Bybee Fraud Protection

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#782
BigE said:
The explanations are offered as fact are at best hypotheses. They could be tested but are not. Which defines how "pseudo-science" works to sell to the gullible:

Offer *any* scientific sounding explanation, and people will accept that real science is behind the product.

The "science" is not contested as the purchaser is not an expert and does not understand it. So, they trust that those scientific sounding claims are facts.

The concept of sincerity enters into the picture as trust by the purchaser.

Although I have had experience with someone making a product who was so ill informed, they sincerely believed their own hypotheses were facts.

And here is the rub: Hypothesizing is not doing science. Testing hypotheses is doing science.
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A most excellent post. It truly sums up the fraud and quackery that has become "high end" audio. This one's a keeper.

se
 
#784
BigE said:
Although I have had experience with someone making a product who was so ill informed, they sincerely believed their own hypotheses were facts.
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Yes, that seems likely to be the crux. Sincerity in the belief that an explanation must be true does not make it so, no matter how passionately it is held. As humans we are far better wired up to be good at telling genuine belief than we are to verify physics. And that seems to be enough to set the seed of expectation, given a willingness to believe. After that there often seems to be some 'ratchet' that locks in the perception. And, to make perception contagious, part of the story always has to include description of the effect, which is a genuinely held belief of course.

Maybe I still have hope for the human condition, but I doubt that the majority of products which might be so classified are born of mal intent.......
 
#785
jacco vermeulen said:
Are you an expert ?

(I know JS about art, single thing I come up with when I'm looking at a Japanese painting is why one out of three blind is wearing shoes to cross a 'bridge')
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Zen painting is a personal thing.
 

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#787
scott wurcer said:
Zen painting is a personal thing.
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-At the beginning of a difficult travel, a blind person walks upright, trusting his bare feet, using his hands only to carefully sense the path's safety with a cane.
-As the crossing becomes narrower, he puts on his shoes again, relies on his hands for guidance and his feet for walking.
-Once the blind man has crossed half of a difficult road, he has taken off his shoes again, has learned to rely on all his senses, even if it means he has to crawl.

Must be personal, I'm more into shunga and manga
 
#789
scott wurcer said:
What makes you think there is anything there?
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I am always curious when John or many people say they hear something. When it is controversial, I am even more curious what I can hear/cant hear. Some hear a delta and some dont... so what will I hear/not hear.

So, it isnt that I think there IS anything there. I drift towards wanting to see if I can hear anything. That way, it is settled - at least for myself.

-RM
 
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#791
Richard, according to fundamental principles of physics, there can't be anything there. So what are you going to verify? That science as we know it is based on flawed principles? Or that you are as susceptible to expectation bias as the next Joe?
 
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#792
We are talking about a piece of plastic with a bit of foil stuck to it (this is an even bigger scam than the QPs).... if you do hear anything it will be in your mind... to try and justify these devices or try and make some imaginary science to explain the placebo effect would be to say good bye to any credibility....
 
#797
RNMarsh said:
So, it isnt that I think there IS anything there. I drift towards wanting to see if I can hear anything. That way, it is settled - at least for myself.
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If one's own perception overrides in such things, it doesn't strictly matter whether it's placebo I conclude.......so long as one doesn't necessarily then expect such perception to be transferrable between people by way of a common experience.

By way of rationalisation or explanation, 'as yet unknown' seems common enough, at least allows such things to sit comfortably, for some people at least, alongside the perception.

vacuphile said:
Or that you are as susceptible to expectation bias as the next Joe?
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It's part of the human condition, a pill we all have to swallow.
 
#799
Max Headroom said:
I don't know why but that is what I and others hear. Billshurv try AB listening to ferrites, you may be surprised.
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It was quick and easy in the studio to try this in the configuration Dan used. No audible effect, trying a range of ferrites some of which split into two so can apply in situ A/B style. No surprise, no audible effect no matter what. No reason there should be.

No doubt my expectation bias stops me from perceiving it 😉
 
#800
How does some consumer audio gear pass EMC testing if there is such a negative response to adding ferrites, I remember reading a revue a few years ago where as soon as the revuer spotted ferrites inside the box he gave it a big thumbs down, like all Audiophile myths I have asked but never seen any data presented to support the view that ferrites make the sound bad, just hearsay.
 
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