I got my initial 'prototype' up and running. I've reused an old PC with an Intel Atom motherboard and processor, loaded up with AP-Linux and equipped with a solid state disk. Playback, using Cantata, is output via USB to a JL Sounds I2SoverUSB card and the DSD signal tapped from its header pins. I've made a little PCB that holds the filter and a mute circuit, schematics for which were kindly provided by Lyuben at JL Sounds. The filter is a simple first order at around 40KHz, just a resistor in series and a capacitor in parallel. Because of the 1.65V of DC present on the header pins I'm passing the signal after filtering through a cap and then onto a JG buffer, also courtesy of JL Sounds. Here are some pictures.
First picture is of the populated filter/mute board;
Second picture is an overview: bottom left is obviously the Intel Atom motherboard. The white PCB to the right of the SanDisk SSD holds two 5V regulated supplies for the two parts of the USB board, these use TPS7A4700 devices. Next to the right is the USB board, with my filter board mounted on top via the headers. Next to the right is the JL Sounds JG Buffer board, with its +/-15V power supplies beneath (black PCBs, again using TPS7A4700) and, finally, a couple of small toroids to power it all.
Third picture is a closer picture of the USB board with my filter PCB.
So what does it sound like? Actually incredibly good. I would describe it as rich, smooth and detailed. Spatial separation is very good, you really can pick out individual instruments/voices in their own space.
Downsides? Output is a bit low and a few decibels of gain in the buffer would be useful but the level is still listenable. There is an audible click between tracks and occasionally during tracks. Between tracks will be taken care of by the mute circuit (I've had to remove the relay for now as I got the connections the wrong way round) and I'm pretty sure the noises within tracks is the result of doing things on the computer whilst playback is ongoing (I use a remote terminal session on my laptop to control playback and now just don't touch it while I'm listening). None of the noises are of speaker damaging magnitude.
I have a few spare filter/mute PCBs I can send out for the cost of the postage if anyone is interested in trying this. Please note that the PCBs have the relay mistake so you would need to hack a workround or live with the clicks. I have replacement PCBs on order as I do plan to use the mute circuit.
For me, what I've heard so far is sufficient for me to want to take this further and I've started working on a tube based solution using a Broskie Aikido PCB; this will include an active second order filter and some gain. Also on the to do list is to try HQ Player with a view to experimenting with its filters and to transcode to DSD from FLAC 'on the fly', though that will need a much better computer.
Ray
First picture is of the populated filter/mute board;
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Second picture is an overview: bottom left is obviously the Intel Atom motherboard. The white PCB to the right of the SanDisk SSD holds two 5V regulated supplies for the two parts of the USB board, these use TPS7A4700 devices. Next to the right is the USB board, with my filter board mounted on top via the headers. Next to the right is the JL Sounds JG Buffer board, with its +/-15V power supplies beneath (black PCBs, again using TPS7A4700) and, finally, a couple of small toroids to power it all.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Third picture is a closer picture of the USB board with my filter PCB.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
So what does it sound like? Actually incredibly good. I would describe it as rich, smooth and detailed. Spatial separation is very good, you really can pick out individual instruments/voices in their own space.
Downsides? Output is a bit low and a few decibels of gain in the buffer would be useful but the level is still listenable. There is an audible click between tracks and occasionally during tracks. Between tracks will be taken care of by the mute circuit (I've had to remove the relay for now as I got the connections the wrong way round) and I'm pretty sure the noises within tracks is the result of doing things on the computer whilst playback is ongoing (I use a remote terminal session on my laptop to control playback and now just don't touch it while I'm listening). None of the noises are of speaker damaging magnitude.
I have a few spare filter/mute PCBs I can send out for the cost of the postage if anyone is interested in trying this. Please note that the PCBs have the relay mistake so you would need to hack a workround or live with the clicks. I have replacement PCBs on order as I do plan to use the mute circuit.
For me, what I've heard so far is sufficient for me to want to take this further and I've started working on a tube based solution using a Broskie Aikido PCB; this will include an active second order filter and some gain. Also on the to do list is to try HQ Player with a view to experimenting with its filters and to transcode to DSD from FLAC 'on the fly', though that will need a much better computer.
Ray
Ray, good to hear that its going well for you. I have changed over from my DIYINHK board for a JLSounds board, but to be honest I can't hear any difference due to different board. I bought the JLSounds because its pretty cheap and I want to see if I can upsample to DSD256, or even 512. DIYINHK works with DoP only, limited to DSD128, but apparently the JL SOunds will play native DSD.
I am running Ubuntu Studio and HQPlayer. I started with APLinux but was told that I couldn't install HQPlayer on that distro (maybe I should have tried). At the moment I am upsampling everything to DSD128 as DoP as I can't figure out how to play back native DSD. I am running the input side of the board from the PC supply, I am using the SMPS in my original schema for the output side and am using a 6 volt SLA for the flip flop. The higher supply voltage, and the fact that the flip flop has complementary outputs gives a higher output swing - still doesn't appear to be normal line level but I can get reasonable volume now without going to max volume setting.
For now I'm pretty happy with what I've got, aesthetically it is not a patch on your excellent build but I married my wife for her looks, the stereo only needs to sound good.
That is one impressive effort & great pictures to show how you did it. How’s the audible high frequency noise level? Most none DSD dac’s I’ve heard about seemed to suffer from this. Did you somehow fix this?
I like the looks of the JL Sounds card. It seems to have a great deal of options, it seems even possible to use external clocks.
I also think a tube based board would be the next step and DSD encoding on the fly is off-course a great idea too.
BTW, I'm intrested to give this a try.
I like the looks of the JL Sounds card. It seems to have a great deal of options, it seems even possible to use external clocks.
I also think a tube based board would be the next step and DSD encoding on the fly is off-course a great idea too.
BTW, I'm intrested to give this a try.
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manual
Dears ALL,
sincere compliments for the fantastic work !!!
I listen only music in DSD because is superior !
I make to know this marvelous software that transform all file PCM in DSD and vice versa.
I insert the manual of software.
I in few time, insert the preamplifier with 6H30 for this project.
Thanks and All the Best,
JEDY
Dears ALL,
sincere compliments for the fantastic work !!!
I listen only music in DSD because is superior !
I make to know this marvelous software that transform all file PCM in DSD and vice versa.
I insert the manual of software.
I in few time, insert the preamplifier with 6H30 for this project.
Thanks and All the Best,
JEDY
Thanks stijn.
I haven't heard anything disturbing in the high frequencies, though my ears are getting quite old, like the rest of me! I'm deliberately only using DSD128 files as they should be a better than DSD64 with respect to HF noise and plan to only go upwards to DSD256 etc.
The other part of my HF testing is our pet cat; when I did the first playback of DSD material she slept, completely undisturbed, in the same room for the whole time. She is very fussy and will remove herself if she doesn't like something.
If you want me to send you a PCB just PM me your address and we can sort it out. If you can wait a few days I should have the new boards with the mute relay connection.
Ray
Hey ray, you make me laugh with your pet cat test. There’s one use for a cat I never thought of. Slippery slope though, we don’t want to be accused of animal testing.
I’ve been thinking about your report on hearing interference from the source (PC in your case). I suspect this direct no-dac design could really benefit from a good isolation, either one of Ian’s fifo boards, Acko’s S03 or the TP Hermes boards.. as it’s analogue straight through the cleanness of the I2S feed is critical.
I also suspect that the HF noise some have reported might to some extend be noise on this I2S feed and not an inherent problem of a DSD no-dac design. Which makes me think that the JL Sounds I2SoverUSB card might be a really good option, compared to the Wave IO or Amanero for example (with which Ive heard and'and people have reported HF noise problems)
I’ll PM you now.
I’ve been thinking about your report on hearing interference from the source (PC in your case). I suspect this direct no-dac design could really benefit from a good isolation, either one of Ian’s fifo boards, Acko’s S03 or the TP Hermes boards.. as it’s analogue straight through the cleanness of the I2S feed is critical.
I also suspect that the HF noise some have reported might to some extend be noise on this I2S feed and not an inherent problem of a DSD no-dac design. Which makes me think that the JL Sounds I2SoverUSB card might be a really good option, compared to the Wave IO or Amanero for example (with which Ive heard and'and people have reported HF noise problems)
I’ll PM you now.
Filter Board Board Schematic
Hi Nautibouy,
Very interesting thread and particularly your implementation of DSD playback.
I've been using the DDDAC for PCM playback and am now interested in finding a simple, direct analogue method of playing DSD files. Could you post a schematic of the filter and DC cap you mentioned please, it sounds relatively simple but this would be a good starting point (I assume the design is not proprietary and can be published).
Regards
Howard
Hi Nautibouy,
Very interesting thread and particularly your implementation of DSD playback.
I've been using the DDDAC for PCM playback and am now interested in finding a simple, direct analogue method of playing DSD files. Could you post a schematic of the filter and DC cap you mentioned please, it sounds relatively simple but this would be a good starting point (I assume the design is not proprietary and can be published).
Regards
Howard
Hi Howard.
Just to be clear, this is not my design, I have simply implemented the schematics forwarded to my by the JL Sounds chaps. I have designed the PCB to sit on the header pins of the JL Sounds I2SoverUSB card;
I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio
I will ask them if they mind if I put the schematics on here. The filter itself is very simple.
Ray
Just to be clear, this is not my design, I have simply implemented the schematics forwarded to my by the JL Sounds chaps. I have designed the PCB to sit on the header pins of the JL Sounds I2SoverUSB card;
I2SoverUSB - I2S over USB Audio
I will ask them if they mind if I put the schematics on here. The filter itself is very simple.
Ray
I checked with Lyuben at JL Sounds and he is happy for me to post the schematics I used for my build. In fact I amalgamated the two schematics I was sent into one drawing to produce my PCB layout and that is below;
Note that I produced the PCB specifically to fit onto the JL Sounds I2Sover USB board headers so I suggest you read the schematic with reference to the information about the board, available on the JL Sounds website.
I have received notification that the corrected PCBs are on their way so the guys who have contacted me shouldn't have to wait too long.
Ray
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Note that I produced the PCB specifically to fit onto the JL Sounds I2Sover USB board headers so I suggest you read the schematic with reference to the information about the board, available on the JL Sounds website.
I have received notification that the corrected PCBs are on their way so the guys who have contacted me shouldn't have to wait too long.
Ray
FILTER OF NAUTIBUOY
sincere compliments for your good work.
Very well for this filter, also if me to always avoid every condensers in the passage of the signal.
This filter have attenuation of -3dB to 20 Khz ... very limited in high range !!! ... but I resolve this problem directly with lift the lack of frequencies from the valve, inserting a small capacitor among cathode and ground of around 1.5 nF.
With this small capacitors the linearity is around 40 Khz to -0.1 dB.
JEDY
Dear Mr. NAUTIBUOY,
sincere compliments for your good work.
Very well for this filter, also if me to always avoid every condensers in the passage of the signal.
This filter have attenuation of -3dB to 20 Khz ... very limited in high range !!! ... but I resolve this problem directly with lift the lack of frequencies from the valve, inserting a small capacitor among cathode and ground of around 1.5 nF.
With this small capacitors the linearity is around 40 Khz to -0.1 dB.
JEDY
Attachments
R4A and R4B ...
you can replace the resistors R4A and R4B with a double ladder from 50 Kohms for the control of volume.
JEDY
Dear Mr. NAUTIBUOY,
you can replace the resistors R4A and R4B with a double ladder from 50 Kohms for the control of volume.
JEDY
Thanks for the feedback. Yes, there are lots of things that can be done to improve on my project and your suggestions are appreciated.
Do note though, if you check my post on the project you'll be reminded that this is a first 'prototype' built simply to gain an initial impression of this approach to DSD playback - it is not meant to be definitive in any respect, just quick and cheap and largely from parts I already had to hand and using what others have already done. Even the PCBs only cost me $14 for ten.
Now I have sampled the potential I am progressing a more sophisticated project; here is the expected response curve;
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Hopefully others might be encouraged by my experiment to try direct DSD playback.
Cheers
Ray
PREAMPLIFIER FOR DSD DAC
I'M SORRY for all.
I give this my special preamplifier with EL86 for your DSD DAC.
I with this preamplifier win a lot of competitions of HI END CAR (of special quality).
I adore the sound of 6H30, but the EL86 offer best musicality.
I make to you this my personal gift for your constant work and good result.
Sincere compliments for all and good continue work.
JEDI
Dear Mr. NAUTIBUOY,
I'M SORRY for all.
I give this my special preamplifier with EL86 for your DSD DAC.
I with this preamplifier win a lot of competitions of HI END CAR (of special quality).
I adore the sound of 6H30, but the EL86 offer best musicality.
I make to you this my personal gift for your constant work and good result.
Sincere compliments for all and good continue work.
JEDI
Attachments
No need to say sorry for anything jedy and thanks for sharing your design with us. I will have a look at it tomorrow (it's late now).
Ray
Ray
The last few posts made me recheck and I noticed an error in the schematic I posted; it had the wrong value for the filter cap. Here is a corrected schematic:
Apologies for the error and any confusion caused.
Ray
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Apologies for the error and any confusion caused.
Ray