamental tuning) , which makes me think i could have driven the cabinet much harder during the test but the mids were already loud to the point of being obscene..
I hope the above cheeseball review has helped to describe the sort of sound i am getting from this thing right now ...
Freddi,
Ok , I will try to describe the experience of listening to these tracks on the Karlflex in my dining room where i currently have it set up .... Right now i am using a K-hump or radius styled aperture/mouth ( i can draw a sketch if anyone wants me to)....
The Karlflex had no problem at all faithfully reproducing the Dan Weiss Tintal drum tracks , the drums sound great and the Stratocaster sounds warm , you know how it goes with these K-boxes in regards to how the front chamber can warm up and emphasize the resonance on certain instruments and vocals in the upper midbass and midrange region, a type of tasteful "coloration" that i can live with, really works wonders with some vocals ...
The first track that DJK recommended in post #1490 , very dynamic and open sounding to me (yeah, i know, more "subjective" terms 🙄) , the snare on this one is aggressive, snappy and does a great job at jumping out at you ... I give it a 4 snare rating
heheI also really liked the "Sheffield Drum Record" tracks that Shlager recommended, the snare has a bold and fat yet tight sound in this one! Excellent! A big thumbs up here and in my opinion a 5 snare rating!
😀
I turned up the volume enough to barely start tickling and flickering the -20db light on the Crown XLS front panel right channel meter, on peaks, (nothing hooked up to the left channel right now) ..... The speaker has an 8 ohm impedance and one XLS 1500 channel has the capability of producing 300 watts at 8ohms so as i see it the 300 watts minus 20db ends up being something like 3 watts!
Which really seems sort of low for the level of volume i was getting, it was loud !Honestly it seems like i was at least putting 20 watts into the box during this test and i think i should hook up my good wideband a/c voltmeter next time to actually get a voltage reading........
At this level of drive (tickling the "-20db") i was moving some air and drums started feeling "tactile" , many objects in the room were not only vibrating with the kick drum sounds but also by the toms and snare drums as well ... As expected at this level the boundaries and panels such as countertops, cabinets and walls will vibrate with the bass and kick, but the surprise is that the midrange also creates that same physical sensation and that is extra fantastic! I don't recall my Front Loaded Horns (for midbass and midrange) having that same effect in the midrange frequencies but then again i have always used those as part of a multi-way system (with the sub channel gains running a bit hotter than the rest) which is a "apples to oranges" comparison since this Karlflex has a single driver covering such a wide bandwidth with fairly flat response and coherent phase response, so by the time you turn it up loud enough to really get the bass pumping & thumping the midrange is loud as hell ...... Once i build the new Karlflex box with an FB that is around 40hz or 42hz (instead of 34hz) i should have a little more output in the 40-100hz range and that will help🙂 ... As i said before this really is quite a balancing act, after all we are trying to get a light and high efficiency 12" Pa Driver (not known for their bass heavy sound to say the least😛) to play practically full range with solid and satisfying extension down to 40hz in a small box with reasonably flat response, i think that sort of challenge is what they call a "tall order" but i think it can be done, it is almost there now, and the most recent refinements will be the key to nailing it
..Playing the drum tracks at "-20db" levels on the XLS meter was barely getting the cone moving on the kicks and i had to look closely to see it
.... In other words there was quite a bit of sound being created with very little cone movement which is good! There is still vast amounts of available headroom here (and more to come with a higher fundamental tuning) , which makes me think i could have driven the cabinet much harder during the test but the mids were already loud to the point of being obscene..I hope the above cheeseball review has helped to describe the sort of sound i am getting from this thing right now ...
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