SM - you are smart! Orion is just history. The drivers are good, you can use them in other projects or sell them.
Getting there, the main baffles are done, side panels are done, just need to cut the panels for the woofer cabinet then I can start the assembly process.
If someone has built those around Denver area and willing to show them, please send me PM. Thank you!
John,
Great info on your site. I was looking at it today and noticed you have a bad URL.
On the page NaO Note II RS you have a link to file:///C:/Program%20Files/Yahoo%20SiteBuilder/sites/musicanddesign/NaO_Note_II_RS_Details.html, when it should link to NaO Note II RS Details
Basically the latter page works fine, the link on your page is simply pointing to your local computer instead of your web site.
I post a long new thread about my NaO Notes II RS build for those interested...
Thank you John for this wonderful system. I will enjoy this system for may years!!!
J-P
Thank you John for this wonderful system. I will enjoy this system for may years!!!
J-P
Impressions
This first impression has been long due, but because of a new job and being away for a bit, life just got in the way. In any case, I visited John K. at his home because his creation, the Nao Note II RS has piqued my interest for quite some time. We have exchanged emails discussing the Nao II RS when it first came out, but never had the chance to listen to them up until 2.5 weeks ago. John K. is a very cool guy – easy going and very accommodating. My girlfriend and I planned to just stay for an hour to 2 hours, but ended staying for 6 because of great music emanating from his speakers and of course, great company. The room in the basement where the speakers sit wasn’t anechoic, but John did a great job in making it dead quiet. I could tell because my hearing changed a bit (like wearing noise-canceling headphones, but very faint) as we went down and I could distinctly hear my voice, my gf’s, and John’s voice. Looking at John’s equipment, I could tell that he’s been an enthusiast for quite some time. I am only 34, but I could recognize the good amps that he had in his man-cave. I noticed 2 Threshold amps by Mr. Pass, an Audio Research Preamp, and a Marantz CD player, to name a few.
Well, for the audition, we all know that his speakers use 4 channels of amplification on each side, so we weren’t using the Thresholds at all. We used the chip-amps that he assembled from SDS Audio, which are class D. We used the Audio Research Preamp (Solid-State), and the Marantz CD Player. I am not going to list the amount of tracks that we listened to and how the speakers did on every single track, because quite frankly, I am not good at it, and we had music for almost 6 hours. But, I brought enough discs with tracks I specifically compiled to test and address the types of music that I like listening to. So, to those who might be curious, here are some tracks:
1. Andy McKee – Art of Motion, Heather’s Song
2. David Benoit – Kei’s Song, Stages
3. George Benson – The Lady in My Life
4. Julia Fordham – Love Moves in Mysterious Ways
5. George Michael – The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face
6. Patti Austin – If I Believed
7. David Pack (Ambrosia) – I Just Can’t Let Go
8. Michael Jackson – Rock With You
9. Goo Goo Dolls – Black Balloon
10. The The – Uncertain Smile
11. The Railway Children – In The Meantime
12. Astrud Gilberto – The Girl From Ipanema
13. The Craftsman – Eric Tingstad
14. Martina McBride – Valentine
15. Basia Trzetrzelewska – Time and Tide
16. Sting – When We Dance
17. Force MDs – Tender Love
18. Nat King Cole – I Love You (For Sentimental Reasons)
19. New Order/Joy Division – Ceremony
20. The Church – Under The Milky Way
21. Death Cab For Cutie – Soul Meets Body
22. Ingrid Michaelson – The Way I am
23. Why Georgia – John Meyer
24. Jacintha – I’m In The Mood For Love
25. Laurence Juber – Here Comes The Sun
26. Dire Straits – Your Latest Trick, Why Worry?
27. Gerard Schwarz – Concerto # 21 (Seattle Symphony)
28. Sample Percussion Drum Recording – with mic from 3, 6, 9, and 12 feet
So, with that out of the way, one can see that I brought an arsenal of music genres to test John’s Nao Note II RS. I brought music that, IMHO, specialized in guitar strings, voices, piano, bass, percussion, et al. The first thing that I noticed with these speakers was the air. There was air in the tweeter and midrange in a sense that the sound was open, yet balanced – a true characteristic of open-baffle speakers, reminiscent of my Orion speakers, which I owned for a number of years. But this is more complete in a sense that there’s more “meat to the bones” in the midrange. It is hard to explain, that the speakers are airy and yet the tweeter is almost polite sounding. The sound was very smooth that nothing was sticking out, calling attention to itself in any of the frequency spectrum. I looked at the crossover configuration and it was ruler-flat. John K is big with measurements, and this crowd is all too familiar with them than I am, so that’s that. As I listened to the tracks, for symphony recordings, I would get up and walk around the room and I can tell you that these speakers aren’t your head-in-vise speakers, much like my Gedlee Abbeys. The Nao’s have big soundstage and wide sweet spot, but with enough localization that you could pinpoint instruments as the recording permits. In the bass department, the Note II RS didn’t disappoint, either. They were tight and accurate; especially when I played the sample percussion recording (John requested it again later on just for the heck of it). The bass details were there, but it didn’t have the rumble. I remember my Orions had more rumble, but with the expense of somewhat limited SPL. But this is relative to the listener, so YMMV. With that said, the Nao could play louder without strain, which actually surprised me. I own the Abbeys and these speakers will destroy one’s ears before they strain.
The Note II RS are sickeningly affordable to those who want high-end and accurate sound. I have listened to many very expensive speakers just like the most people here in shows and showrooms, and I know that these can sit proudly amongst the best of them. You have your Wilsons, SF Stradivarius, Adam Audio Tensor Series, MBLs, and the like, and these will certainly keep up with them. The only aspect where these speakers lose is the bling department. Please try and audition them if you can – one will find that they are worth the time and effort. Finally, I’d like to thank John K. for his time and generosity. This man knows his stuff! And he doesn’t make any money at all for his creations! The darn cost of the plans is probably what’s worth to keep his website up! Thanks for reading, guys and may the Almighty bless us all.
- Ian
This first impression has been long due, but because of a new job and being away for a bit, life just got in the way. In any case, I visited John K. at his home because his creation, the Nao Note II RS has piqued my interest for quite some time. We have exchanged emails discussing the Nao II RS when it first came out, but never had the chance to listen to them up until 2.5 weeks ago. John K. is a very cool guy – easy going and very accommodating. My girlfriend and I planned to just stay for an hour to 2 hours, but ended staying for 6 because of great music emanating from his speakers and of course, great company. The room in the basement where the speakers sit wasn’t anechoic, but John did a great job in making it dead quiet. I could tell because my hearing changed a bit (like wearing noise-canceling headphones, but very faint) as we went down and I could distinctly hear my voice, my gf’s, and John’s voice. Looking at John’s equipment, I could tell that he’s been an enthusiast for quite some time. I am only 34, but I could recognize the good amps that he had in his man-cave. I noticed 2 Threshold amps by Mr. Pass, an Audio Research Preamp, and a Marantz CD player, to name a few.
Well, for the audition, we all know that his speakers use 4 channels of amplification on each side, so we weren’t using the Thresholds at all. We used the chip-amps that he assembled from SDS Audio, which are class D. We used the Audio Research Preamp (Solid-State), and the Marantz CD Player. I am not going to list the amount of tracks that we listened to and how the speakers did on every single track, because quite frankly, I am not good at it, and we had music for almost 6 hours. But, I brought enough discs with tracks I specifically compiled to test and address the types of music that I like listening to. So, to those who might be curious, here are some tracks:
1. Andy McKee – Art of Motion, Heather’s Song
2. David Benoit – Kei’s Song, Stages
3. George Benson – The Lady in My Life
4. Julia Fordham – Love Moves in Mysterious Ways
5. George Michael – The First Time Ever I Saw Your Face
6. Patti Austin – If I Believed
7. David Pack (Ambrosia) – I Just Can’t Let Go
8. Michael Jackson – Rock With You
9. Goo Goo Dolls – Black Balloon
10. The The – Uncertain Smile
11. The Railway Children – In The Meantime
12. Astrud Gilberto – The Girl From Ipanema
13. The Craftsman – Eric Tingstad
14. Martina McBride – Valentine
15. Basia Trzetrzelewska – Time and Tide
16. Sting – When We Dance
17. Force MDs – Tender Love
18. Nat King Cole – I Love You (For Sentimental Reasons)
19. New Order/Joy Division – Ceremony
20. The Church – Under The Milky Way
21. Death Cab For Cutie – Soul Meets Body
22. Ingrid Michaelson – The Way I am
23. Why Georgia – John Meyer
24. Jacintha – I’m In The Mood For Love
25. Laurence Juber – Here Comes The Sun
26. Dire Straits – Your Latest Trick, Why Worry?
27. Gerard Schwarz – Concerto # 21 (Seattle Symphony)
28. Sample Percussion Drum Recording – with mic from 3, 6, 9, and 12 feet
So, with that out of the way, one can see that I brought an arsenal of music genres to test John’s Nao Note II RS. I brought music that, IMHO, specialized in guitar strings, voices, piano, bass, percussion, et al. The first thing that I noticed with these speakers was the air. There was air in the tweeter and midrange in a sense that the sound was open, yet balanced – a true characteristic of open-baffle speakers, reminiscent of my Orion speakers, which I owned for a number of years. But this is more complete in a sense that there’s more “meat to the bones” in the midrange. It is hard to explain, that the speakers are airy and yet the tweeter is almost polite sounding. The sound was very smooth that nothing was sticking out, calling attention to itself in any of the frequency spectrum. I looked at the crossover configuration and it was ruler-flat. John K is big with measurements, and this crowd is all too familiar with them than I am, so that’s that. As I listened to the tracks, for symphony recordings, I would get up and walk around the room and I can tell you that these speakers aren’t your head-in-vise speakers, much like my Gedlee Abbeys. The Nao’s have big soundstage and wide sweet spot, but with enough localization that you could pinpoint instruments as the recording permits. In the bass department, the Note II RS didn’t disappoint, either. They were tight and accurate; especially when I played the sample percussion recording (John requested it again later on just for the heck of it). The bass details were there, but it didn’t have the rumble. I remember my Orions had more rumble, but with the expense of somewhat limited SPL. But this is relative to the listener, so YMMV. With that said, the Nao could play louder without strain, which actually surprised me. I own the Abbeys and these speakers will destroy one’s ears before they strain.
The Note II RS are sickeningly affordable to those who want high-end and accurate sound. I have listened to many very expensive speakers just like the most people here in shows and showrooms, and I know that these can sit proudly amongst the best of them. You have your Wilsons, SF Stradivarius, Adam Audio Tensor Series, MBLs, and the like, and these will certainly keep up with them. The only aspect where these speakers lose is the bling department. Please try and audition them if you can – one will find that they are worth the time and effort. Finally, I’d like to thank John K. for his time and generosity. This man knows his stuff! And he doesn’t make any money at all for his creations! The darn cost of the plans is probably what’s worth to keep his website up! Thanks for reading, guys and may the Almighty bless us all.
- Ian
Thanks for the comments on your visit. I enjoyed having you and your girl friend come by.
Just to make a couple of things clear, the amps used were the Class D Audio CDA 254 modules, not the SDS 254. The modules were sent back to Class A Audio for gain matching and a tune up since they were purchased at different times. Also, the system listened to was using the Peerless XLX 830452 woofer option. However, at the levels we were playing the woofer option really made no difference.
As for what's cooking, I'm out of the kitchen. No plans for anything new.
Just to make a couple of things clear, the amps used were the Class D Audio CDA 254 modules, not the SDS 254. The modules were sent back to Class A Audio for gain matching and a tune up since they were purchased at different times. Also, the system listened to was using the Peerless XLX 830452 woofer option. However, at the levels we were playing the woofer option really made no difference.
As for what's cooking, I'm out of the kitchen. No plans for anything new.
They are pretty good Dave. A little finicky about the impedance at the top end. If I connect the tweeters in parallel the impedance drop pretty low and the amps roll off the top end significantly. But if the tweeters are connected is series, giving an 8 ohm load, the Class D amps are fine. I just have to increase the gain in the minidsp tweeter crossover to compensate.
Each amp consists of a CDA 254L kit (amp + power supply) and a second 254 amp board, $370, plus case and jacks.
The AdCom amps are maybe a little better down low, but not a lot. Bang for the buck the entire setup with miniDSP and Calss D Audio amps works pretty well.
There are other ways to go. As you know JP went with the Najda dsp unit and seems to be happy with that. Amps? What ever floats your boat.
I've wondered about quality of amps. As you know, I'm using the old Kenwood KM-X1 for my setups. They're only rated 100W into 6 (the Kenwood rating provided) in multi-channel mode (130W into 8 stereo). They even say don't run into less than 6 as it "will cause the malfunction of the amplifier". So far, 4 ohms loads have yet to cause a "malfunction". 🙂 I do wonder if I'm limiting the system using these, though I haven't detected any problems at the levels at which I listen. They are "THX rated", so I suspect that the current capability is probably better than average for the rating. It does have a pair of transformers as well. The bottom end is where I would suspect it to be limiting if at all.
As I think of it, using these with the UE with 6 channels, it is still just a stereo system, so I suppose the 130W rating is more accurate in my usage. I've got the maintenance manual with schematics. The channels are all identical.
I hope that you'll be able to bring your Notes to DIY NE again.
Dave
As I think of it, using these with the UE with 6 channels, it is still just a stereo system, so I suppose the 130W rating is more accurate in my usage. I've got the maintenance manual with schematics. The channels are all identical.
I hope that you'll be able to bring your Notes to DIY NE again.
Dave
Anytime, Juhazi. I thought I'd spread the word because John's speakers are excellent, IMHO, regardless of the price.
John, obviously there is hardly any room for improvement!
But, seems like BG Neo3 production is ceased, availability is close to zero now. Do you have any insight about this? Perhaps you should start thinkin' 'bout a recipe for Note SE... I must say that there is something indisputable with Neo3, low distortion and seamless backside radiation?
But, seems like BG Neo3 production is ceased, availability is close to zero now. Do you have any insight about this? Perhaps you should start thinkin' 'bout a recipe for Note SE... I must say that there is something indisputable with Neo3, low distortion and seamless backside radiation?
You mean you won't strap them onto the top of the 308? I thought that the motor cover was flat enough to do that. 😀 Just wrap a tarp over the system to keep it dry.
Dave
Dave
Dave,
Like John said I use my NaO with other electronics then John, You saw the Najda DSP last DIY and I could not give them a word of complain.... You also eared the amplifier that power them, A few years ago I brought a 2 channels integrated amplifier that use the ClassDaudio boards,
But my amplifier are different then those John use. He use the CDA 254 and I use the SDS 254. They came out latter and are supposed to be better board, for what it's worth... I could drive them with 2 ohms load with no problem, and one thing that is cool is that they have adjustable gain with a pot, so you could dial the perfect gain to suit your need. I personally found the right value and replace the pot with a fix resistor.
As for the sound I think they will wipe you kenwood out of the room... I had a Adcom for a few weeks they sound similar but the SDS-254 win again. More clarity in the mid, better high, and the bass is as good as the Adcom. But they are not cheap it cost me around 800$ for 8 channels + the supply.
Maybe I'll tried to bring them next time if John bring is NaO, I surely won't bring loudspeaker again with all the trouble that U.S custom agents gave me last time!!! But I think an amplifier and a Najda DSP could be easier to get pass the border....
J-P
Like John said I use my NaO with other electronics then John, You saw the Najda DSP last DIY and I could not give them a word of complain.... You also eared the amplifier that power them, A few years ago I brought a 2 channels integrated amplifier that use the ClassDaudio boards,
But my amplifier are different then those John use. He use the CDA 254 and I use the SDS 254. They came out latter and are supposed to be better board, for what it's worth... I could drive them with 2 ohms load with no problem, and one thing that is cool is that they have adjustable gain with a pot, so you could dial the perfect gain to suit your need. I personally found the right value and replace the pot with a fix resistor.
As for the sound I think they will wipe you kenwood out of the room... I had a Adcom for a few weeks they sound similar but the SDS-254 win again. More clarity in the mid, better high, and the bass is as good as the Adcom. But they are not cheap it cost me around 800$ for 8 channels + the supply.
Maybe I'll tried to bring them next time if John bring is NaO, I surely won't bring loudspeaker again with all the trouble that U.S custom agents gave me last time!!! But I think an amplifier and a Najda DSP could be easier to get pass the border....
J-P
Back in 2011 I bought a SDS-254 to see how it would sound with my Acoustat 2+2s. It would not work very well, protection kicking in often. Classdaudio suggested an SDS-4 that would be stable down to below 2 ohm. It still didn't work, but back then I think he said the SDS-254 was not rated down to 2 ohms and that's why he suggested the SDS-4. I think I paid about $30 extra to exchange my SDS-254 for the SDS-4 board. I use it for a home theater setup now, still sounds good! If you are buying a new SDS-254 to drive loads that might drop to 2 or lower R, you might want to ask about the SDS-4 and see if it's a better match. This was 2011 though, things may have changed since then... Sorry for the OT posting,
He did not as I dismantled that speaker some time ago. We did spend a few minutes at the end of the day with the NaO II RS though.